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Gotm 83

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Game of the Month' started by Ali Ardavan, Dec 5, 2007.

  1. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    We are starting late this month. And many people are busy with holiday activities. But this game is going to be short no matter how you play it. So every one can participate. Game play will be fast. But due to unusual circumstances, you should think long and hard before getting started. Also, for those interested in comparison games, this one is for you. Most elements of tyical luck in Civ2 gameplay are nonexistant here.

    Global Warming

    Global warming has taken place on a massive scale. All the polar ice caps, both north and south, are gone. Nations leaving on low land are wiped out. Only 7 fortified locations, scattered around the world, are left. The humans who managed to reach these locations have gone through so much suffering they have lost all the knowledge of their ancestors. You are leading the descendents of the once mighty Aztecs. Can you help them reach glory again? Will you go for conquering the meager land on the world, or will you shoot for outer space. The choice is yours.

    Game of the Month #83 (December 2007)

    The game settings
    Civilization: Aztec
    Map: 32x32 flat
    There are only 7 land tiles. All are grassland with access to 2 whales and 2 fish.
    Lands are far enough apart not to be reachable by Triremes in one turn.
    7 civs each having a coastal fortress (just the improvement, not the prereq tech)
    Difficulty: Deity (But you start with only one settler, the other died of starvation on route ;) )
    Barbarians: None (Villages only setting)
    Restarts: Off
    No Huts (obviously)
    Starting Techs: None

    Starting location:
    http://civ2gotm.civfanatics.net/gotm_games/GOTM83.jpg

    Games will be due on January 5th, 2008.

    Please be sure to follow the submission guidelines when submitting your game.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Merlin_Pilgrim

    Merlin_Pilgrim Chieftain

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    So, Ali - you created the game at least (you planned it quite a while ago, didn't you?) :)

    It will be interesting to see the results.
     
  3. CharlieChuck

    CharlieChuck Chieftain

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    This one looks interesting.

    My initial thoughts are what would give the highest GOTM score, an early conquest or Space ship with 5 of the other opponants taken out? If I'm reading this right, conquest wont be possible until a unit can attack from a boat or the boats themselves attack.

    I don't know how to attack this one yet. A bit more thinking's needed first...
     
  4. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    With Duke's persmission of course.
    For quite some time, I was more interested in designing unusual maps than actually playing the game. I still have several maps that I have never played. This one is an evolution of an early one I designed to better learn the game. By cutting out certain aspects of the game, this one allows you to concentrate fully on the remaining ones.

    Indeed, since chance plays very little role in this game. Also, many a times players have to play a certain style, for example OCC, just to be able to manage the real time. This one will not take much time no matter how you play it so the field is wide open.

    You are right on the attack dimension, but there is a lot more to think about.

    I will provide some food-for-thought points soon.
     
  5. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Since this game is very unusual, I am going to provide some points to think about for everyone. The initial style of the play is OCC, but experienced OCC players will still find this game quite unusual as well.

    The first and foremost decision is the tech path. (This is a scenario, there are no hidden techs.) You start with nothing and that limits your choice of production to three, two of which you do not need. The other one, warriors for crowd control, are not going to keep you busy for long. So be very careful what you choose to research. Regardless of the style of play, we almost often shoot straight for Monarchy. Of the 4 techs needed for that, two give you no new things to build, one gives you a useless thing for this game: courthouse, and the last one gives you only one new thing to build: temple.

    With no huts, and no possibility of running into a rival, the tech pursuit at the begining is very deliberate and can be planned out right from the start.

    Another unusual aspect of this game, which requires careful upfront planing, is the scarcity of shields. Until late in the game, you have to do with 5. OCC players may think, big deal, I have dealt with this before. I always pay for things with gift money from my allies. But allies only give you money when they are more powerful than you. With all your rivals confined to one city just like you, you have to shoot yourself in the foot not to be supreme fairly quickly. The other (and much bigger) source of funds, regardless of the style of play, of course is trade. That too is unusual here: No trade over land, no city within trireme reach, very small world, and only 6 other cities to choose from. Delivering undemanded goods over small distances will not give experienced traders the big payoffs they are used to.

    There is more to be said. But the important thing to remember is think and plan ahead. This game can be planned far more than a typical game of Civ2. Do not just rely on your intuition. Plan, or you will face forseeable surprises.
     
  6. Banach

    Banach Chieftain

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    I concur. I have been thinking about how to proceed, and find myself wondering exactly what the AI is going to do in this situation. On Deity, one has to be very careful about wonder races, as the AI's production advantage will easily allow them to snag ancient wonders if one isn't careful. In this situation, I have little idea about the AI's research and wonder building. The AI is definitely crappy at researching as well. I think that this game will be a great challenge, and my plan is beginning to come together. This situation poses other unique challenges. One needs land units to make contact with the AI, short of MPE or a dip sent into to establish an embassy. As Ali pointed out, the restriction on the AI will not only make them bad for tribute, but very bad for trading techs as well. I really wonder what I am going to do in this scenario. I'll post more on the spoiler page later.
     
  7. CharlieChuck

    CharlieChuck Chieftain

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    My final thoughts and reasoning for the start were as follows.

    Main plan - get to Steam Engine as quickly as possible, then decide whether to go for conquest or Spaceship. Plan to build 3 warriors and a temple then go for lighthouse, to enable early trade and use diplomats for embassies.

    I figured ironclads were the first unit capable of beating fortified units with coastal fortress, with explorers to take the city. The production limits figured in this, under monarchy the AI could have up to 8 defenders. Taking the first city would be difficult, but after taking the third city It would be a quick end.

    On the other hand spaceship would be harder than normal due to low shield production not helping much with making the wonders needed for OCC. I hadn't thought of keeping my power low and getting cash gifts. At least all civs are present, so the purple civ can be used.
     
  8. Ace

    Ace Chieftain

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    Hint: this is the perfect spot to build and sell off barracks during the long slog to map making. Once you build warriors to defend your city, and provide martial law, there is really nothing to build until trade provides vans. ;)
     
  9. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Building and selling barracks is a terrible idea. There will be useful things to build once you get the right techs. The most important early choice is which tech to pursue first. It should be one that gives you something useful to build.
     
  10. Duke of Marlbrough

    Duke of Marlbrough The Quiet Moderator Retired Moderator

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    Building and selling Barracks sounds like a pretty good idea to me. Turns shields into gold while you're going through techs. I don't see many needed things to build early on.
     
  11. URUWASHI

    URUWASHI Chieftain

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    I agree, I played most of the game in a few hours.
    It took me longer to write a log , based on saves than play the game.

    WRONG, You can build a City with 6 Shields....- You can get 6 Shields as I did early in the game.

    After you get the city size 6, I build a Settler, then he proceeded to " Mine " the Island,so I got a 6 Shield City.
    That also stop the city from growing, avoiding Riots.
    The process, to me was simple.

    Building and selling Barracks was a great thing, I ended with 300 gold, and was able to speed up my MP building.

    I played the game based on 4 requirements :

    Monarchy Path- Then Trade Path-( Build MP ) Then Kings Richard Path-( change to Republic and have 12 extra shields )..then trade with the other CIVS to get to Medicine and Shakespeare..THEN start trading and building all the requirements either to conquer ( you need Iron Clads ) , then start adding points by building Wonders.

    I was able to build . Collosus , Copernicus, Newton, University within 20 turns...

    I rarely write a log, tideous to me.But I have a basic one.

    In any event, I have the chance to destroy most civs, and go for the SS, or conquer the world.

    Im in the final stages of the game
     
  12. Ace

    Ace Chieftain

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    This is partially true. The key phrase is "once you get the right techs"! Before you get trade, you only need 3 warriors for martial law, and 2 of them become surplus if you go for early Republic. So, after building your warriors, build and sell barracks to raise money to rush vans, and a trireme,to build the lighthouse.
     
  13. ccAMELS73

    ccAMELS73 Carolina Camels

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    this is exactly what I did....built and then sold barracks, then once i discovered writing the money made from the barracks went directly into a library...
    ... and subsequently a marketplace once currency was discovered
     
  14. Ace

    Ace Chieftain

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    Except, if you save the coins until you get trade, you can rush 4 food vans and a trireme and build the lighthouse in one turn, than start building goods vans to trade for more coins and lots of beakers..., the time and cost to build a library is not worth the 2-4 beakers it yields. And wait on the marketplace until the vans generate enough coins to rush it without disrupting the trade schedule.
     
  15. Banach

    Banach Chieftain

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    If I can paraphrase what I think Ali was saying, based on his OCC game from last month...."Research Bronze working first so that you can build the Colossus". I believe that that's pretty standard OCC stuff anyway, but then again, I might be wrong. That gives you something to build for atleast 40 turns or so. We'll just have to see how it goes.
     
  16. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Banach got the basic idea right. Why would you turn your shields into 1 gold (by selling barracks) then spend 2.5 of them to get 1 shield back while rushing caravans for a wonder? Every shield gone towards a barrack is a net loss of 1.5 coins.

    The thing to do, in my opinion anyways, is to build warriors while you research the first tech, then switch to a wonder. Which wonder you pick is immaterial as you can switch away to another wonder when you have more techs. The conclusion is that your first tech ought to be one giving you the ability to build a wonder. Bronze is an excellent choice. Masonry and Pottery would also do.
     
  17. Ace

    Ace Chieftain

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    For an OCC, or a regular game, the above is correct, but, in this game, the Colossus is not really that much help. You don't need a phanlax to defend your city, a warrior will do the job nicely. Since the AI cheats as usual, it knows that the odds of a loaded trireme beating a fortified warrior are not good, it usually won't attack, and if it does, it will lose. Your stuck on a bloody one hex island until the Lighthouse is finished so the few extra trade arrows it gives you are not significant, but the coins you get from the sold barracks are useful to rush vans to build the lighthouse in one turn when you finally get map making. And, by going directly to ealy Republic, you get that extra trade arrow per citizen anyway, without wasting 40 turns, and the real payoffs come from delivering vans to the AI cities. In addition, this IS a Gotm, time is everything! 40 turns of mindlessly pressing the entry key will kill your score. If you really want those wonders, wait til you start taking AI cities, you will have enough coins to rush a couple before the end of the game. Plus, in the early stages, getting out of depotism is key and bronze working, pottery, or masony don't help getting to Republic. (In this game, monarchy seems to be a waste of time, since in slows you down.) The optimium research path seems to be: get Republic, than get trade, than map making, than push hard for steam engine. That is really the last advance one needs to win the game by conquest.

    This is the most challenging Gotm since the Gauntlet game, IMHO, and one really has to think outside the box to achieve an early conquest. The only wonder that is absolutely essential in this game is the Lighthouse. Several others would be nice to have, but are not required to achieve the objective, ie, the earliest possible victory.
     
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  18. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Chieftain

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    I wrote this in "GOTM83 Spoiler":

    I liked this and whipped through it. I have been playing the "Win before 1750" for a while and I went for Monarchy for control, Navigation and then Magnetism for the Frigates. I used Diplomats to sabotage the Coastal Fortresses. I protected myself with veteran Phalanx's and didn't even start exploring until I had Frigates. I won in 1877. Once the layout of the first couple of cities was found it was apparent where the others where, "Go.East!"

    Maybe winning in 1877 is too late for others but I thought the Diplomat sabotaging the Coastal Fortress was a good idea. I didn't keep a log but for many turns I was just wacking the "Enter" key to do the research to move on to the next tech.
     
  19. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Interesting point of view, Ace. I still think delaying change of government by one extra tech is worth the money you will save in building your first wonder. No matter what style one plays, an early wonder is essential and the 40+ turns it takes to build it is hopefully long enough to get the needed tech right before the end and switch over. But I do see your point and I believe only a comparison game would show which idea works better.

    Thanks for the compliment. I believe your comment, to a lesser extent perhaps, is applicable for space ship players as well.
     
  20. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Even conquest players are likely to consider this issue in this GOTM (deity and the need to attain Frigates or Ironclads.) Here are my thoughts on the subject:

    In republic every citizen earns one more arrow. You have to pay support for at least 2 units (a defender and a ship), and passify 2 more citizens (assuming that in Monarchy you would keep 2 defenders and one boat). Thus the cost of the republic is 2 shields and 4 coins. At 2.5 coins per shield the cost is 9. The advantage of republic is one extra arrow per citizen. Thus the breakeven point is when your city is size 8. This takes quite a while.

    The above ignores two things. One is that with a marketplace each arrow turns into 1.5 coins (you also incur a cost of 1 coin) and thus the breakeven point is city of size 6 (you actually get an advantage of .5 coins here). This can be attained much earlier but still not early enough to justify skipping Monarchy.

    The other thing being ignored here is trade. Those extra arrows turn into bigger payoffs from trade.

    My conclusion is that early republic here is not justfied before trade. And since early trade requires Lighthouse I doubt if one can trade early enough to justify early republic.
     

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