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Gotm 60 Spoiler

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Game of the Month' started by golem, Jan 6, 2006.

  1. golem

    golem Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2001
    Messages:
    210
    Location:
    Praha, Czech rep.
    I have sterted as Non alligned and decided the conquest. The faster the better. It will not be so fast as spacerace, but more funny.

    One year report:
    15 cities conquered, all missing Techs stolen. I am at war with everybody, but Europe (allied). When I had more units prepared for attack in one city, Indian or Chinese nuked me. Bastards. :mad: I received first warnning that Global temperature is rising. So I clean enviroment and fight.

    Great game - thans for creator!!:lol: :lol:
     
  2. URUWASHI

    URUWASHI Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    213
    Location:
    West Coast
    Here is a quick reconstruction of my game

    January 2010-

    City walls in Africa and South America Sold-
    military Units in Africa and South America dismanteled except Armors-

    Europe-Bern- Airport built
    South America- Bogota- Airport Built - Caracas, Carvan - Quito Producing Carvans- Lima Settlers
    Buenos Aires- Airport -Santiago , Producing Carvan
    Nagoya- Building Airport -Hiroshima Transport Rest of Japan building Caravans and Spys
    Bangkok- Transport
    Melbourne- Building Airport - Sydney , Building Carvan - Perth Food caravan
    African cities producing Food Caravans ( Lagos and Cape town , producing wonders United Nations and Adam Smith )
    Quebec, Montreal and Toronto -Rush production of 1 Transport, 1 Settlers, 1 Spy
    Vancouver- Mexico City- spys

    By March 2010-4 Airports functional - carvans from South America deliverd to Paris - and to China
    Transport created in Eastern Canada reaches Canary Islands- City built- Airport built
    Canary Island will be my link to deliver freights to southern Europe and Northern Africa

    Adam Smith Built in Cape town- Maintenance cost cut 40%-
    April, August and December are Oedo turns-
    March Revolution - April Democracy-
    Discoveries very 3 turns-Laser exchanged for Space Flight and Nuclear Fission, Semiconductor discovered - will exchange Techs - No more research- No more space techs needed-
    80 % Taxes 0 % Science 20% Luxuries - Taxes and Caravans bring between 2000 to 2800 gold per turn

    By December 2010-
    Settler in Seoul blocks chinese from stealing techs
    2 Spys in Bangkok on the alert for Indian, islamic or Chinese attempts
    - SDI Defenses built all cities in Asia-( Nagoya build SDI that defends 3 cities ! )
    Paris working on Apollo program-Spys find that is 75% finished-
    Not reason Using my caravans or money to Build Apollo, will wait until Paris built the Wonder
    United Nations Built in Lagos - Airports in Quebec and Toronto ( delivering Caravans for Eastern US ) - and Mexico City ( carvans for SW US )
    Montevideo, Asuncion and Belem Built in South America- all producing food caravans

    By August 2011-Paris Build Apollo
    Next turn my 3 Modules and 16 components are built .
    Will start working on structurals-
    Indians declare War- Destroy Transport and Freight , and 2 spys plus a destroyer in Bangkok-
    Indians launch Nucler weapons to Japan and Bangkok- SDI defenses thwart attacks-
    Nagoya-Building Nuclear-
    Hiroshima and Soul - Transports , settlers spy's and troops ready to attack Chinese and troops and take Beijing ( 6 squares from Japan ) if necessary
    Lusaka ( central Africa ) Built- Building Airport
    Americans SS- 3 structurals European 1 structural

    Late 2011-Suprisingly , Americans Launch a 15- 3 - 3 - 1 - 1 SS ETA - 15.7 Turns flight.
    Decided that my ship will outrun the USA, plenty Structurals - 16components but not all 12 modules I intended- Launching Non - Align SS-
    Switching to Build obsolete wonders - ( 3 )
    Europeans DeclareWar - Attack Bern

    Early 2012- Non Align Space ship arrives in Alfa -Power Supreme- Reputation spotless- 5 units lost !
     
  3. Peaster

    Peaster Emperor

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2004
    Messages:
    1,295
    Congrats, U! Your game was way better than mine. This game forced me out of my EC routine, so I decided to learn and have fun (but unfortunately, I can't have fun unless I take a game seriously). I committed to

    * play for a landing (practically my first time)
    * try democracy (practically my first time)
    * play MGE (I have favored 2.42 for 6 months)

    I chose America, hoping for an easier game. My internet connection was down, so I didn't review solo's EL guide (etc) that might have helped. The results were pretty dismal, though with great effort I managed a landing in late 2012.

    Turns 1-5: No problems. Peace. The AIs are fighting each other, while I amass 5000 gold from trade, plant colonies in Asia and Europe with airports for faster trade, and build my first nuke (planning to demand tribute). I am spending hours on IRBs, shifting city tiles for trade bonuses, etc - chores that don't bother me too much if the game is going well.

    Turns 6-8: Suddenly 4 AI's sneak attack and destroy my colonies and trading units (why? MGE? the nuke? the colonies themselves?). I discover that my Senate won't let me strike back, and that demanding tribute is not an option (because I have a democracy?). I am definitely doubting my decision to play a new style.

    Turns 7-14: Saving up vans for wonders or spaceship parts. The AI grab most of the remaining Wonders, but I built the UN, WS and CfC (a bit later) hoping for peace, happiness and growth. Doesn't really happen. I bribe Rabat for 1400g, still hoping for a distant airport.

    Turns 15-18: Finally, the AI start on Apollo as one of their last choices (I built CfC partly to remove it from the AI build queues). I am still losing a lot of units (and the Rabat airport) to AI sneak attacks, and still my Senate does not usually let me strike back....grrrrrr! How can civvers enjoy this?

    Turns 19-21: The EU builds the Apollo P, and I struggle to remember how to build a spaceship. A quick peek at the ELG, and I chose a 15+6 model, which takes 15 years (I guess correctly that this means a Dec 2012 landing). I vaguely recall some posts by Ali and others, that I have to prepare for an AI attack on my capitol. But I already have a good SDI network, and America seems fairly isolated anyway.

    Turns 22-29: I return to trade and growth, plus enough barracks/etc to wipe the annoying yellow NAN's from North America. I watch with increased nervousness as the EU builds a bigger and bigger ship. They launch in turn 29 with a flight time of 6.7 years, which beats my ship by one turn (did the AI plan that? or was that bad luck?). So, I have 5 turns (6?) to destroy Paris (and Brussels too?).

    I am quite annoyed at my inability to predict major events and plan ahead in this game. I have no real army prepared, but I do have some transports in the Atlantic (intended for trade) and some vet spies left over from the Canadian wars.
     
  4. Peaster

    Peaster Emperor

    Joined:
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    Turn 30: Some CFC poster recently recommended spies with nukes, so I sent one to Paris, where a "mysterious blast" appeared, and my Mech Inf took the EU capitol. Their ship did not crash - the capitol just moved to Brussels (which had a palace at the start).

    Turn 31: I lost and regained Paris (size 1, for 500g) along with a useful paratrooper. I repeated the spy+suitcase trick in Brussels, but the EU capitol just moved on to Amsterdam.

    Turn 32: The EU fails to nuke New York (SDI) and offers peace. I say no, but my Senate likes the idea...grrrrr!!! I have no choice, so I send another suitcase to Amsterdam. My govt does not collapse (that is possible, I think?) but I have caused a "major incident" and am at war with all 6 AI's, and still have no real army. Even worse, the EU capitol moves to distant Stockholm, which is at least two turns away (the game is over in approx 2-3 turns.. but I was not sure how landings work... start of turn? end of turn?).

    Turn 33: The Russians take Amsterdam and destroy some of my fleet. But I take 6 cities from the EU (mostly Spain + Britain) and position 2 transports within range of Stockhom. I cannot hope to take all the EU cities, but finally remember that moving a capitol costs approx 1000g (the AI never have that much in my EC games). The EU has been Fundy, and is rich, with a treasury over 4000g, even though I've wiped out 3 capitols and many improvements.

    Turn 34: Long story short - I took capitols in Stockholm, Warsaw, Belgrade and Bucharest, mostly with suitcase bombs, and the EU ship returns. Smoke covers Europe, and my pollution score cancels my Wonder score. With no capitol, I can bribe non-polluted cities like Rome (with a WoW) pretty cheaply. I disband all units in polluted cities such as Paris, Brussels, etc hoping the EU will take them back (they did, mostly) and reduce my pollution penalty (this seemed to work a little bit, not sure).

    Turn 35: The game is about over. The Russians nuked Copenhagen (no SDI) but no damage was done (I guess some nearby EU city had SDI??). I used 20 vans (rushed in Turn 34) and put them into 4 obsolete Wonders.

    Turn 36: My ship lands, with a nice little movie, but I think my 4 wonders were never built, and I don't have a great score. I guess I could have hit Ctrl-N for Turn 35. IIRC my pollution score went from -130 to -330 when my ship landed.

    So, it was a mostly happy ending. But I really felt this game was out of my control, so I am not yet hooked on the modern age. Maybe some of you can tell me how to play such games better. I may replay for conquest - after those last 6 turns, I don't think it should be much harder than landing.
     
  5. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    2,951
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Congradulations. Welcome to the modern age of Civ2!
    As you have already learned the hard way, when you are in Democracy (and Republic) demanding tribute is not even an option.
    We do not fight major wars in Democracy, only minor ones. Besides, by the time we switch to Democracy, we are usually well ahead of the pack tech wise.
    It was planned. I have seen it happen many times. When you launch your rivals attempt two things if they can: take over your capital and build a space ship that beats yours. In my opinion, short of spies, the AI is more intelligent fighting modern wars than ancient ones.
    Always the very beginning of the turn. In fact, it is better to think of it as the end of the previous turn.
    That is right, your wonders were not built. Turn 35 was your last chance to build anything.
     
  6. golem

    golem Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2001
    Messages:
    210
    Location:
    Praha, Czech rep.
    September 2012 - Non-Aligned (NA) conquered the entire planet. :) :) :)

    Here are some memories of their fight.

    June 2010 – We changed to Fundamentalism. Our spies were sent to America – they have stolen all unknown techs, but America declare war to us. Our howitzers were prepared nad conqered five American cities, two Chinese. We made alliance with EU, but start to make huge army in Bern. Through the time we had SDI, SAM, Barracs, Airport in Bern – and the biggest Army in one city. The war will be long, so we have sold all improvements from cities – all money went to weapons.
    Our plans were > Attack Amerika (3 directions) and China (1 direction). South Afrika will prepare forces to attack Saudi Arabia, Australia will attack Indonesia. This forces shoul meet in India sometimes.

    October 2010 – we have already conquered five Chinese and nine American cities. We have lost Vancouver - our only defeat so far. We founded military base in Somalia to attack Saudi Arabia.

    December 2010 – First Chinese nuclear attack, lost six Howitzs. We have conqered Dubai. Heavy fight in America, but no success.

    February 2011 – We conquered three other American cities, one with Magallench expedition. We attack India (transport from Dubai) and conquered one city.

    April 2011 – We conquere Jaipur, Indian nuked Bangkok. Global temperature rising, we prepare engineers to save our planet. East coast of Amerika conquered, Chinese lost another four cities.

    August 2011 – Changes in environment, horrible draught on entire planet. We offered other countries agreement of not using nuclear weapons, but they refused us. Australian forces conquered |Indonesia. Central India (five cities conquered). Chinese have only three cities.

    September 2011 – Our spies persuade the Chinese to join us – Chinese civilization destroyed.

    November 2011 – Central US conquered, we attack west coast, San Francisco conquered. Our forces from China has started the assault to Russia. Khabarovsk and Vladivostok were conquered. South Africa plan to attack Sudan and Egypt - cruise missiles, stealth fighters and paratroopers are prepared in Nairobi. Bern was.full of armies – 10 Howitzs, 3 Stealths, 4 Mech. Infantries. EU cancelled alliance with us.

    January 2012 – Islamic state nuked Karachi. We attacked EU, four cities conquered. US has only one city, India six. Our spies in Siberia bought some Russian cities even with nuclear weapons.

    February 2012 – Anchorage conquered, US destroyed.

    March 2012 – Our troops has conquered India. We nuked Omsk and Irkutsk and conquere Siberia. Moscow is near. Troops form America are moving to Europe – submarines with cruise missiles guard them. We have already conquered 9 EU cities. EU and Russia wanted to nuke us, but SDI works perfectly. Three missiles destroyed.

    June 2012 – Our troops conqered Kazan. Two Russian nuclear attacks were successful – we lost a lot of troops in Warszaw and Verona (Siberia). Ten cruise missiles is ready to attack Moscow, another six is prepare for Teheran. EU has six cities only. We were buing weapons everywhere.

    September 2012 – Great war has finished. Our spies bribed Islamic cities, cruise missiles destroyed all EU troops and Paratroopers conquered the cities. Heacy fight were in Oslo, were three Mech. Infantries destroyed our Howitzers and we had to send seven cruise missile to destroy them. Russia was a piece of cake then.

    In all these fights we lost more than 130 units, for example 69 Howitzers, 15 spies, 17 stealth fighters.
     
  7. Peaster

    Peaster Emperor

    Joined:
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    Golem: Sounds like a nice game. Congrats on the first reported conquest. I have barely started a replay (USA for conquest) and for me it may be easier than landing. But conquest seemed pretty hard at first look.

    Ali: Thanks. Your advice may help me learn to enjoy the modern era someday. :)
     
  8. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    I have played as Europeans till March 2011. I am shooting for a space victory. It is going OK but not well.

    First couple of turns I sold unneeded infrastructure and disbanded Riflemen to allow me to rush Freights, a couple of transports, and a few spies. All went according to plan till the Moslems sneak attacked and sank my transport carrying freights to Africa. They also killed a few naval units and all the defenders of Athens. I was lucky Athens did not fall. I counter attacked and took over Istanbul. They offered peace; I accepted. It has lasted so far.

    Then Russians sneak attacked. They were intent on conquering Warsaw. Thanks to my SAM, fighter, and Mech infantry they lost 15 fighters in two turns with no casualties on my side. They gave up and offered peace; I accepted. It has lasted so far.

    I swapped techs with Americans early on and accepted their offer of alliance. They even declared war on Russians after their attack on Warsaw. But as soon as I landed my first freight in America they canceled the alliance without making any demands and sent my transport and its other 6 freights back to Europe delaying me 3 turns. Their attitude remained Enthusiastic though. So I sent the ship back for deliveries. Meanwhile they sent a huge navy towards Europe.

    All of a sudden came a mindless American sneak attack; this was totally stupid even by AI standards. They killed one of my 3 remaining freights in America and left two untouched (why?). Then they threw puny destroyers against my cities; barely wounding my defenders. And for the grandest stupidity of all they attacked a city with a an aircraft carrier who had a stealth bomber on board!!! losing both in the attempt. Even if they managed to kill any of my defenders they had no transports in their navy to take over any cities! Next turn I used my subs and fighters to sink their entire fleet without any casualties on my side.

    Did that knock some sense into them? No. Did they offer peace like Moslems and Russians? No. They nuked Lisbon instead. Mindless carnage with no goals in mind. They had no units nearby to take it over. They sent a helicopter belatedly which was destroyed before getting close. I lost 5 units; 3 of them freights ready to be shipped to South America. I also lost land improvements nearby.

    I kicked myself for not having full SDI coverage. I had only one SDI at the time covering my capital and part of the Russian front. Two more came on line the next turn. I could have had one in Madrid covering the entire Spain but delayed it because I did not expect anything from that side.

    I have built Hoover. Others have built a number of wonders but not Apollo yet. I have a city working on it, but I have not helped it with freights because I am not ready yet to build a space ship super quick.

    The biggest disappointment so far has been trade. I hit the ground running producing freights only to see them return less than 100 upon delivery even between the British isles and mainland Europe (separate continents). The American deliveries were better but their return was typically 200-400 each.
    Lack of cash has slowed me down quite a bit. Launching this year seems unlikely.

    I picked the Europeans over Non-Aligned because their better infrastructure allowed a jump start and because they are easier to defend (all cities close by). I was right on both counts but failed to see a major advantage of Non-Aligned: easy distant trade. I bet domestic trade between South America and Australia is several times more profitable than my pathetic returns; and think of all the freight I could deliver to Europe via Bern.
     
  9. Peaster

    Peaster Emperor

    Joined:
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    Playing the Americans, I got trade going quickly, with bonuses averaging around 350g-400g for demanded goods to Europe or Asia. The airports helped to add distance (eg East coast vans fly to LA, then sail to Asia). I didn't choose the NonA's, because I didn't want to build many new airports (and work for the missing techs), but maybe they are an even better choice for early trade.

    Maybe my mistake was making the first spaceship ? Uruwashi launched second, but with a fast ship, and then he had no problems with the space race. Is that a good strategy in EL ... to wait and go second?

    I have had no time lately for my replay, at conquest, but am wondering whether to treat it as an official game (see Ali's proposal in the other thread).
     
  10. Carrot

    Carrot Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2004
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    Location:
    Sweden
    In EL no other civ will be even close to launching when you do, so it really doesn't matter. Generally, you want to launch the fastest ship you can as soon as possible, landing date being the determining factor. For GotM, however, score is based on turns, so launching a faster ship with a later landing date is better as long as it takes fewer turns total. Unless you intend to pump your score with growth and wonders, then it will pay of to have more turns as long as you maintain per turn growth...

    And if you do the maths, you have too much time on your hands. :crazyeye:
     
  11. Dinamo

    Dinamo Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Tg-Jiu, Romania
    I started as Non Alligned, and decided to play for space ship. First few turns I build few airports, freights and started 3 wonders (SETI, Adam Smith and United Nations). Exchanged and bought a few techs. Allied with chinese. Peace with others. Turns went by preaty calm. Finished Adam Smith, SETI and expectin g AI to finish Apollo. Indians and Muslim sneak atack make me lose one african city- which I reconquer with partisans. I launch second, but my SS will arrive first. Sneak atacks form Europeans and Americans. Lost one city to the Americans, but conquered another (Seattle I guess).
    Ending of 2013 - Non Alligned SS arrive on Alpha Centaury - game won.
    I think that was a liitle to slow but for my first GOTM it's OK.
    I will try to win also by conquering the whole world, but I think it will be a much harder task. Not really a nuke fan .... :).
    If you have some pointers for me I will appreciate it very much.
    I also want to add that I play CIV II since 1998 and CIV III since 2003.
    Looking forward to speaking with you again.
    PS
    I'm from Romania so excuse my English.
     
  12. Peaster

    Peaster Emperor

    Joined:
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    Dinamo: Welcome to the GOTM!! Your game sounds pretty good to me. I've played a lot of GOTMs, but none like this one, so I can't offer too much advice. I guess you didn't need to build SETI (it is probably easier to steal science from the US and EU) and Adam Smith (since it is likely to be a short game, you may not get your investment back). Of course, they do help your score, and building them probably encouraged the AI's to switch to Apollo sooner.

    Your game sounds a lot like Uruwashi's and confirms Carrot's advice to build a faster ship than my 15.7 year clunker. Now I wonder if the EL players have a favorite ship configuration. I chose mine (15+6, or do you call it a 15-3-3-3-1-1-1?) almost at random from a chart in the ELG. But at least in this game, with such great infrastructure, it seems you can build a faster ship pretty quickly.
     
  13. Old n Slow

    Old n Slow Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2002
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    1,168
    Location:
    Vienna, VA, USA
    I've only played the first year (12 turns) as the EU and have seen some interesting stuff -- An American Carrier sails in, launches a Stealth fighter that sneak attacks (huh? the ai uses CA?). And should anyone feel the urge, the turn ends with the AI STF still in flight (gee, I wish my fighters could stay aloft like that...)

    And yes the Amerks sent a nuke over to Lisbon as well -- good for me that that city was under the umbrella (unlike half of my other cities. -- 90% should be safe by the start of my next turn.)

    Two thirds of the world are governed by Fundy's -- I think I'll join them in three turns. :ar15:
     
  14. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    As Carrot correctly pointed out in EL you are far ahead of the pack in tech and no one is close to launching when you do. In OCC, 95% of the time you launch a 15s3c1m ship like the one you did because larger ships take too many extra turns and you are rarely that far ahead of the pack.

    In this game, where all the rivals are technologically advanced and have a decent number of cities, you just have to watch your rivals very carefully and know how fast space ships can be made (see http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=122996). Fortunately, Space ship information is public knowledge. Keep in mind that the AI almost never builds more than one set of modules.
     
  15. Sharkbait

    Sharkbait Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    Messages:
    127
    Location:
    New Zealand
    I'm trying to conquer the world in 1 turn playing as the non-aligned. Have been building units, keeping out of the AIs way, and giving a bit of gold here and there when building some railways through their land to stop them from attacking me (if they're uncooperative or worse).

    I've got a bit of time pressure, as the Americans have launched their ship and its going to land in April 2017. Its now July 2016, and while I can easily take them out I have to beef up some and get better access to both the Europeans and the Chinese. I'm looking at a nice rail link right across Siberia, so I might actually attack Europe from the East, with a few transports from Africa, but I might use most of my African troops to get at the Chinese via India. The terrain seems to make this simpler, but the time pressure might foil me. Not sure if I have enough mushroom clouds available either.

    I think that if I don't succeed this time I'll replay it - I didn't really have much of a plan at the start and am sure I've wasted copious amounts of time. The perfectionist tendencies creep out, and they don't sit well with the bloodlust necessary to do this. :D

    Reckon I should have done a it more trading early on too.
     
  16. Old n Slow

    Old n Slow Emperor

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    Vienna, VA, USA
    I'm halfway into year 3, with Russia almost gone & actively at war with Islam & India, passively at war with America with my good allies the Nons. Too bad the Amerks and Chinese have started building spaceships -- looks like my taking 2-3 cities per turn is too slow.

    Discovered that Being Fundy with the Eiffel Tower may allow some diplomatic no-nos. I accepted my ally's request to go war twice and am still spotless with the rep (not that any of the other fundys care...)

    Haven't bought any cities yet; still don't have a nuke either. On the other hand, 4 out of twelve have gotten through...
     
  17. willemvanoranje

    willemvanoranje Curitibano

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    well.. first time i participate in years haha.. and I didn't lose! although i got my ass kicked in the last turns..
     
  18. Andu Indorin

    Andu Indorin Retired Druid

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Colorado Spgs, CO
    It has been since you passed this way. Apparently you've been spending a fair amount time in Brasil. Been to Wolfschluggen lately?
     
  19. TimTheEnchanter

    TimTheEnchanter I...am...an Enchanter!

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2001
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    1,985
    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    I said I didn't have enough time to play the new succession game, so what do I do? I play the GOTM! :wallbash: Actually, I figured since it was my thread that started this whole thing, I had to make every effort to play in this historic 5th anniversary game.

    A month after I joined the forums (I had been lurking for a while), I wanted a place where everyone played the same game so we could compare notes and (selfishly) I could learn how people played at levels above King. I can't believe that 5 years later it's still going (or that I generally avoid games below King now).

    Kudos go to Duke for an impressive setup in this game and for all his work administering it over the years (and Matrix before him). Kudos go to all of you who play far more regularly than I do, keeping this game alive for so long. :beer: :thanx:



    As for this particular game, it's quite an interesting setup. I clearly am not used to playing these types of games in modern times with the AI on near equal footing. I still have a few turns before landing, but things seem to be in hand at the moment.

    I was not nearly aggressive enough early on. I didn't rushbuild fast enough. I didn't disband units fast enough. I definitely didn't build airports soon enough. I thought to sell a bunch of SAMs but didn't sell City Walls in the same cities. By the way, THIS:
    is the kind of thing I wish I would think of more often. :thumbsup:

    I waffled on my approach from turn to turn (To grow, or not to grow? To sacrifice people for engineers or not? To build military or not?) and that kind of indecision just kills any attempt to be efficient. I also didn't take the time to calculate estimated delivery payouts at first, so I didn't send things far enough away and wasted a ton of early freights on clunker payouts and felt like I was then playing from behind for quite a while because I didn't get the cash infusion I was expecting.

    Eventually I launched a moderately big ship expected to land jan '13. I grew a little, but surely didn't do enough to compensate for my late launch. More information should follow once I am done.
     
  20. willemvanoranje

    willemvanoranje Curitibano

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Amsterdam/Stuttgart/Curitiba/Lima
    Haha, just a year in Brasil.. I got back last june. Went to Wolfschlugen twice since june; last time was at christmas! University and work don't allow much though... Btw, long time no see Andu!
     

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