GOTM 55 first spoiler - entering middle ages

[Kwibus]

Every thing was progressing nicely till about 600 bc
I had captured three british city's while only losing two units
however then things went bad a lone warrior managed to kill my spearman and capture one of my city's and london culture flipped back
ok i thought just a stroke of bad luck i recaptured my city and a few turns later i recaptured london but now it has culture flipped again
I have lost more units from culture flipping than from real combat

do you also have problems with culture flipping?

 

[ainwood]

do you also have problems with culture flipping?

In high-risk cities, its often better to leave zero units in them. In the early game, if it flips, the defender will probably be a spearman - so leave a unit or two next to the (empty) city that is capable of taking-out a spearman (vet or elite horseman / swordsman). Once you've completely eliminated a civ, then the flip chance reduces to zero.

You can keep an eye on the culture flip chance using CivAssist or the CrpSuite.

 

[Htadus]

@Abegweit
Thank you for the class. I did a practice run and found out all the mistakes I did with the Settler Factory and I see what you are talking about the corruption at RCP3. Too late for this game but will be using this from now on. Also I tried tech trading and learned it is possible to be just behind the Civ's.

@ainwood
I think I am going to need to use your advise to Kwibus to deal with massive Egyption culture in this game. Thanks.

 

[Kwibus]

Thanks for the tip i'll try next week when i can play again

 

[Crakie]

My AA was pretty similar to Abegweit's, but he executed it better than me In particular, I wasn't brave enough to attack with only 12 horsies: I waited until I was rated 'strong' with about 20 of them.

As soon as my exploring warrior stumbled upon London, which was so close to our capitol, the strategy was a no-brainer to me. I settled RCP3 and 6, each city building a warrior, then a worker and then barracks while the capitol kept pumping settlers until the local area was filled. I was lucky to meet another civ pretty quickly, which the english took quite a while to meet. As a result, my math and currency monopolies worked out very well.

I had traded masonry for pottery to the english, even though I had only a few turns left on max research. I did not consider it at the time, but this is why the English built the Pyramids for me in the end

The war against England went smoothly and the continent was mine, except for a few guests from other parts of the world. I got a GL, which I also used for the FP in London, and another one cleaning up the last english cities off the continent, which I am saving.

I entered the MA 590 BC as a republic with 21 cities, pop 70, controlling the Pyramids and the Great Lighthouse. I knew the entire world, and was already ahead in tech.

 

[Twonky]

Since I thought we would be alone on our landmass, I settled Paris 1 SW to get better terrain for the first ring. In hindsight, founding on the spot would have been stronger with the English beeing so close to us.
Paris then built Settler (3350), Worker (3150), Granary (2510) and 4-turn settlers starting in 2510. New towns were placed at RCP 3 and 6 (which seems to be quite popular in this game) and started to train MP-Warriors, then Barracks and units with occasional workers or settlers to control size.
My research-path was apparently a bit different. Like most others I started with Pottery but traded it for Masonry when I met the English to help with attitude and enable them to build the Pyramids. Luckily they did so in 1500, making another civ cascade to the completion of the Oracle and the Colossus on the next turn. After that I went for the Republic straight away, ignoring Maths. I am not sure whether this way was profitable, but it took me to the MA in 730, beeing in Republic since 750 after 6 turns of anarchy, which seems to be okay.
So far I have only had a minor war with the English, starting in 1275. I used Archers to make space for my ring cities and somewhat reduce the cultural pressure. Unfortunately I did not take London yet and made peace in 900, gaining a tech and an island town from it. Right now, London is building the Great Library, so maybe I´ll wait some more before I strike again...

QSC-stats:
13 towns with 34 citizens, 1 Granary and 5 Barracks
2 Settlers, 11 Workers, 5 Slaves, 6 Warriors, 6 Archers, 2 Spearmen, 7 Horsemen and 1 Galley
missing the AA-techs Construction, Maths, Currency, Polytheism, Monarchy and Republic, which is due in 4 turns

Spoiler 1000 BC screenshot :

 

[Chamnix]

Open class, going for conquest (which I’m terrible at, but I have to keep trying).

Opening moves - worker W to road and irrigate the cow, settler SW to found Paris. Research set to Pottery at maximum. Build warrior, settler, granary, then 4 turn settlers.

I had picked out nice town locations at RCP 4, but Nottingham was founded near my proposed second town site, so there was no RCP 4 site that would get me the cow to the W-SW without fighting England culturally (a clearly hopeless battle) so I changed RCP 3 to get the cow. RCP 3 sites generally built barracks; RCP 6 started catapults, but it started looking like they wouldn’t be necessary so those towns changed to barracks (or boats) eventually.

In my game England built the Colossus – maybe not as bad as the Great Wall, but it means they had their Golden Age.

In 1250 BC, with an English settler pair in my territory, I goad Liz into declaring for some quick war happiness and a couple slaves. During the war I captured their incense town and raze and replace another town (it didn’t fit my RCP) before agreeing to peace in 1025 BC for another town and some loose change. Liz continued to try to send settler pairs through my territory so I could get Liz to break our peace anytime I wanted instead of having to wait the 20 turns.

QSC Stats:

16 towns
40 citizens
1 settler
15 native workers
7 slaves
2 regular warriors
6 veteran archers
2 elite archers
1 veteran spearman
2 veteran horsemen
2 catapults
1 regular galley

The tech pace seemed very slow. I went for monopoly techs (Mathematics, Literature, Currency, Polytheism – and I had to do Horseback Riding myself), then periodically had to turn research off to wait for the AI because I didn’t want to duplicate their research.

In 850 BC, I completed Polytheism and entered the Middle Ages by myself with monopolies on Literature and Polytheism waiting for someone to research Republic for me.

 

[azzaman333]

England built the Great Wall in my game..... 10 turns before my planned attack. So i already had a large army of catapults...

 

[klarius]

predator

I settled sw. Build 2 warriors, then granary (bought pottery from England).
Found England and Egypt with my first warrior.
England researched writing early and my contact was sold to Japan and Greece by 2390 BC. Nice trading opportunities .

Settler factory was running nicely and I had 5 cities, when Liz attacked in 2110BC.
Because of a typical tactical AI masterpiece (Liz came with only two reg warriors first and attacked over the river) , I didn't lose any cities and had also a nice kill ratio.
But Paris was pillaged quite a bit and pop-rushed spears are also not good for development.

Made peace in 1750BC and even got a village in the treaty.

1550BC Egypt landed some warriors next to this village. I had quite some gpt payments towards them. Boot order and she declared.
I couldn't defend this village so I gifted it to the Vikings (it was anyways not in the location I wanted a city) and allied them. Egypt razed it and I then picked off the warriors in the next few turns.

1350BC we get another phony war with Japan. Who needs luxes, when you have war happiness from two sides .

All this lead to a lousy (for this power location) QSC with only 10 towns.

But science went fine .
I only researched math @ min and literature @ max (tried a min run on poly, but that failed).
But I traded like crazy.
1100BC I bought republic and revolted for 5 turns anarchy.
1000BC I bought construction and entered MA with all techs except monarchy.

I'm building horses and wait for a good opportunity to trick Liz into declaring on me.

Bad development, but good science. Smells like a diplomatic victory.

 

[tR1cKy]

klarius, you have competition. How much serious is yet to be seen. I went out of AA in 925BC, still in despotism, with Republic unknown, but with the GLib in my hands thanks to a leader. Currently i'm still in the BC with a good number of MA techs already known. I'll post the AA spoiler this evening.

 

[Kulko]

Conquest, PTW going for Domination

Since this was my first deity game, I decided to take it easy and go for conquest calls only. Probably didn't need it in this food rich start, but of course it helped a lot to speed up my settler factory.

I got so caught up in the smooth running of the game, that i forgot the turn log completely, so you have to take this from memory.

Met England farily soon, but not gainign any techs. Fortunately I saw a glimpse of an egyptian warrior from a hilltop, while england didn't forquite a while, so I was able to trade myself in to the lead by being tech broker between them. Started the first War with about 6 Hm, probably a bit premature. I took 2 English cities, but afterwards my armies were a bit gassed, so I took a 20 turns leave.
Unfortunately I only learned afterwards, that waiting the full time wasn't required, but when it was over, the english core fell in one sweet strike netting me the pyramids and the Great Lighthouse. After taking another peace, for new techs and 2 cities, I led two mostly phony wars with egypt and the vikings, clearing them from my continent.

I think I entered MA first, although the scientific Civs were not far behind.

Next steps will be the removal of the last English enclaves, together with the landing on the Alpha continent. Then some sweet ROP rapes, and easy Cav Victory by 1500 AD.

 

[tR1cKy]

predator ptw - goal is diplo (hope to not mess up things with AS attitude, i have bad precedents)

Worker moves on the moo and spots a possible central location. Settler moves NW-W and founds Paris in 3900BC. Research is set to Writing at minimum. The initial build order is warrior x 3 -> settler -> warrior -> granary. The English are met very early and they start immediately to be troublesome. We beat them for 1 turn in founding city 2 on the coastal + river hill SE of Paris, and this victory turns out to be very important: borders are too near for the AS to found a city, so we're able to snatch a town right on the incense a bit later. An English pair shows up around 2000BC. Our military is simply too scarce to boot them out so we let them pass undisturbed. They build a city in the north-east tundra, in a place that prevents further expansion in that direction.

Cities are built at a mixed 4-4.5 ring, with the perfect ring placement being sacrificed in favour of better city locations. Techs are traded advantageously despite the English completed Writing in the same turns as us Egypt don't have it so we are able to complete the 1st tier and get also Iron Working.

The next pick is Mathematics, that we complete undisturbed, but before trading it we buy Map Making for gpt, poprush a galley then go discovering the Japanese that were already visible with their border, but failed to show up since then. A trade fest follows, and we end up with Mysticism, Wheel, Horse Riding, Philosophy, all contacts and a fairly comprehensive world map.

A few turns later another english pair shows up. In 1200BC the option to leave or declare is available and we lure them into declaring war. A bit of war happiness is welcome, and there are enough archers and catapults to dispose of the intruders. A pair of elite promotions are achieved - this turned out to be very important later.

Next research is Currency, with Code of Laws being bought in the meantime, but once again the monopoly tech project fails, with Egypt and Greece discovering it in the same turn as us and with the lone Japanese to have gone for Construction. No one has researched Republic so far and we decide to try for it at max spending.

Polytheism and Literature are bought from the Vikings, but Construction is still untradeable despite we can offer Japan 4 techs and 25 gpt. Meanwhile troops are amassed for an attack to the south-western english cities, where 3 more ring town could be built. A small stack is maintained in the southern incense city to control a wave of intruders, and an elite victory scored there in 975BC earns the 1st leader of the game. Research on Republic is scrapped and we rush immediately the Great Library in a border city. In 925BC Construction is learned that way and we're finally into the Middle Ages, with 9 cities, a settler ready to found the 10th, and an attack in English lands to be finally delivered next turn.

London has the Pyramids, and England is in control of 2 important luxuries i don't have, so the obvious goal is to claim the english territory, but i don't know if i'll build my 2nd core there, Japan could be a better option. We'll see in the future.

Tech log:

3900BC: Alphabet, Masonry (prerequisites);
3400BC: Pottery, Bronze (trade, England);
2030BC: Writing (self research); Iron Working, Warrior Code, Ceremonial Burial (trade, Egypt);
1500BC: Math (self), Map Making (trade, Egypt);
1450BC: Mysticism (trade, Japan); Wheel (trade, Greece); Horse Riding (trade, Egypt); Philosophy (trade, England);
1300BC: Code of Laws (trade, Greece);
1050BC: Currency (self);
1000BC: Polytheism, Literature (trade, Scandinavia);
-925BC: Construction (GLib);

Meetings:

3550BC: England;
2070BC: Egypt;
1450BC: Japan, Greece, Scandinavia;

Cities:

3900BC: Paris;
3050BC: Orleans;
2230BC: Lyons;
2030BC: Rheims;
1950BC: Tours;
1675BC: Marseilles;
1250BC: Chartres;
1050BC: Avignon;
1000BC: Besancon;

Our empire in 925BC:

 

[King Of America]

..and we hope it will have 20K

Conquest class

After taking forever to win the GOTM with 100K, I finally got to play this one. I took the conquest bonus and am trying to go for 20K (!).

I settled on site and founded Orleans 3 NE (hill across river). I went for CB early and built Temple early and then Oracle (just barely, I think).

In 650 BC, I have Temple, Library, Coll., Oracle, and the GL. I'm doing a Palace pre-build for what I hope to be the Hanging Gardens.

Going for 20K hurt the RBX and Liz is crowding me, but I have horses and she doesn't so I might go for a bit of Jabbowock-chasing.

Because I can't win a fastest time award--no complaint, without the bonus settler I would not even have thought of trying this stunt-- I may start building units in Orleans as well. There's no doubt that 20K requires a strong cultural AA--Liz is treating me decently, I mean I'm bribing her properly, but I'm still going need to finish 20K before someone goes to space. Of course, that's a ways away.

 

[PaperBeetle]

Like What klarius Said
klarius said we should settle SW, so that's what I do. First build is an axe to have a look around, then it is on to the granary; although I start research on Pots, the axe meets the English almost immediately, and I trade Masonry for Pots and their cash. With the worker watering the moo, then the wines, then mining beegees, the granary completes in 3050bc, and my 4-turn factory is running. It operates between sizes 4 and 6, and is expected to produce 15 settlers during the QSC.

Ring Planning
I start settling my first ring at RCP3. The second ring will be RCP6. Furthermore, my FP is going to go into the powerful NW town, Orleans, built among the beegees of the northern river. So the towns around Orleans are also arranged at RCP3, to leave it with good rings once I jump the palace out of Paris. With their predator-fast start, the English have taken the capital-RCP6 site by the incense, and are obstructing a good FP-RCP3 site west of Orleans, but these places will come back to me in time.

A Trader's Research Path
I am trying to get to the medieval quickly, so after ditching my research on Pots, I head for Maths. This comes through in 2270bc, and is traded for War Code and Bronze. England also has Ironwork, so I expect they are working on something like Writing. I go straight on up the tree to Currency. It may be expensive, but my empire is growing rapidly, so I think I'll get it in good time. By 1870bc, Liz has Writing, and I can see that she knows another nation, although I have nothing to buy the contact with.

Some Bad Tech Choices
Of course, this being a high level game, the AI will trade my contact around anyway; Liz sells out in 1550bc, which is handy for 1525bc, when my research on Currency finishes. I trade for Writing, Ironwork and Mysticism, while managing to hold Currency back from the off-continent civ. Next turn they get Polytheism, but sell it to the English for Currency. If only they had taken Mapping from the English, I could have had that too. Never mind. I set research to Laws, which was a strangely weak choice. I can't think why I didn't go straight for Literature; England gets Laws one turn before me.

Some Good Tech Luck
I finish my own work on Laws in 1325bc, trade it for Polytheism, and start Literature. I still don't have Mapping, so cannot get out and meet anyone else, even though I can see new borders over the sea. Liz is not so unfortunate; she has two more contacts by 1275bc. Assisted by my completion of Literature in 1125bc, the AI have a big trading round which leaves some of them in the medieval, and sees my contact details go further around the world. A couple of turns of tech dealing later, I find myself in the medieval also. The date is 1050bc. This is the first time I was ever medieval during the QSC .

QSC Stats
14 towns with 43 citizens and 133 tiles.
87 food in the bin, 166 shields in the box, 116g in the treasury.
1 granary, 1 FP, 3 temples, 4 barracks.
2 settlers, 9 workers, 5 axes (reg), 7 archers (vet), 6 horses (vet).
All ancient techs except Republic and Monarchy, 2 beakers towards Engineering.
5 contacts, no embassies, up-to-date w map.

 

[AlanH]

@PaperBeetle: Why do you focus on rings round the FP? The rank corruption for a town that is nearer to the FP than it is to the Palace is only related to how many towns are nearer to the Palace than it is to the FP. So rings are not relevant round the FP - you need 'disks'.

 

[PaperBeetle]

Well, mainly becasue I just like rings .
It's true that in general these towns don't need to be so neatly arranged, although in this case the FP site is so great that it doesn't deserve to be crowded by RCP2s... I could have allowed towns at RCP4 I suppose, but I don't tend to build that loosely early in the game.

 

[Abegweit]

Actually, RCP does have a purpose around the FP. Let's say you have your palace set up RCP 4 and 7. Then it makes a lot of sense to build RCP3 around your FP because all cities will be closer to it than any is to the Palace. The second ring around the FP should in a band at distance 4-6.

 

[AlanH]

Actually, RCP does have a purpose around the FP. Let's say you have your palace set up RCP 4 and 7. Then it makes a lot of sense to build RCP3 around your FP because all cities will be closer to it than any is to the Palace. The second ring around the FP should in a band at distance 4-6.

The most frequent situation is a palace jump to an AI capital. The AI tends to build its first ring at radius 5.x, and it's often worth while to develop a ring at that radius. Then all towns at radius 5.x, 4.x or 3.x from your FP get the same rank as the new Palace's first ring. Their rank is driven by the number of towns *closer* to the Palace. The second band would be at 5.x and greater.

In the situation you describe, with a palace first ring at radius 4.x, the FP's rank 1 towns can be at radius 3.x or 4.x, so a fixed radius first ring is still not necessary. The second band would be at 5.x and greater, not 4.x.

 

[Abegweit]

In the situation you describe, with a palace first ring at radius 4.x, the FP's rank 1 towns can be at radius 3.x or 4.x, so a fixed radius first ring is still not necessary. The second band would be at 5.x and greater, not 4.x.

I thought that the rule was that a city had to be "closer" to the FP than another city is to the Palace. This is good info. Thanks

 

[AlanH]

Your thoughts are as valid as mine ... if not more so

PS My reasoning is that rank corruption is determined by the number of cities *closer* to the palace, as demonstrated by RCP. The rank corruption bug is that the city's distance is its distance to the closer of Palace and FP, but the count of *closer* cities uses only the distance from the Palace.