GOTM 53 Spoiler

[Peaster]

Certainly not an earth map ! I don't want to reveal too much even in the spoiler, so I'll just say I liked the map. It will be a challenge for the early conquest players to figure out a clever strategy for it (I never really did, though my game went OK anyway). I played a hybrid EC/GOTM style and finished between 1AD and 500AD, with 11 wonders and oodles of cities.

 

[ferenginar]

Even activating cheat mode and show entire map does not reveal too much. What a waste of time. Obviously I won't be submitting this one, such a shame after running out of time to complete GOTM52, going to have to wait another month.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

Here is a description of the map. If you think this will spoil the fun of the game for you, stop reading now.

The world (120x75) consists of 7 islands each shaped like a ) stretching north south. The islands are to east/west of one another and far enough not to see one another. The first one, which is home to the white civs, is only large enough for 4-5 (full) cities and then they get progressively larger. There is more distance between islands 1 &7 than there is between any other adjacent ones. Each island is home to one of the 7 civ colors/groups.

The islands are far enough apart that a trireme can not reach one from the other in one turn. All islands offer plenty of good terrain. There is little usable land outside of these islands.

This game is a great challenge to conquest players and a good challenge for peaceful ones. What is different about this game compared to a randomly generated one:
1. Limited number of huts. Russians get 2. It is very unlikely that by the time one makes it to other islands there are any huts left.
2. Before Lighthouse peaceful players can only build 4-5 cities and ICS ones less than 10.
3. Very limited sites for peaceful expansion after Lighthouse: One 4 whale island and a couple of 3-4 special polar sites on tundra.
4. Good terrain allows AI to take off pretty quickly. All AI starting locations are 2-4 specials.
5. Isolation prevents early wars. No one gets wiped out by another in a trivial fashion. Also the AI is less willing to ally in this situation.

 

[Peaster]

4. Good terrain allows AI to take off pretty quickly. All AI starting locations are 2-4 specials.

Yes. The Carthaginians built about 11 cities before I got to them in approx 1AD. I refused them monarchy the whole game, but am not sure that kept them weak.

I figured out most of the pattern you describe by building MPE and getting 3-4 AI maps. It would have been helpful to know about the restarts, since that affects my conquest strategy - if they are ON, I try to kill off the first civ early, and I definitely need MPE. But I did these things anyway, so I guess it didn't matter too much.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

It would have been helpful to know about the restarts, since that affects my conquest strategy - if they are ON, I try to kill off the first civ early, and I definitely need MPE. But I did these things anyway, so I guess it didn't matter too much.

Even though restarts are on, because of the map, I bet few if anyone will see a civ respawned. The game tries to start a new civ in a remote unoccupied location and on this map there are no such areas.

By the way, I am very impressed with your finish time. Before 500 is unbelievable.

 

[SideshowBob]

I kind of figured it was you, Ali, who hade done this game, it was so obviously an "early landing map". Only enough room for a couple of cities in the beginning that makes (at least me) even the leaziest of players focus on trade an micro management for tech:s...

I have yet to finnish the game, but I can already conclude that I think this will be one of my fastest landings. Unfortunately not before 250 turns, but probably closer to that than 300. A lot thanks to the map and AI start positions. So I hjave that magical 250 turn game yet to be played, but overall a very educational game

to Ali!

and to Peaster, at 500 I was happy to have my traderoutes established, lol, so that was really an impressive conquest!

 

[Peaster]

Even though restarts are on, because of the map, I bet few if anyone will see a civ respawned. The game tries to start a new civ in a remote unoccupied location and on this map there are no such areas.

Well, I had quite a few respawns - about 10. The three largest islands were each big enough for a civilization + my colonies + a remote area. I don't think any of us knows exactly how respawning works. Sometimes I get 15-20 of them and then maybe just 1-2 even on the same map. It does not seem to follow a normal distribution like you might expect. So, a conquest player can easily get screwed.

I liked the map because it presented a clear navigational puzzle. I dealt with it OK, by planting colonies on the bigger islands as soon as possible, any way possible. I suspect there is a simple elegant solution involving ship chains, but I didn't find it. Maybe Grigor can! Where's Grigor?

 

[URUWASHI]

I have a question .......In my game , on or about 1800 BC ,I had a update " Fench civ destroyed by Barbarians .." Two turns after..I got ..." Viking Civilization destroyed by Indians " a turn after that I got " German civilization destroyed by Barbarians "....
I built Marco Polo , the Wall , the Lighthouse and the LIbrary by 100 AD ..and Blue... is not there ..Do I have to start the game again because the Blue ( French , German , Viking are gone and Im playing against one oppenent less )?
Obviosuly I have an edge , I am playing against 1 civ less , so how that works ??
Am I playing a " legal " game ?????
Usually BLUE is a tough opponent .......conquering GREEN and VIOLET was before 1000.....( In fact I did just left one city left from each ..hate the respawning ..)that leaves Yellow , Light Blue and Orange .......( again Yellow has one city , and so does light blue .......) and is pretty early for me.......shall I go for the Quicky Conquest ( I hate that ........!!!! )
HOw that works , should I restart againg since One civ as been eliminated from the race ?????


Peace !

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

I have a question .......In my game , on or about [Date deleted] ,I had a update " [Blue] civ destroyed by Barbarians .." Two turns after..I got ..." [Another Blue]Civilization destroyed by [a different AI civ]" a turn after that I got " [3rd blue civ]civilization destroyed by Barbarians "....

I built Marco Polo...[Spoilers deleted]... and Blue... is not there ..Do I have to start the game again because the Blue [Deleted] are gone and Im playing against one oppenent less )?
Obviosuly I have an edge , I am playing against 1 civ less , so how that works ??
Am I playing a " legal " game ?????
Usually BLUE is a tough opponent .......

[spoilers deleted]

HOw that works , should I restart againg since One civ as been eliminated from the race ?????

First, please keep details of your game (dates, opponents, etc) to the spoiler thread. Either ask the question without giving so many specifics, or if the details are critical to the question, post it in the other thread.

You're fine with blue being gone. When Restarts are on, they only go on for a limited amount of time. They don't restart indefinitely. The number of restarts for a particular color varies but there are a few factors that seem to influence how many you get. For example, there is a point in the calendar well into the AD years when they just stop altogether.

If you look at past spoiler threads, you will see that even when restarts are on people often win by conquest. This wouldn't be possible unless the civs stopped respawning at some point. This applies whether it was you, or someone else who destroyed them. It's a normal part of the game.

Moderator Action: Posts moved to spoiler thread

 

[ElephantU]

This one is not bad for OCC. I moved eastward to check out the 4-special spot there and decided it was decent enough to settle down. The 4th Whale could not be used until I built a boat to uncover it, but I was keeping the city small anyway till I built Marco Polo and got alliances so it was not a problem. I got an Archer and 25g from the huts, so I did Size1 Settler, which got me to size 3 pretty quickly. Then I ramped down food in favor of trade and production, keeping my 2nd NONE Settler irrigating the land for future growth. By AD1 I was size 12 (I put off Sanitation a while), with 3 +9 trade routes to Babylon (nice location for that city, BTW!), 4 Wonders, and 6 Enthusiastic allies pumping gold to me every 2-3 turns. For a short while Dye was a free commodity, but Salt soon replaced it after I was given Pottery rather than a gift of gold. The AI has gotten into a few wars, but are not building enough ships for bribing. One problem with the extra-large western AI island - it make ship-chaining around it prohibitively expensive for an OCC. Overall I'd say I'm not doing too badly with this setup.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

This one is not bad for OCC. I moved eastward to check out the 4-special spot there and decided it was decent enough to settle down. The 4th Whale could not be used until I built a boat to uncover it, but I was keeping the city small anyway till I built Marco Polo and got alliances so it was not a problem. I got an Archer and 25g from the huts, so I did Size1 Settler, which got me to size 3 pretty quickly. Then I ramped down food in favor of trade and production, keeping my 2nd NONE Settler irrigating the land for future growth. By AD1 I was size 12 (I put off Sanitation a while), with 3 +9 trade routes to Babylon (nice location for that city, BTW!), 4 Wonders, and 6 Enthusiastic allies pumping gold to me every 2-3 turns. For a short while Dye was a free commodity, but Salt soon replaced it after I was given Pottery rather than a gift of gold. The AI has gotten into a few wars, but are not building enough ships for bribing. One problem with the extra-large western AI island - it make ship-chaining around it prohibitively expensive for an OCC. Overall I'd say I'm not doing too badly with this setup.

I agree... this is actually a pretty decent OCC setup. From the analysis you posted, I knew we had Ocean access, 2 whales and a spice with one other whale bonus so the only thing that would have derailed OCC was some unfortunate mountain squares. Turns out it's a very nice piece of terrain for an OCC, with only one square unable to produce trade once the settler is done. Even at full production, it only needs 2 non-trade squares.

I don't have notes with me, but I think at 1ad I was around size 20, but had not yet established any trade routes so you may have had as much trade as I did. Because I was late with the routes, I missed most of the commodity changes and had very few opportunities to deliver anything for most of the game.

I don't know why I always forget about using a size 1 settler to get to size 3 quickly when there is silk. This is probably a great location to do that with the 3 nice specials available from the start. I got a horse and 50g from the huts, but sat on the cash for a millenium or two until I was able to put it towards a library. I went Early Republic with writing as my first off-path tech.

 

[ElephantU]

Ah - Early Republic vs Celebrating Monarchy! This should be interesting... I put off Sanitation and Medicine till the AD years, but built LightHouse to get earlier trade routes. Now that my city is size 25 I'm doing a tech every other turn, with sliders shifting toward taxes on the second turn. That plus the occasional gift is permitting a caravan every other turn. Coal and Salt are free commodities, but I'm not getting them overseas fast enough due to lack of shipping.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

I went Early Republic with writing as my first off-path tech.

I'm surprised nobody has caught me on the fact that Writing is not off-path to Republic. Oops!

 

[la fayette]

I'm surprised nobody has caught me on the fact that Writing is not off-path to Republic. Oops!

One more proof that you really are an enchanter

 

[SideshowBob]

...should have known... that things looked to good to be true... when I was about start constructing my SS, I was attacked by an extremely hostile bunch of AI:s. I had but a few cities so I ad to put the SS on hold - and conquer most of the world ... Anyway, I was determined to land my SS, but it was no earlier than in 1925 which I suppose is alright for my level of playing, but I was disapointed at any rate. Submission is finally taken care of so a replay awaits, but seeing how things develop I'm not sure I can land much earlier. No matter how I try I always seem to get carried away and try to carry out my megalomaniac plans at the end of the game. Can't have both - conquest and early landing - but I suppose I haven't realized that quite yet

 

[ElephantU]

Tech gifting kept the AI civs Enthusiastic through most of my game. I slowed down the gifts as I approached SpaceFlight, and stopped making contact to ask for gold or maps. In the Modern Era Silver and Dye were free commodities, so I bribed several AI and Barb ships to make a chain 2/3 of the way to France, which had good payouts. The Babylonians built Babylon up to size 12, so my trade routes there stuck throughout the game. I missed launching my ship before 1750 by a few turns, but then started gathering up wonders (first one: Eiffel, cemented AI attitudes back into the Enthusiastic range again) and a couple Future Techs. Very good results for an interesting setup. Kudos to Ali for the challenging scenario.

 

[mr. Y]

I don't know why I always forget about using a size 1 settler to get to size 3 quickly when there is silk.

What do you mean by this?

 

[Carrot]

I don't know why I always forget about using a size 1 settler to get to size 3 quickly when there is silk.

What do you mean by this?

To build a settler in your first, and only, city while at size 1 will not force a disband of the city. This allows you to get an early settler without the negative effect of city size reduction. If you time this so that your city fills the food box and grows on the next turn, you can then rejoin the settler for a size 3 city. This requires micromanagement of shields and food. For this purpose silk is an excellent special.

 

[mr. Y]

To build a settler in your first, and only, city while at size 1 will not force a disband of the city. This allows you to get an early settler without the negative effect of city size reduction. If you time this so that your city fills the food box and grows on the next turn, you can then rejoin the settler for a size 3 city. This requires micromanagement of shields and food. For this purpose silk is an excellent special.

Thanks... but what an EXTREMELY powerful exploit!
I'll put this knowledge to good use...

 

[TheRyk]

Completely spoiled my game. Tough one, really. Had not expected this degree of isolation. Built several wonders, approximately 9, including Lighthouse, Great Library, Magellan's Expedition. But when I finally found the greater continents, I had no chance. My settlement in South India was very soon turned over by Chartaginian revolt. Sent a diplomat and got it back, then the Carthaginians destroyed it. Alliance with India was not of much profit, Egyptian allies privided me with newest military tech. So I could at least defend myself against Babylonian invaders and cause some trouble on their island. Gave up in the early 20th century, after Egypt and Babylon discovered Spaceflight, when I had not even Mass Production... Had 8 cities and 10 Million citizens or so and was third last on the graph after finishing. Evil! Hope to do better next game.