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Gotm 72

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Game of the Month' started by Duke of Marlbrough, Jan 3, 2007.

  1. Duke of Marlbrough

    Duke of Marlbrough The Quiet Moderator Retired Moderator

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  2. rodrigo_pons

    rodrigo_pons Chieftain

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    Due to the extra large map, would this game be adequate to a early launching?
     
  3. ElephantU

    ElephantU Chieftain

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    Depends on the land and trade specials available, but might be worth a try. Restarts off might be a challenge - depends on how aggressive the AI civs are. Hopefully the Purple civ is not missing.

    Some quick map analysis shows from the starting position and the hut that the Resource Seed is either 20 or 52 (20+32), and thus there should be a hidden special under the grass due south of the starting location and a 4-special city site three tiles to the south-south-west (and another three tiles beyond that). The continent is numbered 1 so black clicking will not yield a lot of information. The map is 80x123 and round. There should be a fair number of huts close by (two groups of four, south east and southwest, just looking at the analysis map). The abundance of starting techs allows us to get to Monarchy on our second round if we get Ceremonial Burial first and no techs from huts. The absence of a White civ settled makes me a little nervous about trying an OCC till I explore the land a bit.
     
  4. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    The white civ is the only one whose absence will not be missed no matter what strategy you use. It is the green and blue whose absence make OCC a risky proposition. And, as you mentioned, the absence of the purple civ is a big hurdle for early landing.
     
  5. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Correction: The map is 80x125 (and round).
     
  6. noughmaster

    noughmaster nough-dist

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    Was the resource seed deliberately set to give loads of huts, will all good stuff inside? I got a horseman from the first one (obviously it had to be something good as it was inside the city limits), then sent them around popping huts. It's 3000BC and I have 8 cities: 2 from the settlers at start + 1 from a built settler + 2 advanced tribes + 3 nomads. I haven't got 1 bad thing from a hut.
    Anyone else notice this?
    It's also possible to get monarchy by 3500BC, which helps a lot.
     
  7. LordValuna

    LordValuna High Lord

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    My hut luck was bad , tech Map making, 2 archers, 3 empty villages and 1 barbarian (edit not necessarilly in that order, but I did get Map before I could research Monarchy but I did get some gold so it wasnt all bad)
     
  8. TimTheEnchanter

    TimTheEnchanter I...am...an Enchanter!

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    Same here. Got an early Tech, tried to get cute with the early settler production, and it was all a comedy of errors from there. 2000bc and still in Despotism.
     
  9. URUWASHI

    URUWASHI Chieftain

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    Correction Ali : The Map is 125 x 160 - As the game starts is too early to pinpoint any " Hidden " specials , yet after farther search ( 3 or 4 Moves ) , is specials and they are hidden under us.
    Nice to be back........... and play CIV
     
  10. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    If you open this in the map editor, the dimensions are 80x125. If you count the number of tiles, it is 80x125=10K. If you look at coordinates as displayed in Civ 2, they are 0 to 159 and 0 to 124. This is such a source of confusion. Coordinates (x,y) of map editor becomes (2x,y) if y is even and (2x+1,y) if y is odd.
     
  11. URUWASHI

    URUWASHI Chieftain

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  12. Duke of Marlbrough

    Duke of Marlbrough The Quiet Moderator Retired Moderator

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    No, you cannot open the game in the map editor.

    The correct map size is 125 x 80. The number is always half of what the corridnates show due to the tilted nature of the tiles and movement.
     
  13. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    As Duke pointed out you cannot open the game in the map editor while playing. My point was that the x dimension in the game is always twice that seen in the map editor because certain (x,y) coordinates do not exist in the game.

    I always perform map analysis before starting the game. This requires starting from a blank map the same size as that of your game; in this case 125x80. If my strategy is to win via space ship my map editor remains open while I am still building cities and I keep updating my knowledge of the map.
     
  14. URUWASHI

    URUWASHI Chieftain

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    Ali, I understand your point.
    I study the map editor ( only ocean , no land , a blank map , only whales and fish are visible ) while I was working last year on my seed finder program , to understand the formations of the specials and I realized later that all calculations were wrong because the map editor coordiantes did not jive with the real map.
    IN the map editor the Coordiantes East or west are + or - 8 , in the playing Map they are + or - 16.....
    Then I used an old game to determine the distance between all seeds on Excel, the map editor just help me to " see " the formations ( Opposite hexagons with 2 specials inside ) that run paralell , and repeat every 16 squares East or west and beguin or end at longitud 0.
    The only thing I learned from the Map editor was the different seeds depending on the Hexagesimal number, I can determine all hidden specials now , just by using that program.
    I still have not find the " logic " of the huts, since the mathematical equation works ..sometimes...
    Whales and Fish are allways there, may be visible or hidden under a grassland, and invisible if more than 2 tiles from land....HUTS , are a bit different , the distance SHOULD be + 16 ...but is not consistent....I my first deduction was that the Huts would not appear if located on top of a hidden Seed , or withing 1 square....YET the pattern of the Huts is similar to the Seeds ( an outside Hexagon with 2 specials that point NW/SE and repeats..then another Hexagon , one on top , and one on the Bottom that points NE/SW ).
    So when a map is quoted as a 125 x 80 , in reality is a 120 x 160.
    Point is understood, pretty much like talking miles , and nautical miles they are miles , but not the same distance.
    I asked you about two years ago the concept of " painting " the map and you explained, but I found it very complicated because of the conversion of the coordinates from real map to map editor , plus I then realized that the seed resource , had to be Exact , and having 64 different formations required not just to paint the map , but also juggle with the correct seed to be underneath the painted map..then I realized that it could be a different way to locate the seed.
    Anyhow , I understand your point , but stubborn as I am , I will still call this map a 125 x 160 ...... because it is what I see.... ( smiling ... ).
    BY the way , this is a really wonderful and Machiavellic Map.... Kudos to the creators , I just played to about 500 BC and exchanged Maps ...and I was shock by the lay out...
    Duke....Thanks for another wonderful game....
     
  15. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Check out http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=191447 for a detailed analysis.
    You only need to juggle 16; see the above thread for why.
    True, but it is customary to call it 125x80.
    I played one session over a week ago and realized early on that this is not a randon map.
     
  16. URUWASHI

    URUWASHI Chieftain

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    ALI :
    Thanks for the link , but I have found not new or useful information regarding Hut finding ....in fact I can get faster and more accurate findings with my seed finder program ....instead of using the Map editor ....I have been working on a new Excel file , to determine location of huts.
    I can locate the seeds without using a Map editor ...and I THINK I may have cracked the way to locate Huts using simple math.
    I like to read or get information about HUTFINDER , to see , IF what I found has allready been discovered and posted, or IF the information I have can be useful to other players.
    I mention I was playing game 72 ( until about 575 BC ) and the game shaded some light about the relationship bewteen Huts and Seeds.
    For the last 4 days , I have been studying old maps , random maps , even using the Map editor...and I came up with some interesting conclusions
    I am certain that my hypotesis about distances and calculations is right , and my conclusions are correct ..BUT , I like to find the link to a program or a link to the Hutfinder article.

    Thanks
     
  17. ElephantU

    ElephantU Chieftain

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    HutFinder was done by a guy named Scouse Gits over at Apolyton, based on collaborative research by several others, most notably SlowThinker.
     
  18. LordValuna

    LordValuna High Lord

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  19. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    I played one night of this game in early January and have been too busy to play till this weekend. This weekend I was tempted to start GOTM73 and dump this one. I am glad I did not. As I suspected, this is a custom map and a beautiful one at that. I am surprised how few have been playing this month (given the low count of posters in the spoiler thread).

    Folks, this is a map you do not want to miss. Join in. There is a still a week left. Maybe we can even have Duke extend the deadline somewhat.
     
  20. Magic_gorter

    Magic_gorter Moderator Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    I'm still busy playing this one. Almost finished. It looks like this will be my first Deity game I will succeed in winning by spaceship. Considering that the trade part is more difficult (no near islands) then with a normal map I'm glad with the way I'm playing right now. When I'm finished I will make my log.
     

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