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GOTM183 Spoiler

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Game of the Month' started by Jokemaster, Nov 7, 2016.

  1. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    Super surprised that no one has posted such a thread yet.


    GOTM183. Small landmass, unknown amount of civs. French are in the game. Deity level. Landmass 1! Conquest seems likely, moreso if no purple.



    4000 BC: Pop hut: CHARIOT. Nice! Thebes built.

    3900 BC: Memphis built.

    3850 BC: Hut: Warrior Code. Bummer.

    3700 BC: Alphabet > BW. Neither techs were available. Hut: Barb horseman. I do kill it, but chariot in yellow HP.

    3600 BC: Hut: Pottery. This is actually going very poorly hut-wise, outside of the first pop.

    3400 BC: BARBS AGAIN. Don’t remember what was my action.

    3300 BC: Hut: Settlers. That’s better… (42, 44) might serve as a potential SSC. 3 trade specials.

    3200 BC: Kill marauding Barb horseman with Chariot. BW > CoL.

    3100 BC: Heliopolis built as SSC. Hut: Archers. Supported. Seems like I started in a rough, but wide (relatively speaking) and isolated peninsula. Ideal for landing. But I only see 3 civs on F9…

    2800 BC: CoL > CB.

    2700 BC: Huts: Archers, and 25g.

    2600 BC: Civil disorder in Memphis. 5 cities.

    Interturn: Meet Persians. Peace. No tribute.

    2550 BC: Persépolis spotted.

    2400 BC: Pi-Ramesses built. ¸

    2350 BC: CB > Monarchy. Techrate 10 turns. Swap Heliopolis worker to gold: techrate 7 turns.

    2200 BC: Giza built.

    Interturn: Find Persian city of Pasargades. Undefended. I could, but I won’t. Seems like the French are offshore… maybe?

    2100 BC: Persians force me to move Archer unit. Damnit. Thebes starts HG.

    2050 BC: Hut: Settlers. That’s great! Faraway and I get to pick where.

    2000 BC: Monarchy > Currency. Will swap in 1850 BC. Byblos built with faraway settler.



    STATUS AT 2000 BC: (Beginning of 41st turn)
    Population: 60.000 Cities: 8 Government: Despotism Total advances: 7 (researching Currency)
    Gold: 20 T4L0S6 Income/Cost per turn: 6 income, 0 cost. Production: 20MT 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: None built. Currently working on HG.
    Foreign relations: Peace with Persians.

    NOTES: So it seems like a 3-civ game. Persians found, French missing. Need to expand (of course) locate the French, and build a road network alongside key wonders. Road network will be super important because of the rough terrain between my mainland and the Byblos region/further north. But that might take a while.

    1900 BC: REVOLUTION.

    1850 BC: Monarchy. T3L0S7.

    1750 BC: El-Armana built. Hut: Currency!

    1700 BC: Trade unavailable, choose > Map Making instead.

    1550 BC: Map Making > Trade. Things have slowed down a bit.

    1450 BC: Hut: NONE Archers. Dangit. Close to the French, and they aren’t offshore. Persians have neither BW or Warrior Code.

    1350 BC: Hut: NONE Chariot near what I assume France. Hieraconpolis built.

    1150 BC: Barb archer attacks my archer on a mountain. Survives and is vet. Asyut built. Hut: Barbs. Hut: Barbs.

    Interturn: One barb disappears, the other loses to an archer on mountains. Nice.

    1050 BC: Barb archer loses to settler on mountains. Excellent. Avaris built. Oops, went past the black hat threshold… HG still a few turns away.

    1000 BC: Second van is en route to Thebes. Memphis settler builds the first route of many for the kingdom. Hut: NONE Archers. The game is really telling me to go for EC… but what’s the point at this stage?



    STATUS AT 1000 BC: (Beginning of 61st turn)
    Population: 320.000 Cities: 13 Government: Monarchy Total advances: 10 (researching Writing)
    Gold: 14 T3L0S7 Income/Cost per turn: 6 income, 0 cost. Production: 36MT 0 polluted tiles

    Units: 2 Settlers, 19 Warriors, 4 Archers, 2 Chariots, 2 Caravans. All but one of the offensive units are NONES.
    Wonders: None built. Currently working on HG.
    Foreign relations: Peace with Persians.

    NOTES: So it seems like a 3-civ game. Persians found, French missing. Need to expand (of course) locate the French, and build a road network alongside key wonders. Road network will be super important because of the rough terrain between my mainland and the Byblos region/further north. But that might take a while.



    I literally did not need to change any of my notes at all whatsoever… says something about this game. French still missing. Did make some good on shield output, but still subpar. Will send El-Armana settler to work on the road.
     
  2. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    I started playing last night. I tipped the hut, got an archer (thankfully), and started exploring with all units for a good OCC spot. Within a few turns I realized that the map is horrible for OCC: way too many mountains. I am now leaning towards conquest as the map is not suitable for large productive cities needed for a landing game either.
     
  3. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    -4000 to -1000

    Strategy is OCC?

    Starting site and NE hilltop are both horrible for OCC. They have a minimum of 6 hills and 3 mountains. The NE hilltop does not have ocean access either. Being on continent 1 it is not possible to use black clicking. OCC is a risky strategy as no good spot with ocean access may be found. Given that the initial spot is not good regardless I am going to go on the river and see what happens.


    Date Notes

    -4000 Archer form hut; this is great
    -3850 Terrian is horrible
    -3800 Another none archer from hut. Only French and Persians are in so far.
    Should I go for OCC at western 4 special site with whale and gold and ocean access despite at least 3 hills, 2 tundra, and a mountain? Or should I opt for early conquest?
    The OCC site will require way too much Engineer work. Chances are the settler will become idle before it is even possible to produce an engineer and then one engineer will probably not be sufficient. Conquest it is. Thebes founded at 3 special site 56, 40.

    -3750 -> Alphabet. Archer from hut.
    -3700 Memphis founded at the 4-special site 42,44.
    -3600 Nomad from hut. This is great.
    -3500 Alphabet -> Code of Laws. Nomad founds Heliopolis. 50g from hut.
    -3200 Code of Laws -> Writing. T0L4S6
    -3050 Nomad from hut. T4L0S6

    Status at -2950
    Population: 0.07M; Cities: 3; Techs: 2; Government: Despotism
    Gold: 63; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
    Wonders:
    Units: 2 Settlers (1 None), 3 archers (2 None)
    Goals: Monarchy, expansion, trade, Marco
    White?: no contact
    Green?: no contact
    French: no contact
    Persian: no contact
    Orange?: no contact
    purple?: no contact

    -2850 Writing -> Ceremonial Burial. Single barbarian horseman from hut; archer kills it and turns vet. Elephantine founded on river bed north of Thebes.
    -2650 Nomad founds Alexandria. First red head appears.
    -2550 Pi-Ramesses founded on the southern coast.
    -2500 Ceremonial Burial -> Monarchy.
    -2400 Giza founded.
    -2250 Monarchy -> Bronze Working. Monarchy established. T3L0S7
    -2050 French start Colossus. Byblos founded.
    -2000 Bronze Working -> Currency. El-Amarna founded.

    Status at -2000
    Population: 0.17M; Cities: 9; Techs: 6; Government: Monarchy
    Gold: 2; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
    Wonders:
    Units: 4 warriors, 3 archers (2 None), 1 diplomat
    Goals: trade, Marco, expansion
    White?: no contact
    Green?: no contact
    French: no contact
    Persian: no contact
    Orange?: no contact
    purple?: no contact

    -1750 Currency -> Trade.
    -1650 2 Archers land near Giza; the only city protected by two defenders, one of them a Phalanx.
    -1600 Barbarians raze Giza.
    -1500 Trade -> Mapmaking.
    -1450 Settler, deliberately placed on mountain, survives barbarian archer and turns vet.
    -1350 The remaining barbarian
    -1200 Mapmaking -> Pottery
    -1150 Wandering diplomat discovers Persians. Peace -> Persian -> 100g tribute. My power is expectedly supreme.
    -1050 Marco built. Expectedly Persians and French are the only ones in the game.
    Mapmaking -> Persian (4) -> cutoff. Peace -> French (5) -> maps, 150g.
    -1000 Got Persian map. None archer from hut.

    Status at -1000
    Population: 0.21M; Cities: 8; Techs: 9; Government: Monarchy
    Gold: 125; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
    Wonders: Marco
    Units: 5 settlers, 9 warriors, 4 archers (3 None), 2 triremes, 2 diplomats, 1 van
    Goals: rebuilding Giza, building a French beachhead, Pottery, Hanging Gardens, trade routes, Polytheism, Seafaring, wheel?
    French: 5 cities, 7 techs
    Persian: 3 cities, 2 techs
     
  4. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    I finished last night. This awful terrain was only good for conquest. I bribed the 2 western French cities which were both strategic canals. Sent a force of 5 elephants to conquer Paris and then bribed the remaining 2 cities. Persian cities were harder to reach but they were super easy to take because they never researched Bronze Working or Warrior code and only had warriors as defenders. Vikings appeared after the fall of French in a yet unexplored part of the map. Persian fall did not bring any respawns. I had to build Lighthouse to get to Vikings quickly and once I conquered them there were no more respawns. The scarcity of respawns was partly due to rough terrain and partly to an abundance of cities in remote areas founded by nomads. I got an amazing number of nomads in this game. Of course I made it a priority to find huts and had several units dedicated to it.

    I finished past +1 and before +500. I am sure better conquest players could have finished before +1. Will post log soon.
     
  5. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    I'm a pretty weird child... I went landing despite harsh terrain. Also messed up a little bit in late BC/early AD's (and lack of key civ). so end date is meh. SUPER LUCKY that I had some great wildcard spots, as SSC was supplying hides and nearby offshore island was demanding. Wasn't planning for that when I built those cities. Otherwise, you can add about 20ish more turns to my game at the very least.

    Side note: The politically correct way to refer to dates is now "BCE/CE" Before Current Era/Current Era. I'm not a hardcore reactionarian to this idea, but when the game is coded as BC/AD it gets cumbersome to remember.


    950 BC: 2nd van in Thebes, HG done next turn.

    925 BC: Writing > Mysticism. THEBES HG. Hut: Barbs. Back to the bad luck spree… Lisht built.

    900 BC: FRENCH WARRIOR NEAR EL-ARMANA. Peace, maps. They are right on the north shores of my empire. If only it was a true offshore… I am in no position to invade.

    825 BC; Find Persian city of Suse. I really should have invaded Pasargades when I had the chance, but hindsight 20/20.

    775 BC: French start Sun Tzu. Interesting! Mysticism > Masonry. Hut: BARBS AGAIN. Jesus.

    725 BC: Random Barb spawn near Hieraconpolis. I’ll pay tribute.

    Interturn: Pay 50g to avoid capture of Hieraconpolis.

    700 BC: Edfu built.

    675 BC: Hut: AT of Pithom. Better late than never.

    625 BC: French brag about Literacy. Trade for Trade.

    600 BC: Masonry > HBR. Swap to Pyramids in Thebes.

    550 BC: THEBES PYRAMIDS. Now, stockpile for Mikes OR Lighthouse. Leaning towards the former. SSC development has lagged, built one settler too many. Getting some irrigation work done, however.

    525 BC: Van in Heliopolis: 138s left. City is still size1. Big mistakes.

    450 BC: HBR > Philosophy. Busiris built.

    400 BC: Athribis built.


    STATUS AT 400 BC: (Beginning of 85th turn)
    Population: 600.000 Cities: 20 Government: Monarchy Total advances: 15 (researching Philo)
    Gold: 34 T3L0S7 Income/Cost per turn: 12 income, 0 cost. Production: 67MT 0 polluted tiles
    Units: 9 Settlers, 23 Warriors, 3 Archers, 2 Chariots, 1 Caravan, 1 Trireme.

    Wonders: HG, Pyramids. Currently working on Colossus.
    Foreign relations: Peace with Persians and French.

    NOTES: Found the French. Confirms a landing game. Good progress on the road network westwards, eastwards is going to be fully built soonish. Trying to build a semi-road to Byblos province, will stop and settle when I get to the fish/whale specials north of El-Armana. (Only suitable sites for cities)



    350 BC: Mendes built as first offshore city. Will drop a few settlers on landmass 6, west of the Persians.

    300 BC: Hut: Archers.

    275 BC: Philo > Poly > Mono. El-Ashunmein built.

    250 BC: Tanis built.

    225 BC: HELIOPOLIS COLOSSUS. Maybe should have done it on an offshore city, but I think SSC arrows > trade revenue in this game. Buhen built.

    200 BC: Hut on Continent 6: BARBS. Seriously… this sucks! Will delay development there by at least 8 turns. And I was hoping for nomads…

    Initerturn: Lose my settler to Barbs, and an exploring archer as well.

    175 BC: Revenge kill Barb Archer. Bubastis built.

    125 BC: Hut: 50g. Western road to proposed city sites are almost done, but road to Byblos province still far away.

    100 BC: Monotheism > Seafaring. Need that first before Republic, for obvious reasons (read: all plains+no grasslands). Not a fan of Repu before celebrations, because it needs bigger cities when you don’t have a big amount of them. 7 vans in Thebes for Mikes.

    75 BC: THEBES MICHELANGELO’S CHAPEL.

    1 AD: French almost done with Sun Tzu.


    STATUS AT 1 AD: (Beginning of 101st turn)
    Population: 1,010.000 Cities: 25 Government: Monarchy Total advances: 18 (researching Seafaring)
    Gold: 137 T3L0S7 Income/Cost per turn: 24 income, 1 cost. Production: 100MT 0 polluted tiles
    Units: 18 Settlers, 21 Warriors, 3 Archers, 2 Chariots, 3 Caravan, 1 Trireme.


    Wonders: HG, Pyramids, Colossus, Mikes.
    Foreign relations: Peace with Persians and French.


    NOTES: Route westwards almost has its first section complete, but a long time before the entire road is done. Priorities for next period is expansion west/island population, and celebrating the metropolis after I eventually get Republic. No plans for large-scale trade yet. SSC should have priority.
     
  6. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Interesting that you are going for space, Jokemaster.
    You expanded quite fast. While at -2000 I have one more city and nearly 3 times the population, by -1000 you are quite a bit ahead with 13 cities vs my 8 and 50% more population. I not only stopped expanding in the era between -2000 and -1000 but also lost a city to barbarians. From that point on my emphasis was on wonders and exploration. By +1 despite having conquered the French I have only 20 cities vs your 25. I wonder whether you hit any snags late in the game due to smaller city sizes brought about by rough terrain and very little land off of the main continent.

    Anyone else playing?
     
  7. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    My own feeling is that bce/ce, am/pm instead of 24 hour time, () used by accountants for negative numbers, ... are for the mathematically challenged. That is what the +/- are for.
     
  8. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    -1000 to +1

    -0925 Pottery -> Seafaring. Persian -> 0g. Giza refounded.
    -0900 French, Persian -> 0g
    -0875 T7L3S0
    -0825 Beads to Orleans for 48 establishes the first trade route. T3L3S4
    -0800 Abydos and Asyut founded.
    -0775 Hanging Gardens built in Thebes which just became size 3 and celebrates! T3L0S7
    -0750 Seafaring -> Horseback riding. Trade -> French -> Horseback riding, 50g. Persian -> 50g. Nomad from hut!
    -0725 -> Wheel (Polytheism not a choice). Domestic Beads for 20 establishes the first domestic route. Barbarian horseman from hut bribed for 41g and turned none.
    -0675 French -> 25g, Persian -> 50g
    -0650 First structure, Harbor in Thebes, built. Hides to Rheims for 24.
    -0625 Wheel -> Polytheism. Copper to Paris for 52.
    -0575 Deliveries to French for 24, 68. 25g from hut. French, Persian -> 0g
    -0550 Polytheism -> Mysticism.
    -0500 7 barbarians from hut will surely kill my archer the next turn. Persian -> 0g. French declare war rather than pay tribute.

    Status at -0500
    Population: 0.4M; Cities: 11; Techs: 14; Government: Monarchy
    Gold: 112; Cost: 5; Trade routes: 2D5F;
    Wonders: Marco, Hanging Gardens
    Units: 6 settlers (1 None), 13 warriors, 4 archers (3 None), 1 None horseman, 3 triremes, 2 diplomats, 3 vans, 1 explorer
    Goals: Philosophy, Monotheism, Colossus?, Michelangelo?, Conquest of rivals
    French: 5 cities, 11 techs; war with me
    Persian: 4 cities, 4 techs

    -0475 French lose 2 units attacking me. French warrior killed. Wool to French for 40g.
    -0450 Paris builds Colossus.
    -0425 French lose another warrior attacking me. Mysticism -> Literacy. Avaris founded. 50g from polar hut.
    -0400 Hides to Rheims for 40. Rheims bribed for 116g. Got 13g, Literacy, barracks, settler, and 2 soldiers! What a deal. Accepted French offer of 50g for cease fire. Persian -> 25g.
    -0375 -> Philosophy.
    -0350 Barbarian leader for 150g.
    -0325 Barbarian archer lands on mountain next to Alexandria. Elephant in Alexandria manages to kill it! Accepted French offer of 50g for peace. Tours subverted for 2x159g for its strategic location as a canal (51,23). Got 2g, barracks, and 2 Phalanx.
    -0300 Nomad from hut.
    -0275 Warrior placed on mountain next to Alexandria survives barbarian archer. Philosophy -> Monotheism -> Masonry. T7L0S3. Nomad founds Lisht. Persian -> 100g.
    -0250 Elephant kills approaching barbarian legion. 7 barbarian horsemen from hut surround my diplomat and will kill it the next turn. Black heads appear.
    -0225 Nomad from mountaintop hut.
    -0150 The wilderness is full of barbarians. Barbarian archer gets to hut before my horseman can. Nomad founds Buto on island 6.
    -0125 Wine to Paris for 110. Horseman kills barbarian archer and leader.
    -0100 French -> 25g. Persian -> 50g. Last remaining nomad founds Edfu.
    -0075 Michelangelo built in Thebes. French -> Republic. Paris attacked by 3 elephants. One dies, the other 2 kill 2 Phalanx defenders. Have 2 more elephants nearby.
    -0050 French choose to leave Paris undefended despite having a diplomat and a settler just outside. This is deity? Paris captured for 16g and Colossus.
    -0025 Orleans bribed for 108g. Got 8g, barracks, phalanx, and 2 settlers.
    +0001 Phalanx survives barbarian archer. Lyons bribed for 159g. Got 14g, barracks, and 2 soldiers. French civilization destroyed. Vikings appear; gave them 2 techs and got their maps. They are in a remote location north of Persians; an area I have not even explored yet. None horseman killed in attack on barbarian archer in the wild.

    Status at +0001
    Population: 0.93M; Cities: 20; Techs: 19; Government: Monarchy
    Gold: 117; Cost: 7; Trade routes: 18D0F;
    Wonders: Marco, Hanging Gardens, Colossus, Michelangelo
    Units: 8 settlers, 21 warriors, 6 Phalanx, 3 archers (3 None), 1 horseman, 1 chariot, 7 elephants, 2 crusaders, 6 triremes, 3 diplomats, 4 vans, 1 explorer
    Goals: Philosophy, Monotheism, Colossus?, Michelangelo?, Conquest of rivals
    French: Destroyed by me
    Viking: 0 cities, 10 techs;
    Persian: 5 cities, 6 techs
     
  9. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    "French civilization destroyed. Vikings appear; gave them 2 techs and got their maps. They are in a remote location north of Persians; an area I have not even explored yet."

    You hadn't had the map uncovered since then? Must have had some kind of bad luck with military units from huts.

    My own game had troubles with population, but nothing a strong SSC couldn't fix. Irrigation came through, but I reckon it was mostly because the entire game was slow. Fortunately, I also had a repeater demand/supply wildcards in the SSC Heliopolis for oil, alongside some profitable trades with the NW Islands. Also excellent mfg output, but again: no key civ.
     
  10. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    I tend to not get many units out of huts; not sure why. In this case, one mistake I made was not making Lighthouse in mid game (say instead of Colossus). I had more boats and units on the eastern end of the main continent (to go after French) than on the western edge and they could not jump to the other edge because of distance. Eventually I did make Lighthouse to speed up conquest of Vikings but an earlier Lighthouse would have sped up exploration.
     
  11. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    "French choose to leave Paris undefended despite having a diplomat and a settler just outside. This is deity? Paris captured for 16g and Colossus."

    You already had Colossus Ali! Did you mean Pyramids?
    Also could have hugged the south pole to make the jump, although LH would have undoubtedly saved much time.
    Given the choice between Mikes and LH, I also went for earlier Mikes. Wasn't as big of a deal, since I was going for EL and expansion. But 560AD LH is bad for shipchains.

    Looking at your log, it doesn't appear that there is any kind of fat that could have been trimmed somewhere. Marco's was unusual in 3p game, but it turned out to be very important for the usual reasons.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2016
  12. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    French built Colossus in Paris in -450; I got it when I took Paris. I did send a unit on the south pole but it found nothing: no openings and no huts. Marco was definitely a needed wonder in this game as it is in all conquest games with restart on. The moment I took Paris in -0050 I should have realized that I need Lighthouse more than anything else to get my boats to go to the other side of the continent quickly. It took me quite a few turns to reach that realization.
     

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