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GOTM114 - First Spoiler

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Game of the Month' started by civ_steve, Jul 4, 2011.

  1. civ_steve

    civ_steve Deity Retired Moderator GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2002
    Messages:
    3,866
    Location:
    formerly Santa Clarita, California

    GOTM 114 - First spoiler, Ottomans, the Ancient Age



    Reading Requirements:

    1. Must be able to research a Middle Ages Technology.

    Posting restrictions

    1. Feel free to discuss distant contacts and trades, but be discreet about locations or directions of any AI.
    2. No discussion of middle-ages (or later) including resource locations.
    3. AS ALWAYS, do not post Spoiler information for ANY other 'X'OTM contest.


    What decisions did you make regarding establishing your capital? You have a decent sized starting landmass, but you aren't alone; how are things going with your nearest neighbor? And how did contacts go with the remaining civs? Any good trades? Position entering the Middle Ages - all good, or do you have more work to do?
     
  2. PaperBeetle

    PaperBeetle Emperor

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2004
    Messages:
    1,660
    Location:
    London
    So Far, Sogut, So What?
    Aiming for 20k again, I use the worker to start looking around to see if there is a good spot on both coast and river. Indeed, there is: with all the hills around, I see a couple such options to the south of the starting position. I decide to put my capital in the 5-food spot, and the 20k city (Istanbul, of course) 2S of there. The 5-food spot may not be capable of 4-turn settlers, but it sure can do 2-turn workers to boost Istanbul's population. Sogut is founded 3950bc, and builds 2 axes then a settler. Istanbul is founded 2710bc, and immediately starts wonder-building. It's always nice to have Masonry, so Pyramids are available from the outset. When I meet Monty in 3350bc, I trade for Burial, and later give him Alphabet for Bronze, so my first real wonder target is Colossus.

    Into the Inevitable
    The barbs are everywhere. I rashly pop a hut in the southeast to generate three of them, and more start pouring in from east, west and north. The Aztecs are everywhere too, perhaps drawn in by the barbs, perhaps with murder in mind. Either way, come 1525bc, there is an archer/jaguar combo sitting next to Sogut, and I have only two axes left, desperately trying to keep the barb horses out of Istanbul, which is half way through Colossus. The third town is ready, founded in the wine hills to the west, and hurriedly working on military, but I have no recourse to prevent the events of the next turn. Monty dows, takes Sogut in 1500bc, and starts sending streams of archers in to reinforce his attack. This is the start of a grudge match.

    Stick or Twist?
    Stick. I know Monty has more than enough troops barracked in Sogut to take Istanbul from my single defending axe, but I'm just going to have to gamble that such a thought never crosses his tiny RAM mind. In the west, Uskudar is cranking out troops, but it can't help Istanbul; the Aztec archers are circling round to the west, so Uskudar is basically trading archers 1:1 with the Aztecs, just to stay in the game. My faith in Monty's incompetence is justified, and Istanbul completes Colossus in 1175bc, unmolested, after which it is time to start churning out troops to try and retake my old capital. Istanbul can scrape together 10spt at -1fpt, so 2-turn archers are the order of the day.

    QSC Stats
    I didn't take proper notes, skipping through 1000bc, as I usually do when in A World Of Pain. But approximately it would have been...
    2 towns with 10 citizens and 27 tiles.
    1 barracks, 1 Colossus.
    1 worker, 1 spear, 3 archers, 2 axes; a mix of regs and vets.
    Bronze, Ironwork, Masonry, Alphabet, Writing, Literature, War Code, Burial, researching Laws.
    1 contact. Wines hooked.
    Istanbul at 42 culture, +4cpt.

    Incremental Revenge, Step 1
    By the seventh century bc, I have secured the Uskudar area, at least from the Aztecs, though there are unaddressed barb camps in the west. I have a gang of about 8 units free to go on the offfensive, so I head north out of Istanbul, and try to reclaim Sogut. My attack succeeds in 590bc, but the expeditionary force is pretty toasted by the effort. There's no way I'm going to make any further progress, especially as Istanbul needs to get its focus back to culture. I give Monty peace for Mysticism. By this time, Pyramids and Oracle have both been built elsewhere.

    Incremental Revenge, Step 2
    In the next 20 turns, Istanbul builds its temple and library, while Sogut finally gets to perform its intended task of producing workers to improve Istanbul's land, and then join the city. Uskudar works on troops for my next war, and I settle my fourth town by the northwestern iron. As soon as the 20-turn peace deal is over, I redeclare, and send my mixed stack of archers and swords against the nearest Aztec town, Xochicalco, which lies in the hills northeast of Sogut. I take it, but again, my army is annihilated in the process. The actual capture falls to the stack's escort spear, surviving his attack at 2/4hp.

    My Enemy's Friend is My Friend
    Despite running out of military again, it is far too soon to open negotiations with Monty, so the war goes a bit cold. Foolishly, he does remedy my failure to build any ships by introducing me to Abu in 90bc. From Abu, I can buy Wheel, Mapping, Maths and Riding. My Republic research completes in 50bc, and the new government is operational by 10ad. After Monty kindly introduces me to Ragnar, I finally decide to give him a break, and trade peace for Currency (which I had mostly researched already) and contact with Shaka. From here, I trade in all the contacts except France, and all remaining ancient techs. I reach the medieval in 130ad, but I'm not the first - the barbs are swarming, and there are at least three active camps on my continent. There's going to be some serious pillaging some time soon!

    Istanbul: 463 culture, makes 13cpt.
    2710bc: Founded
    1500bc: Received palace (on Monty's mainturn - first palace culture would be my 1500>1475bc interturn, I think)
    1175bc: Colossus
    0550bc: library
    0390bc: temple
     
  3. Raliuven

    Raliuven Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,428
    Location:
    Minnesota
    I'll I've got to says is stupid &#%#@ Settler Factory. One more fpt or spt and it would have worked. I mistook the FP for being +4fpt irrigated. So much for that. Regardless I turned Sugot into a 5t SF, occasionally pushing out a warrior for a 6t warrior/settler.

    VC
    Last set was Diplomacy, I think I'll stick with Space Launches for this set. The Ottomans are going to AC!

    Beginning
    Decide to move one space east and settle. Set worker to mass irrigation but barbs quickly got in the way and I ended up building 4 warriors before starting my granary. I spend most of my time scouting the area and shuffling warriors around to ward off barbs.

    First Encounter
    I encounter the Aztecs in 3300 BC trying to grab a GH. I make it first and - with my normal luck, generate 3 angry barbs. My luck turns when the barbs flawlessly retreat the Aztecs and then chase him down! They don't even attack my warrior. I think this sets the tone for the Aztec's luck. In 1500 BC I establish an embassy with the Aztecs and, even though they only have 3 cities, the capital has begun the Colossus. That pretty much spells the end for the Aztecs.

    I have actually proved rather lucky against the barbs this game - I haven't experienced much loss.

    Growth
    It felt pretty slow to me. In 2150 BC I place Iznik on a hill with grapes thinking it would allow irrigation to pass through - but it is a bust. My worker spends a lot of time routing water towards the west. 3rd city in 1910 BC. Settle 1st ring at RCP4 and 2nd ring RCP8. 3rd ring is sloppy at 10-12 spacing.

    QSC Stats
    8 cities, population: 23, 1 settler, 4 workers, 13 warriors, 2 archers, 1 galley. Income 39gpt, treasury 98gp. Contacts: Only Aztecs. Embassy: Aztecs. Research BW, Masonry, Alpha, Pottery, Wheel, WC, CB, IW, Writing, Myst, Lit, MM, HBR. CoL due in 5t. 1 granary, 1 barracks.

    After 1000 BC
    I establish contact with Spain in 825 BC, France in 730 BC, Vikings in 650 BC, Zulu & Russia in 590 BC, and finally Arabia in 560 BC. Except for the Zulu and Russian, no one knows each other and I play the tech trade game for a long time. Exiting the AA I am still playing the middleman in some cases. I have to say this is an excellent tech trading position.

    In 610 BC the Aztecs finish the Pyramids after losing out on the Colossus - I couldn't have asked for a better gift. They have 4 cities. I wage a quick 1st war from 590BC - 510BC and take 2 Aztec cities. I renew the war after 20 turns and exiting the AA I am at war with the Aztecs and they are on the ropes. I have my sights on a free set of pyramids. I do have a bad run of luck against Aztec spears with all the hills they have and it slows my advance considerably. But at the dawn of the Middle Ages, I am poised to take Tenochtitlan and the pyramids.

    Revolt in 470 BC and draw a 7 turn anarchy. Curse my luck but become a Republic in 330 BC. NOW Sogut is a SF. Thanks.

    I dominate the tech trade and I have just about all the money on the board - about 1000gp. Ener the Middle Ages in 50 BC.

    Log 4000 BC - 50 BC
    Spoiler :
    Ottomans –Scientific/Industrious

    4000 BC – move worker NE, Settler E.
    3950 BC – worker starts irrigation. Settler founds Sogut. Start warrior for scouting. Set research to pottery at max – due in 14t. MM citizen to plain that worker is improving.
    3850 BC – irrigation done, start road.
    3750 BC – road complete, worker N to P+W
    3700 BC – warrior builds, decide to send him W. Worker irrigates wheat.
    3650 BC – warrior W, spot grapes. Nice.
    3600 BC – worker road. Warrior W.
    3550 BC – warrior NW.
    3500 BC – road done worker SE to plain. Warrior N.
    3450 BC – Warrior builds. Start warrior. MM worker back to plain for extra gold. Worker irrigates plain. Warrior #2 E. Warrior #1 N. We’ve got coastal tiles. Turn research down to 50%, pottery in 2t @ +2gpt.
    3400 BC – Warrior #1 NW. Warrior #2 SE.
    3350 BC – pottery comes in, set for granary after next warrior builds. Start Alpha at max, due in 23t @ 0gpt. Worker starts road. Decided I should have started a mine instead of irrigating. Oh well. Warrior #2 SE. Spots GH. Warrior #1 SE.
    3300 BC – meet the Aztec trying to get my GH. They are up WC & CB. We have BW, Masonry and Pottery. Trade WC & CB & all 10gp for Masonry & Pottery. Hold back BW. Warrior #2 to GH. Pick up 3 angry barbs. That’s my luck! I’m on a hill, Mr. Aztec is not. Hopefully they go after him instead of me. Warrior #1 E. I’ve got a warrior due in 1t in Sogut.
    IBT – Barb forces Aztec to flawlessly retreat. Other barbs start moving north.
    3250 BC - Decide to build 1 more warrior before Granary. Hate it, but needs to be done. Worried I can’t protect worker on FP, so I move him S to P to work towards next P+W. Warrior #1 N. Warrior #2 SW.
    IBT – just off screen it looks as if the Aztec tries to attack the barb and fails. Good news for me. Other barbs start to spread out. That’s good for me too.
    3200 BC – Warrior #2 SW. Worker set to mine. Warrior #1 N, spots GH.
    3150 BC – Warrior #2 N to protect worker. Warrior #1 to GH. 3 angry barbs. Great.
    IBT – One barb dies to Warrior #1. Others move towards Sogut.
    3100 BC – Warrior #1 E to attack barb – flawless victory. Warrior #2 NW to attack barb – flawless victory.
    3050 BC – Warrior builds, start granary due in 15t. Warrior #2 SE to attack barb – win, -1hp. 3 down. Warrior #1 NE. Warrior #3 fortifies in city. Warrior #4 NE. Alpha due in 13t @ -1gpt.
    3000 BC – Warrior #2 fortifies to heal. Warrior #3 NE. Spot barb & hill w/gold. Warrior #1 N.
    2950 BC – Wealthiest nations report comes in an Ottomans rank as #3. Worker done mine/road, move to P+W. Warrior #3 E. Warrior #2 W to cover worker. Warrior #1 N. Aztecs have BW now.
    2900 BC – worker irrigates. Warrior #2 W. Warrior #3 N. Warrior #1 NW.
    IBT – two barbs meet on mountain for a retreat.
    2850 BC - Warrior #3 N. If they attack it will be across a river with my warrior on a hill. Warrior #2 SW. Sights a whale. Warrior #1 NW.
    IBT – both barbs attack and die, warrior #3 is now a veteran, -1hp. Fortify to heal.
    2800 BC - Worker start road. Warrior #2 N. Warrior #1 NW.
    2750 BC – Warrior #2 W. Warrior #3 N. Warrior #1 N. MM worker to P+M for extra shield and = growth.
    2710 BC – lux to 10%. MM back to P+I for now. Growth in 5t, granary in 6t. No good, will need to watch that. Send worker back to FP. Realize my count if off – Irrigated FP is only worth 3fpt, not 4fpt. Not sure it can be a settler factory now. Hmm. So close. Warrior #2 W. Ha, wheat & cow. Nice. Need to settle on grapes to get irrigation there, but it is RCP4. Warrior #3 NE. See Aztec boarders. Warrior #1 NE.
    2670 BC – Worker to FP. Warrior #2 SW. Warrior #3 NE. Warrior #1 E. Alpha in 4t @ -1gpt.
    2630 BC – Warrior #3 E. Warrior #1 S. Warrior #2 SW. MM P+I to H for 1 turn.
    2590 BC – warrior #3 SE. Warrior #1 SE. Warrior #2 SW.
    2550 BC – Worker > road. Warrior #2 SE. See some lovely land! Warrior #3 SE. Warrior #1 S.
    2510 BC – Warrior #3 E. Warrior #1 SE. Warrior #2 S.
    2470 BC – Learn Alpha. Start Writing. Granary builds, start settler. Worker SW to P. Warrior #3 E. Warrior #1 E. Warrior #2 SW.
    2430 BC – Worker roads. Warrior #2 N. Warrior #1 S. Warrior #3 N. See barb. Aztecs have nothing to trade. Lux 20%, Science 70%, writing in 26t.
    2390 BC – Warrior #3 N. Warrior #1 S. Warrior #2 starts back to cover settler in the queue.
    2350 BC – Warrior #3 fends off Barb attack, NE. Find barb camp. All settlers need an escort now. Warrior #1 S. Worker crosses river. Warrior #2 returning home. Warrior #1 S. Warrior #3 attacks barb camp – win, -2hp. Bump up research on barb gold.
    2270 BC – Settler builds, start warrior. People offer to mow the grass. Send settler W towards grapes w/warrior escort. Warrior #1 SE. Warrior #3 fortify. Knock back research a little. Aztecs have the wheel. Trade them alpha and 10gp. Visible horses are a bit of a walk away . . .
    2230 BC – Warrior #1 SE. Settler/warrior W.
    2190 BC &#8211; Warrior #1 E. Warrior #3 NW. Warrior builds in Sogut < settler. Settler/Warrior W. There is a barb on the opposing hill. Cross fingers and press enter . . .
    IBT &#8211; barb attacks warrior covering settler (of course) &#8211; loses, -1hp to warrior.
    2150 BC &#8211; Warrior #2 joins Warrior #4. Settler founds Iznik on grapes the same round that the worker completes the road. We now have grapes! Worker mine hill. Warrior #1 SE. Warrior #3 NW. Luxury to 10%, research to 80%, writing in 14t. Check on the Aztecs, they still have 1 city. There is a barb warrior near Iznik.
    Iznik<warrior.
    IB T &#8211; there are now 2 warriors near Iznik.
    2110 BC &#8211; Warrior #1 SE. Warrior #3 NW. Got a good view of the Aztecs &#8211; they look very underdeveloped.
    IBT &#8211; barb attacks Iznik &#8211; flawless loss.
    2070 BC &#8211; People decide to install steps up to my cave. Warrior #1 SE. Warrior #3 NW.
    IBT &#8211; second barb attacks but dies flawlessly. Barb comes up from the south to pester Sogut. Aztecs found 2nd city.
    2030 BC &#8211; Warrior #1 S. Warrior #3 E. Send warrior #2 to Sogut. Aztecs have a worker but I can&#8217;t buy him.
    IBT &#8211; Barb out walking around.
    1990 BC &#8211; Warrior #2 escorts Settler to next city site RCP4. Start warrior. Warrior #1 S. Warrior #3 N. Can see land across the sea . Aztecs still have a worker for sale. Must be hiding from barbs.
    1950 BC &#8211; Iznik warrior < worker. Send new warrior to confront southern barb. Second settler is in place. Warrior #1 S. Warrior #3 starts back home. Swap Sogut warrior to worker.
    IBT &#8211; southern barb dies to warrior.
    1910 BC &#8211; Sogut worker < warrior. Move to plain w/road. Irrigate. Warrior returns to Iznik. Warrior in Iznik escorts worker to BG. Found 3rd city. Warrior #1 SW. Warrior #3 will continue down and to the east if possible.
    IBT &#8211; Aztecs start Colossus. Good, I hope they finish it for me.
    1870 BC &#8211; Iznik will not allow irrigation to cross via river. Grr. Worker road. Warrior #1 SW.
    1830 BC &#8211; 2nd worker moves to city #3 FP. Warrior #1 SE.
    1790 BC &#8211; 1st worker finishes road, moves to tile N of Iznik to road. Need to channel water through these hills. Warrior #1 SE.
    1750 BC &#8211; Iznik worker < warrior. Move worker to Hill +grapes. Worker roads N of Iznik. Warrior #1 SW.
    IBT &#8211; barb warrior stalks warrior #1.
    1725 BC &#8211; Warrior #1 S.
    IBT &#8211; barb warrior suicides against Warrior #1.
    1700 BC &#8211; 4th settler builds. Send settler w/warrior to city site that will have ocean access. Writing <MM. Warrior #1 SW.
    IBT &#8211; I get billing as the 5th wealthiest nation. So much for my bond rating. Barb from the North appears.
    1675 BC &#8211; move settler N. Warrior #1 S. Sees GH. Do I dare?
    1650 BC &#8211; take a risk and move settler around barb and put in place with warrior covering. Use Warrior #4 to attack barb threatening settler &#8211; win, -1hp. Worker is unprotected but the coast is clear. Warrior #1 to GH. Learn Mysticism.
    1625 BC &#8211; settle 4th city on ocean. Warrior #1 E.
    1600 BC &#8211; send warrior to finish exploring the W and search for barbs &#8211; one move puts him next to a barb camp with 2 barbs. Warrior #1 SE. Aztecs have IW. Offer Writing for IW & 31gp. Hmm . . going to have to work for iron too.
    IBT &#8211; 2 barb horses scatter from barb camp. Great.
    1575 BC &#8211; move worker to safety. Warrior attacks barb camp &#8211; wins but redline with 2 barb horses around him. At least he&#8217;s on a hill. Collect 25gp. Warrior #1 E. Hahaha &#8211; see my warrior was standing on iron source. That works!
    IBT &#8211; barb horse suicides against Iznik. Second horse stays put.
    1550 BC &#8211; Warror forts on hill. Sogut settler<settler. Settler sent west to promised land. Aztecs still have 3 cities and I have Myst up on them and nearly all the gold.
    IBT &#8211; Second barb horse suicides on Iznik.
    1525 BC &#8211; Send settler W with warrior escort from Inzik. Swap Iznik&#8217;s worker build for warrior. Warriors #1 & #3 converge in the south and find a barb camp and GH &#8211; and horses.
    IBT &#8211; Aztec archer appears north of Izmit. War already?
    1500 BC &#8211; send settler W with 2 warrior escorts. Warrior #3 to GH. Learn HBR! Warrior #1 converges on barb camp. Build an embassy with the Aztecs for 32gp. They are building the Colossus in Tenochtitlan, their best city (7spt, 2fpt, 7gpt), 2 spears. 17 turns left on Colossus. If they want war, they&#8217;re going to get owned.
    IBT &#8211; Aztec archer moves around my boarders. Barb camp releases a horse that goes north around my warriors.
    1475 BC &#8211; Warrior #1 attacks barb camp &#8211; win, redline. Warrior #3 chases horse. Settler is in place for 5th city.
    IBT &#8211; barb horse turns back to attack warrior #3 and dies, -1hp.
    1450 BC &#8211; both warriors fortify to heal.
    IBT &#8211; barbs advance on Aydin (city #5)
    1425 BC &#8211; Sogut settler < settler. 5 turn settler factory Send it S with warrior escort. Need to keep luxury at 20%. Aztecs still have 3 cities.
    IBT &#8211; warrior forts on wheat.
    1400 BC &#8211; 3/3 warrior vs 2/2 barb &#8211; win, redline. Aztecs have Myst. I&#8217;m still up HBR.
    IBT &#8211; Aztec archer is back in the north.
    1375 BC &#8211; pull back wounded warrior, advance fresh warrior against barb camp. My military leader says we are strong vs the Aztecs, so I am guessing they will not be looking to start a war. Found 6th city.
    1350 BC &#8211; 3/3 warrior vs 2/2 barb &#8211; lose. First archer builds.
    IBT &#8211; Aztec archer keeps moving around.
    1325 BC &#8211; zzz. Building barracks.
    IBT &#8211; Zulu complete Colossus, that means the Aztecs just bought a granary or barracks.
    1300 BC &#8211; Sogut settler<settler. Send settler E to meet returning Warrior #3. Send worker S to connect roads. RCP is almost complete. Aztecs still have 3 cities. I&#8217;m up HBR & MM. Set to Lit.
    IBT &#8211; Aztecs swap to Pyramids. Good, hope they get it!
    1225 BC &#8211; 7th city founded.
    IBT &#8211; barb horse attacks warrior covering worker &#8211; and flawlessly fails. Need to destroy that camp. Sigh, Aztec archer moves into my territory.
    1200 BC &#8211; tell Aztecs to leave. Agree to leave but stand around.
    1175 BC &#8211; Sogut settler<settler. Move settler NW. Swap Izmit to galley due in 2t.
    1125 BC &#8211; galley builds and moves out &#8211; and stops next to barb galley. Sigh. I hate early naval battles. Finally disperse western barb camp.
    IBT &#8211; galley survives contact with barbs. Send north.
    1075 BC &#8211; Lit comes in. Set for CoL due in 10t @ -2gpt. For some reason an Aztec worker has walked all the way down to my doorstep to start irrigating. Nice.
    1050 BC &#8211; settle 8th city. Sogut settler<settler. Send settler E. Swap Iznit to a library to expand boarders and pick up iron.
    IBT &#8211; get FP message.

    QSC Stats

    8 cities, population: 23, 1 settler, 4 workers, 13 warriors, 2 archers, 1 galley. Income 39gpt, treasury 98gp. Contacts: Only Aztecs. Research BW, Masonry, Alpha, Pottery, Wheel, WC, CB, IW, Writing, Myst, Lit, MM, HBR. CoL due in 5t. 1 granary, 1 barracks.

    *******

    950 BC &#8211; galley crosses to next island &#8211; spots barbs.
    925 BC &#8211; Warrior #1 dies attacking a barb. Found City #9. Sogut settler<settler. Send Settler west.
    900 BC &#8211; Aztecs found their 4th city.
    850 BC &#8211; see blue boarders! Lose a warrior to barbs. Pick up CoL. Start Phil.
    825 BC &#8211; Sogut settler<settler. Send settler to the east (?). Meet spain. They are very, very backwards. They don&#8217;t know anyone but they have 7 cities. Good for them! Trade them Myst for WM & 39gp.
    800 BC &#8211; iron connected, start building swords to kill the Aztecs. Aztecs come up with phil &#8211; trade them CoL for Phil, 4gp & WM. Start on republic at full speed &#8211; 19t @ -4gpt.
    775 BC &#8211; two more galleys build. Send them in different directions.
    730 BC &#8211; Contact the French. They have 11 cities and are behind in techs. They&#8217;ve got spices but we can&#8217;t trade. Need to build a harbor. Give them CoL for 150gp & WM. Wow, France had a pretty nice start. Three FP+W? How is that fair?
    690 BC &#8211; Sogut settler<settler. Send settler S.
    IBT &#8211; Ottomans are said to be the happiest people in the world, just behind the French.
    670 BC &#8211; hire a clown in Aydin.
    650 BC &#8211; meet the Vikings. They don&#8217;t know anyone. They have 10 cities and are up Poly. They don&#8217;t even know the alphabet. Sell them alpha for 65gp. For writing they will give me 95gp and WM. Buy Poly & 9gp for CoL & Phil. Give Spain Masonry for WM & 5gp.
    IBT (610 BC) &#8211; the Aztecs finish the pyramids. THANK YOU! Zulu finish the Oracle.
    590 BC &#8211; DOW on Aztecs. Send 2 swords and 2 archers to Teotihuacan. Meet the Zulu. They have 7 cities and know the Russians. Offer CoL & Poly for Contact with the Russians, TM & 70gp. Russia will give me the WM & all 84gp for Poly. I have a galley set to meet Arabia next round.
    IBT &#8211; Arabia contact me, what to give me his TM for my TM and MM. Umm. No thanks. How about Your WM & 109gp for poly?
    550 BC &#8211; battle for Teotihuacan &#8211; 4/4 sword vs 3/3 spear &#8211; flawless win. 3/3 archer vs 3/3 spear &#8211; lose, -2hp, promotes spear. 4/4 sword vs 2/4 spear &#8211; win, -1hp. Raze the city (RC7). Trade spain phil for WM & 31gp.
    510 BC &#8211; offer peace treat to Aztecs for Tlateloco & WM. Republic due next turn and then I&#8217;ll kill them, hopefully before anyone meets them. Or I&#8217;ll wait 20t to finish them off while I fill the rest of the continent.
    490 BC &#8211; pick up Republic &#8211; wait 1 turn for settler to build.
    470 BC &#8211; revolt. Draw 7 turns. Of course.
    430 BC &#8211; Joan has come up with Math, bless her heart. Give her Ploy for math, 32gp & WM. Turn around and sell math to the Vikings for WM & 49gp. I find it ironic that it was the viking&#8217;s poly that I sold to the French to get math and now I&#8217;m selling math to the Vikings. It&#8217;s great being the middle man!
    390 BC &#8211; trade Aztecs poly for WM & 25gp.
    350 BC &#8211; Zulu have math so I trade it to Russia for WM & 11gp.
    330 BC &#8211; The Ottomans are a republic. Peace treaty still has 11t. Will build SW for attack. Should have a stack of 7 or 8 by then. Decide that the Vikings, Zulu and Arabia do not serve a fast spaceship launch. Arabia will be my first victim after the Aztecs are seen off; they&#8217;ve got two luxuries. Then Russia needs to win over the Zulu. Vikings will be good 2nd core. Tech for luxury trades may be very important this game. If someone comes up with construction, I will trade lit or republic. MM is out, so Civs will start meeting soon.
    310 BC &#8211; rush a worker at Adana for 24gp. Rush a worker in Tlatelolco for 24gp. Currency in 4t @ -11gpt.
    270 BC &#8211; lux up to 30%.
    250 BC &#8211; Currency comes in. Set to construction due in 10t.
    230 BC &#8211; Rush a settler in Aydin for 28gp. Rush a worker in Adana for 28gp.
    IBT &#8211; Aztec horseman appears, but Texcoco is still unconnected from Aztec capital. I currently have 11 swords.
    210 BC &#8211; see that Arabia has established a city on MY Island. Now they really need to die.
    190 BC &#8211; upgrade vet warrior to sword for 40gp. Disperse barb camp. See that Arabian city is guarded by a warrior.
    150 BC &#8211; found a city on the south western island.
    130 BC &#8211; lose a galley to barbs. See the France knows the Zulu. Sell them Literature for all they have &#8211; WM & 62gp. Zulu and Russia both know this tech. The Zulu have not give France contact with the Russians yet.
    110 BC &#8211; sell lit to the Aztecs for WM & 76gp. That removes all their gold. DOW on Aztecs. Immediately capture 2 workers. Advance 5 swords on Tlaxcala, 3 swords and 1 archer against the Tenochtitlan. More swords are being created. Two cities can turn out a sword in 3t.
    90 BC &#8211; 4/4 sword vs 3/3 horse covering a settler - flawlessly force a retreat and pick up 2 slaves from the settler the horse was covering. 3/3 warrior vs 1/3 horse &#8211;flawless victory, promote warrior to vet.
    Battle for Tlaxcala 4/4 sword vs 3/3 spear &#8211; lose, -1hp to spear. 4/4 sword vs 3/3 spear &#8211; win, -1hp to sword. 4/4 sword vs 2/3 spear &#8211; flawless win. Capture Tlaxcala &#8211; it is RCP8 so I will keep it. Move 3 swords and 1 archer against capital.
    Sell Araia Phil for WM & 54gp. Sell Spain WM & 53gp for CoL.
    IBT &#8211; oddly, the Aztecs send a spear to go to Tlaxcala &#8211; it is protected by 3 swords. What is it planning to do? It abandoned Tenochtitlan???
    70 BC &#8211; Battle for Tenochtitlan &#8211; darn hill towns -4/4 sword vs 4/4 spear &#8211; lose, -1hp to spear, promotes. 4/4 sword vs 4/5 spear &#8211; win but redline. 4/4 sword vs 3/3 spear &#8211; win, redline. 4/4 archer vs 3/3 spear &#8211; lose, redline spear but it promotes. By Tlaxcala &#8211; 4/4 sword vs 3/3 spear &#8211; lose, spear is redlined. 4/4 sword vs 1/3 spear &#8211; win, -1hp. Move 3/3 sword towards capital.
    Give Vikings Lit for WM & 101gp. France has republic &#8211; sell Zulu Republic for WM & 52gp.
     
  4. Memento

    Memento The World is mine

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2003
    Messages:
    875
    Location:
    Bremen/Germany
    Ohh, i hate this kind of maps. the third map in a row with bad land and no fun.
    i stop and hope for the next game.
     
  5. Scratcher

    Scratcher Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    Messages:
    1,441
    Location:
    Deep in the Jungle
    I have not been able to get CAII to work with windows 7 since March. I have given this a try but dread the micro-management problems without CAII. I&#8217;m not sure if I will finish it, but here&#8217;s the start at least.
    Open class. Victory condition undecided, but definitely not cultural.

    Beginning
    I moved the settler NE, NE and settled Sogut in 3900bc. Build order was warrior, worker, granary, settler, settler, and nothing but settlers for the duration of this period, except for a library when literature was completed. Occasionally I needed to defend against barbs but they never really caused much of a problem. Research path was Pots, then straight to Maps. I had a RCP of 3.

    First Encounter
    An Aztec Jag Warrior was spotted in 3650BC and I trade BW and Mas for CB, WC and 10g. The Aztecs do a good job in the early game chasing down barbs and encampments which probably kept the barbs out of my hair. In 1450 BC I establish an embassy with the Aztecs.
    Growth
    The first town was placed in 2190BC at RCP 3 and the ring was complete in 1150BC with my 8th town. A second ring started at RCP6. Wines were hooked up in 1910BC.

    QSC Stats
    9 cities, population: 23, 6 workers, 8 warriors, 2 spears , 2 galley. Income -4gpt, treasury 79gp. Contacts: Only Aztecs. Embassy: Aztecs. 1 Granary, 2 barrack, 1 library
    I researched Pots, Alpha, Writing, MM, Phil, Lit, and received CB, WC, Myst and IW from trades with Aztecs. I got the Wheel from a GH. COL due in 2 turns.

    After 1000 BC
    My first exploring galley spies a Spanish border but is sunk by barbs before contact is made. A second galley finally makes contact with France in 975BC. The Vikings are contacted in 925BC by my third galley while my second galley bravely sinks but gains contacts with Zulu & Russia in 825BC before she went down. The third galley switches back and finds the Arabs in 430BC. This only leaves the Spanish and a further two galleys are needed before contact is finally made in 70BC.
    I trade maps and techs for money to fund my own research for the rest of the AA. In 670BC I complete Republic and immediately revolt, getting a 3turn period of Anarchy.
    The Aztecs have settled along the west coast of our island and I DOW on Aztecs in 370BC to push them back into the north and cripple them for the rest of the game. Details of this war will have to wait as I enter the Middle Ages a few turns later in 330BC.

    Scratcher
     
  6. Nata

    Nata Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    173
    Location:
    Boston, USA
    Wanted to play 20K, and like PaperBeetle, decided to put 20K city on the coast/river.
    I had a bit more luck though.

    The idea was to build 2 settlers and 1-2 workers from Sogut, settle 20K Istanbul and a settler/worker city Iskudar up the river, then disband Sogut and jump the palace to Istambul, then build in RCP 4/7 around it.

    Sogut built 2 warriors, than started a settler but after my warrior popped 2 huts with Barbs who started swarming around, I switched to a spear in a panic attack.
    Spear then went to guard Istanbul.

    I haven't met Aztecs for a long time as was busy building and rearranging cities and killing Barbs, my first tech was CB for a temple, then the usual Alpha/Writing/Lit etc.

    Spend AA working on Istanbul, which slowed down the expansion and delayed the first galley launch, so discoveries and MA were delayed until about 100BC.
    Monty hasn't bothered me at all but the Barbs were brutal.

    But it all came to an end stupidly - French beat me to GL by 2 turns, I switched to GW and after that Barbs started attacking my empty border towns and the game started crashing with GW bug to the point where I couldn't recover the sequence of steps.
    So I won't be submitting the game...

    But here's QSC which was submitted:

    1000BC: 3 towns, 13 people, 1 worker (Barbs killed some), 1spear, 2 warriors, Colossus, Temple, Library, Granary.
    Contact with Aztecs.
    All 1st techs except Wheel. Also Writing, Lit, Mysticism, 3 turns till MM.
     
  7. Garvarg

    Garvarg Playing with fire

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2002
    Messages:
    322
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario,Canada
    Why start you 20K south of your Capitol city?
    I get it that if none of the AI are near the coast, you can take your time with water based wonders, and of course inland means you cant build them at all, but with only one wheat, I just don't like it. Corruption ( if more than ring 4 can also kill any bonus lands).

    I would normally build a settler once the temple is built, build the second city close, and use it to build workers to feed to the Capitol city to bring it up to size 12 ASAP, and produce warriors or spears to defend the Capitol. With all the hills around the starting position, plant one spear on a hill and the barbs are drawn to it. With the defense bonus, and the way the barbs usually only send warriors and horses one at a time, they become vets and often elites and survive most battles.

    In the ancient age, There are so many wonders, you don't need to pre-build anyway.
    Tech can be slower, put production is what counts. (GL is a must, so I can save cash to build an army later)

    In the middle ages, I would have enough towns to use the FP as a prebuild if my 20K was not in the Capitol, but I hope to have a few barracks built and with some luck I can get a leader or two to build a wonder or two.

    Sometimes that plan actually works!
     
  8. PaperBeetle

    PaperBeetle Emperor

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2004
    Messages:
    1,660
    Location:
    London
    Valid question, and one I only really thought about after this game. But the theory is certainly open for discussion in this thread: short answer is there's a big difference between PtW and C3C.
    In C3C, an inland 20k spot is fine because (a) there are more wonders, and they are pretty good in a 20k game for various reasons, and (b) Shakepseare will get you up to pop 20 before (hopefully) 500ad, and hence substantially boosted production from eight extra on-shore tiles. In PtW, however, with neither of those things true, a coastal spot is much more advantageous relative to an inland one.

    The choice between using your first or second city for 20k is mainly influenced by difficulty level. At levels where you expect to be far enough ahead in tech that no one will challenge you for the important wonders (i.e. let the AI stress over Sun Tzu and Leonardo and you take the rest from the medieval onwards) lower corruption and immediate culture production usually suggest a 20k=capital game. When the palace prebuild gets more use, in higher level games, a second city 20k makes more sense.
    At only 200 shields, I don't think FP is really useful as a prebuild for the 600 shield wonders of the medieval era. Plus, at 1cpt per 100 shields and an spt-increasing effect (by reducing corruption), it should be pretty high on your list of things to build to completion anyway.
     

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