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GOTM Techniques, Cheats, Rules & Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Game of the Month' started by starlifter, Jul 16, 2002.

  1. starlifter

    starlifter Deity

    Jun 17, 2001

    Rev. 1.08 26Jul02 - Moved Notes & Revision History to next post because newly added links rapidly approaching the 15,000 character post limit; wording clarifications on some FCT items; Added asterisks to #10 & #11; Added #32 (OCC & Paulicy); Added #33 - Zero Turn Revolution (by Xin Yu via SL); Added #34 (<nil> Trade by LordValuna)

    Note: Submit GOTMs to DoM@civfanatics.net each month, by the end of the 5th.

    Preface: Since I've seen several discussions and confusions about various techniques in GOTMs lately, this thread will distill it into one place for equal and easy reference by all Civ 2 GOTMers.

    Civ 2 GOTM Techniques, Cheats, Rules & Discussion

    1. To centralize a reference for discussion of techniques, cheats, and rules.
    2. To create reference links for easier access by all GOTMers.
    3. To describe lesser known techniques.
    4. To increase knowledge level of Civ 2 players.
    5. To eliminate confusion about exactly what is and is not allowed in GOTMs.

    1. Discuss any aspect, or come up with new things that should be addressed.
    2. All GOTMers (new and old) have input and can suggest additions/changes.

    Note: The 1st 10 items correspond to Duke of Marlbrough's last year, here, in which he asked Matrix (who was the GOTM Mod/Admin at the time) for some clarifications (now Duke of Marlbrough is the GOTM Mod/Admin and has the final ruling).

    [size=4][u][b][FONT=arial]Current status of GOTM Techniques & Rules:[/b][/size][/u]
    [size=2]* - Asterisk after Status denotes current member discussion.
    Post # - The first post in this thread that a Technique is actually discussed.[/size][/FONT]
        [u][b]Technique                                       [/u]    [u]Current Status[/b][/u]
     1. [b]Airbases                                            Disallowed[/b]
         (If used in lieu of mine, irrigate, RR, like [url=http://www.civfanatics.com/civ2scrolls.shtml#Airbase]here.[/url])                 
     2. Use 'find city' or 'go to'                          Allowed* [size=1][FONT=times new roman](Post #4)[/FONT][/size]
         ("Find" shows area of undiscovered Wonder Cities)     
     3. [url=http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=378135#post378135]Map Clicking[/url]                                        Allowed* [size=1][FONT=times new roman](Post #3)[/FONT][/size]
         (Right clicking unknown terrain to "see" it)                
     4. [b]Unsinkable Triremes, uncrashable planes             Disallowed [/b]
         (Only works in MGE)                                    
     5. [url=http://www.civfanatics.com/civ2scrolls.shtml#Irrigation]Irrigation anywhere[/url]                                 Allowed* [size=1][FONT=times new roman](Post #8)[/FONT][/size]
         (K function to irrigate with no adjacent water)        
     6. Seeing enemy's explored land (not trading maps)     Allowed
         (Using enemy's mini map in a city status screen)       
     7. Nuclear Missile Trap                                Allowed  [size=1][FONT=times new roman](Post #6)[/FONT][/size]
         (aka "nuke trap")                                        
     8. Settler/Engineer [url=http://www.civfanatics.com/civ2scrolls.shtml#speedup]Pre-Charge[/url]                         Allowed
         (Start building & change work)    
     9. Ship Chaining (aka "ship-hopping")                  Allowed
         (transfer cargo from ship to ship in 1 turn)   
    10. [url=http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27833]Food Caravan Trick[/url] ([URL=http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=367591#post367591]FCT[/URL])                            Allowed [size=1][FONT=times new roman](Post #144)[/FONT][/size]
    11. Food Caravans/Food Freight (FC/FF)                  Allowed*
         (FC/FF [b]can[/b] be used to help feed/grow if not FCT)      
    12. [url=http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27833]Unnaturally Large City Sizes[/url]                        Allowed
         (Also, growth with less than 1 food surplus)  
    13. [b]Reload to change outcome                            Disallowed[/b]
         (Accept 1st Hut outcome! Exception: OCC & Paulicy)   
    14. [url=http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=366405#post366405]Bribing, Revolting, Subverting[/url]                      Allowed
         (All diplomatic functions allowed, even nukes) 
    15. [b]Submit a replayed game                              Disallowed[/b] 
         (You must submit your [b]first[/b] played game)  
    16. Bomber Stack                                        Allowed
         (Use a Bomber to protect a stack of units) 
    17. Pet Cities                                          Allowed
         (Let one AI city survive to keep game going)
    18. [url=http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=379489#post379489]Tech Gifting[/url]                                        Allowed
         (Give [url=http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15033&highlight=oedo%2A]Key Civ[/url] techs to reduce research costs)
    19. [url=http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=649]Oedo Year[/url] Revolutions (and [url=http://www.civfanatics.com/civ2sscsgs.shtml]here[/url])                    Allowed
         (Plan 1-turn revolutions - every 4th year)
    20. [b]Altering game rules                                 Disallowed[/b]
         (Nonstandard .txt files; a [b]major[/b] cheat) 
    21. Renaming cities                                     Allowed
         (Even AI cities)  
    22. Engineer Stack                                      Allowed
         (Use more than 2 engineers on a job)
    23. [url=http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=378235#post378235]Trade Advisor[/url] (Supply/Commodity/City Info)          Allowed  [size=1][FONT=times new roman](Post #11)[/FONT][/size]
         (Sup/Dmd --> Commodity --> "Cities Trading In")
    24. [b]Rehoming Caravans/Freight                           Disallowed[/b]  [size=1][FONT=times new roman](Post #144)[/FONT][/size]
         (Change the home city of Caravans & Freight) 
    25. Missile Patrol                                      Allowed  [size=1][FONT=times new roman](Post #22)[/FONT][/size]
         (use Cruise & Nuke Missiles to explore, patrol) 
    26. Incremental Rush Buy ([url=http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=365092#post365098]IRB[/url])                          Allowed  [size=1][FONT=times new roman](Post #22)[/FONT][/size]
         (Buy cheap unit, switch, buy, switch; saves gold)
    27. ZOC Avoidance (Zone Of Control)                     Allowed  [size=1][FONT=times new roman](Post #22)[/FONT][/size]
         (Move ground units thru a ZOC w/dip,spy,plane help)
    28. Double Left-Clicking Explored Terrain               Allowed  [size=1][FONT=times new roman](Post #22)[/FONT][/size]
         (If no terrain info pops up, it's a new city) 
    29. Paratrooper Scouting                                Allowed  [size=1][FONT=times new roman](Post #22)[/FONT][/size]
         (Use PT arrow to "see" if unit is on a land tile)
    30. [url=http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=381224#post381224]Double Growth[/url]                                       Allowed  [size=1][FONT=times new roman](Post #25)[/FONT][/size]
         (Grow by filled food box & Rep/Dem Celebration)
    31. [URL=http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=375623#post375623]Emissary's Ploy[/URL]                                     Allowed  [size=1][FONT=times new roman](Post #28)[/FONT][/size]
         (Avoid Senate interference in Democracy war)
    32. [URL=http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=393125#post393125]One City Challenge[/URL] (OCC & The [url=http://members.home.nl/paulvdb/occ.htm]Paulicy[/url])              Allowed  [size=1][FONT=times new roman](Post #33)[/FONT][/size]
         (OCC exceptions to GOTM gameplay are in Paulicy)
    33. [URL=http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=381751#post381751]Zero Turn Revolution[/URL] (ZTR)                          Allowed  [size=1][FONT=times new roman](Post #33)[/FONT][/size]
         (Use SoL to Switch between Fundy & Democracy)
    34. [URL="http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=635455&postcount=69"]<nil> Trade[/URL] ([URL="http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4622114&postcount=209"]Post #202-9[/URL])                           Allowed*  [size=1][FONT=times new roman](Post #209)[/FONT][/size]
         (Trade unit w/commodity already fulfilled in #1 slot)

    Notes, AKA "Fine Print":
    (next post)

    Revision History
    (next post)
  2. starlifter

    starlifter Deity

    Jun 17, 2001
    Notes, AKA "Fine Print":

    1. Techniques (and new additions) are, by default, allowed (unless there is already a known reference to the contrary).

    2. Disallowed techniques are generally not real "cheats"... they are simply the standardization by which the GOTMs need to be played. Example: creating a size 88 city in GOTM will cause that game to be disqualified... but making an unnaturally large city is not actually a "cheat"... it's just disallowed in the GOTMs. Another example: Even #20 is not a Cheat in scenarios; .TXT file changes are part of most scenarios.... but it's certainly not allowed in GOTMs (make sure scenario changes are not enabled in your GOTM: copy the standard RULES.TXT, etc. files into the directory where you play your GOTM .SAVs, and they will be used when you load the .SAVs in that same directory).

    3. If anyone is unclear on how to do any Techniques, feel free to ask (it's not uncool) -- everyone should have access the same knowledge level. :cool:

    4. If anyone locates GOTM references that have specifically disallowed any technique listed as "Allowed", please post it and the link, and we'll update the main list if it checks out.

    5. Members can cuss and discuss anything; if enough want a change of Status for a technique, then members should directly address the Admin (Duke of Marlbrough) via posts or PMs... The Admin will proceed as he desires, e.g., open a specific thread, do a poll, consider various input, etc. and ultimately decide the timing and scope of the change. Hypothetical example: "Pet Cities are no longer allowed beginning in GOTM 020"; then the item #17 status would be changed to "disallowed" and made boldface.

    6. The Admin (DoM) does have the final say on what is allowed and disallowed (not me, Starlifter), and the list will be changed to reflect any new Admin decisions in the future to keep the Status current.

    7. The Admin can feel free to directly edit this list (use Mod editing); just add a revision number at the top of this post & update the Revision History (below), plus make a post in the thread so this thread resurrects & everyone knows.

    ---------- Revision history -----------
    Rev. 1.00 16Jul02 - Initial list of 22.
    Rev. 1.01 17Jul02 - Fix spelling, punctuation, redundant "purpose" wording, "Find" clarification
    Rev. 1.02 17Jul02 - Added #23 & #24 (Old n Slow, Post #11); Add Asterisks to Status; Add 1st post references to Status; Add e-mail & deadline note (GaryNemo, Post #12); Many format & minor wording changes; relocate Preface; Added the notes after the list.
    Rev. 1.03 18Jul02 - Added #25, #26, #27, #28, #29 (Starlifter, Post #22).
    Rev. 1.04 19Jul02 - Added #30 (Starlifter, Post #25).
    Rev. 1.05 20Jul02 - Changed Duke's e-mail address to dom@civfanatics.net (old one was Duke@Civfanatics.net).
    Rev. 1.06 24Jul02 - Added #31 (Andu Indorin [via Starlifter], Post #28); added more Hyperlinks!!
    Rev. 1.07 25Jul02 - Added Key Civ, Tech Gift links & info in Post#21; distill Purpose & Scope
    Rev. 1.08 26Jul02 - Moved Notes & Revision History to next post because newly added links rapidly approaching the 15,000 character post limit; wording clarifications on some FCT items; Added asterisks to #10 & #11; Added #32 (OCC & Paulicy); Added #33 - Zero Turn Revolution (by Xin Yu via SL)
    Rev. 1.09 08Oct06 - Added #34, posts 69, 77, 201-209: <nil> trade as described by LordValuna
  3. Lucky

    Lucky Game- and Quizmaster

    Nov 6, 2001
    The use of the FIND CITY feature is NOT allowed as far as I know.

    Also I think that minimap exploit is not allowed either, although it not really is a cheat. If you investigate an enemy city in the real world, it is also most likely that you run across a map of their country. :yeah:

    Correct me if I´m wrong though, but the first one should be disallowed.
  4. starlifter

    starlifter Deity

    Jun 17, 2001
    I spent several hours, off and on, searching for references to these techniques, to find out what (if any) rulings or discussions have been made since the GOTM was founded. To the best of my knowledge, this is the current state of things. All of the "allowed" column has either been specifically allowed, or never disallowed (that I can find, or recall from GOTM experience).

    If you can locate specific references that actually disallow any "allowed" techniques, or allow any "disallowed", then definitely just post the links or reference.

    If there is discussion people would like to have (e.g., consider a new restriction, or remove an existing one), then feel free to post that too.... this is a good, central place to do it.

    Based on the change in rules that has occurred in the past (disallowing the previously allowed "airfield on a hill", or "airfields everywhere" rule), the GOTM players all discussed it, made their views known (these days, we can even do a poll, which was not possible until last September, btw). Then the Admin (Matrix in the Airfield case) made the final ruling.


    So for instance, if there is no restriction on the use of the "find city" function (which there never has been, as far as I can find), but people would like to consider one, then please feel free to discuss.

    I'm personally not against it... in fact, I never even though of it as anything but a normal game function. It's not even particularly a "technique" in my book, any more than looking at the Top 5 City screen and studying what the state of happiness, citizens, etc. of enemy cities is. The best cities in the world have more info available on them, and any city with a wonder is specifically singled out as a good city by the game, including making it a top 5 (if only 1,2,3,or4 other cities have a wonder already).... and also letting you peer into the darkeness for a general location.

    The AI knows your locations in any event, and you can't restrict them. If you doubt that, simply start a game, go into cheat mode, and watch the game functions. It will sent units to your cities across the map that it has not "discovered" yet, even non-Wonder and non-Top 5 cities, especially trade units. Many times, their units get stuck or killed along the way, but they are indeed going there and this can be seen on the unit's status (e.g., "Goto Washington")..

    Soooo..... my personal view is continue to use the Find (and Goto) functions. They are simply normal (deliberately programmed) game functions, and not even game "bugs".

    In fact, I personally consider #3 (Map Clicking) to be more of a technique or really even "bug", since it makes no sense to me that you should be able to tell what type of terrain & what continent (landmass) is in unexplored areas. Plus, this is not available in all versions of Civ.

    OK, so those are examples of discussion starters. If anyone know of actual rulings, post links.... and naturally, feel free to post your opinions about these first 22, and add more if you know of any (or have discovered some that you think ought to be discussed).

    In general, if something has not been disallowed, then it's de facto allowed. But these are the specific things I could find that have been discussed or ruled on (rulings usually are of a negation nature, that is "technique XXX is not allowed, begininning in GOTM YYY", like the Airfield on a Hill rule change.

  5. golem

    golem Warlord

    Sep 22, 2001
    Praha, Czech rep.
    I suppose map clicking should not be allowed - for real life it is nonsence.

    BTW, I have MGE version and Find City and Go to does not wotk - it alwayes go the wrong way. (In classic version it worked proparly). Does anybody have the same experience or can help me with some patch?
  6. Marlos

    Marlos Christian Soldier

    Nov 28, 2001
    Canton, MI, USA
    What is #7 (nuke trap)? Granted, I play the game with the intent of keeping the AI from gaining the ability to nuke me :nuke: , but I am curious. Please enlighten.

    BTW, I agree with the table as presented, as far as allowed/disallowed tactics are concerned.
  7. starlifter

    starlifter Deity

    Jun 17, 2001
    The Nuke Trap "traps" all incoming AI nukes, and destroys them.

    How? Well, at all times, the AI knows exactly which cities have SDI, and will never waste a nuke against a city that has SDI in it... and that goes for human or AI target cities.

    It does not know, however, if a city is protected by a nearby city's SDI. If you want a totally unfair advantage over the inadequate programming, try building a small city within 3 squares that has SDI, and leave the big juicy target without an SDI.

    Example.... in a non GOTM game I played a coupe years ago, built a size 1 city with an SDI in it to shield my big 32 size city... In one turn, 5 civilizations launched over 25 missiles against my 32 city. Of course, all missiles were shot down by SDI.

    This "SDI Trap" is grossly unfair to the inflexible AI logic, but it does "get even" for their seemingly infallible knowledge of exactly what to nuke!

    And that.... is the Nuke Trap :lol: ....
  8. Kev

    Kev Hired Goon

    Feb 23, 2001
    Ringwood, NJ USA

    I'm trying to come up with theoretical situations that could explain the use of some of these - like Lucky's thought about taking over a city and finding a map of that civ (which is fine with me).

    For the "find city" function, the only thing I can come up with is something like wanderers and traders moving through my lands speaking of great wonders that they have seen. "Where are they?" we would ask, and their replies would be to show me on my black-covered map. In fact, there would be no way to know how to get to that city - if one of the directional approaches is blocked or something.

    I still feel rather "cheatish" about it, and I choose not to use it, but I guess I can deal if some desire to use this function. The theory feels a bit 'stretched' in my mind.

    Like golem, I hate the right-clicking to see if a black square is land or sea. While it will only come into play in the early game on maps that include islands and more distant continents, I just cannot think that this is realistic. You could apply my earlier example and say that some weary traveller could point that out for you, but that sorta stretches things in my mind even more than the other.

    The only other issue I have, really, is the automate settler (K) to produce irrigation on squares that are not near water. So did the settlers/engineers dig for a well? To be this is just bogus.

    The rest of the 'alloweds' I have problems with at all.
  9. starlifter

    starlifter Deity

    Jun 17, 2001
    by Kev, about the Find Function:
    My main basis for having never thought of it as an issue is for several reasons.

    1. The game specifically track and reports other game info on Wonder cities that it does not do for other cities (esp. the Top Five City screen).

    2. You opponents possess and use this same info (all AIs in the game, that is).

    3. Everyone knows (or should know) if you build a Wonder, eveyone knows about it.

    4. The Find Function does not locate undiscovered, non-wonder cities.

    5. The manual talks in lots of places about protecting (even distributing) Wonders, with the context that they are big, juicy targets above all other cities (and it is right ;) ).

    6. Map swapping, exploring, alliances are how you get the best Intel & specifics, not Find.

    7. "Find City" is very vague & not availible until (if) a civ builds a Wonder, but map-clicking quite specific & available the entire game.

    I tend to look at Map Clicking as a somewhat "shady" technique (e.g., something that really has a "legit" knock against it) because:

    1. Not all versions of Civ can do it (and so not all players can utilize it).

    2. It is silly know what kind of terrain exisists in "undiscovered" territory.... (but not unreasonable to know of a "wonderous city" in the undiscovered territory).

    3. It is totally absurd to know by map clilcking in the blind if the landmass is separate, and indeed, if it is even attached to your own. Further, it can tell you of quantity of landmasses, and with patience, you can "map" then enitire game in BC4000!

    4. Triremes founder in the open water.... but map clicking can tell you if they can reach land. To me, that's clearly a contridiction.

    5. So I personally am not a map-clicker.

    About the Irrigation Everywhere... to me, I can't predict what the settler is going to do if I give it the K function. Hence, I don't automate. I can't afford to waste setter turns, as I ration every work day, esp. in early game. I simply do not (at least, rarely) build in areas that can't grow in early game. Engineers and Refrigeration can solve anything later on ;).

    Basically, as long as someone does not reload if the settelr does something squirrely with the K, then I'm not really opposed to it at this point.... it should generally cause more harm than good. And even if it does work for some people, the risk is available to all players, plus the AI does it routinely (and reliably).
  10. sekong

    sekong Net Surfer

    Feb 3, 2001
    I rarely use that city search function. But according to Kev and starlift said, I agree the idea that Wonder city finding is OK. For reasons starlift given above, and the short story from Kev, I think it make perfect sense that you can have a rough idea where the wonder city located. The fact that you can only search for wonder city, not other unrevealed cities hints it's an intentional design by the game designer. Unlike others, such map clicking tech., it's not a game bug. We should have no problem to use it.
  11. Old n Slow

    Old n Slow Emperor

    Feb 4, 2002
    Vienna, VA, USA
    Two other things I’ve discovered that I want to add to the list:

    The first is minor -- one time I went through the entire product list to see what was demanded -- this list was incomplete (not every civ had trade yet) but it did share the info of a) what civs (ie the light blues were Americans) with trade existed & b) how many cities (Wash, NY, & Boston were in the game) they have. I don’t think that this is a big deal either way, since the better players really don’t need this info & the rest of us have more important lessons to learn & put into use.

    The second is major -- Rehoming of caravans. GOTM 17 is the first time I used this (I recall some previous discourse & thought that we were NOT supposed to do this -- now I know better). I think that this is a MAJOR technique
    :eek: that the better traders do automatically & the payoff is dramatic.
  12. GaryNemo

    GaryNemo Settler from None

    Feb 14, 2002
    Ohio, GMT-4
    Rehoming of Caravans is of course allowed.

    I have an old Civ 10-08-1996, and the Find Wonder City does not seem to work. I can click "All Players", but it does not show Athens, even though it built a Wonder according to F7.

    And I tried Right Clicking the black squares, it says "Unexplored" or some such, but does not seem to tell me land or sea. Maybe I just don't know how to use this trick.

    Anyway, just because my version of the program doesn't do it, doesn't mean it shouldn't be allowed.

    I understand that #1 Airbases, 4 Triremes, 10 Multiple Food Caravans, 12 Unnatural, and reload, replay, alter rules are not allowed. That all makes sense.

    Do whatever you all want. I'm glad this is a central clearing house for the official rules. Add to it, the submission EMail and deadline and you'd have everything I've occasionally searched for.
  13. starlifter

    starlifter Deity

    Jun 17, 2001
    Some have asked about Map Clicking. Here is how to do it and how to interpret it :).

    This works in Classic (2.42), FW (2.62), CiC (2.78), and MGE (5.4.0f). I could not test ToT. If it does not work in your version, you need to apply teh most recent patch (see the CFC downloads section).

    @ GaryNemo: The Find City works in all versions listed above; I can't test earlier than 2.42... but you should update your game, as there are differences in earlier versions than 2.42. :)
  14. starlifter

    starlifter Deity

    Jun 17, 2001
    by Old n Slow:
    Done.... #23 & #24.

    by GaryNemo:
    Done.... note at top of 1st post.

  15. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    May 29, 2002
    Michigan, USA
    Thank you Starlifter for explaining the map clicking with images. I now understand what it is all about. I too think this should be disallowed.

    I also think #5, Irrigation anywhere, should be disallowed; but I also agree with Startlifer that this is a very unpredictable and minor advantage.

    Could someone please explain 23. I know what the Supply/Demand screen reports, but I cannot figure out why it is listed here. What is so special about it?
  16. starlifter

    starlifter Deity

    Jun 17, 2001
    No problem. We should all know the same info :).

    You can determine the supply and demand (& city size) of undiscovered Capitals by using the Trade Advisor --> Supply & Demand --> Select Cargo. Personally, I view it as a minor thing, and deliberately programmed (not a bug); but it is something that everyone should be aware of, and feel free to comment on. It's not something I use, and I don't trade based on city size in early game, but distance and demand. In mid and late game, I map swap and know exactly where each city is, and incoming caravans update the actual screen map with the city size.

    But.... there is another issue in addition to what Old n Slow mentioned. Once you discover a city, if you don't "update" it (your units, map swaps, Apollo, etc), you won't see the city size change on your map when the city size actually changes.... but you can look here to discover the "true" sizes for discovered cities. This particular aspect is not how I would have programmed the game, as it does seem inconsistent (e.g., map not being updated, but tediously looking thru trade advisor can yield the true city size). Be that as it may, it's not something of particular importance, at least to me personally.

  17. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

    Jun 1, 2002
    St. Petersburg, Florida
    This is an interesting thread, just noticed it, it basically answers all the questions I had that I asked in my "Spolier Thread" post...
  18. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

    Jun 1, 2002
    St. Petersburg, Florida
    I was just browsing and noticed this posted by Duke of Marlbourgh in another thread, could someone explain these rules/techniques and how and to what extent they work/effect the game...

    Narz :king:
  19. starlifter

    starlifter Deity

    Jun 17, 2001

    Its not a rule... but by giving the Key Civ techs, decreases the science penalties that the human faces at high difficultly leves, Deity in particular.

    If your Power rating is Supreme, the corresponding Key Civ is the Purple Civ. If you are Pathetic (like in OCC games), the Key Civ is White. If your rating is somewhere in between, I don't worry about it... I just get my civ to either Pathetic or Supreme, and keep it there so the Key Civ is not changing. If you can't keep your power at one rating, then just gift all civs all science (that you choose to part with, that is). Ensuring all civs have all known science is like jumping out of an airplane at 5,000 feet, and suddenly not being able to recall if your Parachute was properly packed... the game will usually accelerate at warp speed, and if you can't keep up, the AIs will squash you like an insect (and build most of the wonders, too ;) ). :lol:

    Knowing what to gift when takes experience, becauses some things backfire. Speedy science also reduces the value of some wonders, too.

    In early game, I don't worry about the Key Civ... it changes too often and too fast. If I want to swap, I do. If I want a Civ's maps, I gift and swap to get them. Once my Power Rating hits Mighty, then Supreme, I keep it there (grow grow grow), either in # of cities or size (or mixture/ combination). When it looks stable, then I start thinking about Tech Gifting to the Key Civ (Purple, at Supreme) to speed up my science at Deity.

    Lot of posts in various places give other people's ideas about how & how much to do this (Search is a good way to pull it up), but this is how I apply it.
  20. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

    Jun 1, 2002
    St. Petersburg, Florida
    Thanks for the info. I like to give the AI the gift of Trade personally, that way the AI hopefully will build some trade routes for me (which I get when I capture their cities) :D

    One more question? Whats with this "key civ" thing, why do they do it that way, just curious?


    - Narz :king:

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