GOTM63 - Spoiler #2

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Game of the Month' started by civ_steve, Jan 27, 2007.

  1. civ_steve

    civ_steve Deity Retired Moderator GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2002
    Messages:
    3,866
    Location:
    formerly Santa Clarita, California

    GOTM 63 - second spoiler



    How did your Middle Ages Zulu do? There are several Scientific civs located at the far end of the continent - did that pose any sort of problem?


    Reading Requirements:

    1. Must have contact with All remaining Civs.
    2. Must be able to research an Industrial Age Technology.

    Posting restrictions

    1. No maps showing Industrial or Modern resources.
    2. No discussion of Industrial Age (or later).
     
  2. ionimplant

    ionimplant Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    358
    Location:
    Ann Arbor, MI
    Game status: Domination Victory for Zululand
    Game date: 990 AD
    Firaxis score: 5979
    Jason score: 9087

    the first war against Iroquois did not start until I was about 4 turns away from getting Knights. I had about 8 medieval infantries as the attacking force. It turned out they were just about enough to start with. Celts was allied against them also. Together with the newly produced units and later knights, Iroquois fell quite easily. After that I started on Celts with Knights and then India. Meanwhile, I was researching most of the time towards military tradition.
    Greece was another major power and I tried to have Korea, Roman, and Germany (and later Arabs) engaged against them all the time but it seems their war was in a stalemate as the borderline between them never really changed much.
    And finally after a long march, I took the pyramid from Ottomas. My cavalry army also came to play about that time. After this, it’s just getting units to the frontiers and get settlers to build cities. Finally the domination limit was reached 10 years before the millennium. Greece, Korea, Roman and Germany all survived to see Zulu’s domination.
    I only wish that Iroquois built the Pyramid instead of the Ottomas.
     
  3. Chamnix

    Chamnix Chasing Time

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2004
    Messages:
    8,941
    Location:
    NJ, USA
    After entering the Middle Ages late thanks to almost no Ancient Age self-research, I cranked up the slider to get Engineering quickly during my Golden Age as rivers were slowing me down too much. I traded Engineering for both Monotheism and Feudalism, then researched Chivalry. That was all for research as all money from then on went to upgrading horses to knights.

    I never did get out of despotism, but I didn’t pop rush much either :wallbash:. I always had more than enough units – they always just got bogged down approaching the AI thanks to their non-existent roads. I had road crews working in several directions at once, but it was fairly slow going. I decided not to bother trying to rush more units and kept my pop (and happiness) for score purposes.

    The scientist civs at the far end were not much more than an inconvenience. Greece was annoying, but that was just because of hoplites. The Ottomans made it the Feudalism but lacked iron. Korea was eliminated early by Germany – I never even met them. Germany got Feudalism 1 turn before I ROP-abused them – I think I faced 1 pikeman.

    The Middle Ages timeline:

    70 Got a second Great Leader while finishing the Celts – he moves my palace to Salamanca.

    170 Complete Engineering. Trade it for Feudalism and Monotheism and (finally) contact with the Germans.

    190 Arabs done.

    210 India done.

    260 Rome obliterated.

    400 Greece gone.

    410 Ottomans finished.

    490 Germany wiped out.

    500 Conquest victory.

     
  4. klarius

    klarius ... !

    Joined:
    May 30, 2004
    Messages:
    4,200
    Location:
    Germany
    Entering MA in 590BC I got all three starting techs with the help of republic and started research on chivalry.
    550BC one of our Impi starts the golden age.
    By 470BC chivalry is complete and that was it for research in this game.
    I was to lazy to disconnect iron, so just rushed stuff.
    Iroqouis are destroyed in 110BC.
    We get a leader and rush palace in Salamanca, though the region never got developed enough to contribute much.
    Celts are also out by 110BC. Another leader rushes Sun Tzu's.

    The last Indian city is taken in 110AD.

    Arabia follows in 150AD. We get the Pyramids in Mecca - too late to really make a big difference.

    Next is Korea. They had given me already all their cities except their capital in a peace treaty in 470BC. I then gifted them a city endangered by Rome. In 230AD I took Seoul by rushed knights (had to rush harbors first to get the resources).
    In 250AD I took back the gifted city and Korea is gone.

    Rome 370AD, Ottomans 380AD, Germany 400AD and finally Greece in 420AD are the other acquisitions.
    The only noticeable resistance was from Germany with a few pikes and even 4 knights, which temporarily could take a city from me. The problem was really just to get the troops to where they were needed. I leader rushed the Lighthouse and rushed quite a few galleys to get troops the other way, but Germany and Greece folded to quickly to make a difference.


    Conquest victory in 430AD.
     
  5. denyd

    denyd Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2001
    Messages:
    6,608
    Location:
    Chino Hills, CA
    Domination win in 930 AD - Should have been much, much better.

    Looking back I should have quit research after knights as I never faced a single musket. About 4-5 War Elephants was the toughest to kill. It turned out that most of the AI lacked SP and Iron, so it would have been Knights against spears in most cases. I actually waited about 4 turns just to upgrade 20+ knights to cavalry (plus the upgrade turn and positioning) to attack the Arabs only to find all he had was spears, archers and about 4 horsemen. I finally managed my 2nd MGL in this war and put my FP in Salamanca in 710 AD (way too late). This was also the year my Impi initiated Golden Age ended.

    After the Arabs fell, I moved on to Rome in 740 AD and again only Legions, archers and a couple of spears and they were gone by 790 AD. By now I was checking Map Stat and found that neither Germany or Korea had iron / SP (Korea didn't have invention yet). So they were next. Germany (810 AD - 870 AD) went easily though a big patch of jungle slowed down my advance until I took Nampo (now German) and had a road through the vines. Korea was even easier as only spears and a single horse were waiting for me. The fall of the final Korean core city would have put me over the limit had Cumae not flipped to Greece the prior turn (3 tiles short). A quick assault took 3 Ottoman cities and the final Korean continental city and domination was completed in 930 AD (Jason 9550). Of course the final couple of turns saw a flurry of MGL births as I finished the game getting six, three were born in the last 3 turns.
     
  6. Marcher Lord

    Marcher Lord Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2006
    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    Sunshine Coast, Australia.
    G'Day

    Time for me to hop off the lurkers shelf I guess. I played this game on predator level for the first time and managed a creditable 930AD Domination...well , for me at least! I didn't have any intention to submit it when I started but probably should have in retrospect.
    I'm the first to admit I still have a lot to learn though. Still making some horrid gaffs like using my first ML to build the FP in Salamanca only to have it flip a few turns later! :cry:
    Anyway, the main reason for this post. I was surprised at the seemingly low number of MLs generated. I had one against the Celts and one against the Indians and the gained two more in the last couple of turns (much the same as Denyd). Does the quality of opposition affect the chance of generating MLs? I had Knights and later Cavalry against Spears for the most part. Unit promotion to Elite seemed very good.
    Thanks for providing a very enjoyable game and also many thanks to those who post their game analysis each month. I thought I knew how to play Civ 'till I found this place! ;)
     
  7. civ_steve

    civ_steve Deity Retired Moderator GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2002
    Messages:
    3,866
    Location:
    formerly Santa Clarita, California
    Welcome to CFC and the GOTM, Marcher Lord! :) I'm glad you enjoyed the game and its always nice to see new 'faces' around here.

    ML generation has always seemed subjective to me. I'll want one forever and see Elite win, one after the other, turn up fruitless. Then all of a sudden the dam will burst and a group of ML's will show up. I don't think it's tied to anything but the vagaries of the RNG.
     
  8. PaperBeetle

    PaperBeetle Emperor

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2004
    Messages:
    1,660
    Location:
    London
    The Ancient Age
    I used a six-turn combo factory, starting with an impi and an axe per cycle, and moving to a sword per cycle when the iron got hooked. The impi went to patrol the southern part of the peninsula, while the axes were destined for my Iroquois campaign. The Quois, Arabs and Celts were met early on, Alex bought my contact, and I traded contacts to meet the Indians, Romans and Ottomans. Abu dowed early on, which netteed me two towns for no effort, and in 775bc I began my own war against the Quois. Researching Republic allowed me to trade my way into the medieval in 470bc, and I also revolted, drawing 7 turns of anarchy. Both Alex and Osman got Feudalism as their free tech, and I traded it for Republic.

    The First Quois Campaign
    My swords advance into Niagara, just beyond the choke, and then attempt to move east into Salamanca itself. The rivers in this region hinder movement such that the journey takes several turns, and my units are always distracted by Quois archers heading in the opposite direction. I eventually take the town, it flips a couple of turns later, and I retake it for good in 430bc. I turn my swords south to take the Quois horse towns, and autoraze the town to Salamanca's east; Watha is despotic, and is whipping these towns down to size 1.

    End of Anarchy
    My gruelling 7 turn anarchy ends in 330bc, and the Republic is inaugurated. I have large unit support costs, and have to start off with a commerce rate of 5.4.1, but this is alleviated when the last two civs are met. They were missing so long I had assumed they were overseas. I had a galley heading that way, and it bumped into a Korean a couple of turns after the Ottomans first met them. They were behind in tech of course, but had a little cash to give me for bringing them into the medieval. Happily, they both got Engineering, and again Republic was sufficient to buy it.

    Early Golden Age
    I have settled the horses, furs and silks in the grasslands on the other side of the Zulu Gulf, but don't have much military in the area. These towns come under increasing pressure from the Quois as I squeeze them northwards. While using an impi to confuse a Quois archer heading for my horses, I mistakenly kill the enemy unit, and the golden age begins in 270bc. This is rather earlier than I would have liked in a science game. I normally prefer to use it at the start of the industrial, when 4-turn research is often suddenly hard to acheive.

    Getting Science Into Gear
    With hindsight though, this was probably a good time to get the GA. I got Monotheism in 7 turns plus my anarchy beakers, but I am now comfortably in the 4-turn research zone. I give Watha peace when he is down to two towns between his original core and the Celts, and settle down to get some decent wonders built. Zimbabwe goes for Copernicus - the site is one of the most perfect 20k locations I ever saw, with all that gold and river, and enough shields to hit some important production thresholds. Further upriver, Hlobane starts prebuilding Leonardo.

    A Wonderful World
    The golden age is spent uneventfully, ending with the completion of Copernicus in 150ad. The next turn, Brennus comes up with Invention. In 190ad I reach Banking though, and have exhausted the potential of the top branch of the tree. There's no point waiting for the AI to get Guns, so I start researching it myself. The Pyramids are finally completed in 250ad, and it is Gandhi who did the deed, which is nice as he is a sensible choice to attack next anyway. The next turn, Greece finally finishes Colossus! Crazy. I could have built that easily by now, I just didn't think of it becasue it is normally gone so early. :shake:

    Watha Way To Go
    Before I start on the Indians, I want to clean up the Quois situation. Watha has switched to Republic, so his towns should get less units and whip weariness now. By 310ad, I have taken the two towns I left him with, but I belatedly notice that he has built another on the bay south of Entremont. It takes a while to trek across the mountains to get there, but it is worth the wait. Taking this town in 360ad gets me a leader who goes back to put the FP in Salamanca. I also use a bit of tech tricking to get the gpt coming in, and leave the AI parked at Chemistry in case someone manages Metallurgy while I do the Physics techs.

    Ending the Age
    I start my Newton prebuild rather too late - only 2 turns before getting Physics. It shouldn't slow my acquisition of the last medieval techs, but my real worry is that the AI has plenty of prebuilds on the go. Pretty much everyone is doing several wonders, and these builds have been cascading along for hundreds or thousands of years. When I hit the industrial, I will want to bring the scientific guys up with me, but that will mean giving them Gravity, and a cascade could quickly rob me of a key part of my strategy.
    Sun Tzu drops to the Arabs in 480ad, but the best builds continue in the form of Michaelangelo and Leonardo. So when in 490ad I learn Metallurgy and enter the industrial, I decide that I can't afford to risk gifting anyone up until Newton is done in 3 turns time. That makes my research choice a bit of a blind one. So I just go for the best tech available - Steam at max.
     
  9. Più Freddo

    Più Freddo From space, earth is blue

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    1,996
    Location:
    Vienna, Austria
    Well, Steve, it has to be like that or it isn't random. If they all came fairly regularly we wouldn't be talking about randomness anymore.
     
  10. Più Freddo

    Più Freddo From space, earth is blue

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    1,996
    Location:
    Vienna, Austria
    Predator, Conquest

    I entered the Middle Ages in 510 BC, firmly under Republic since a few
    hundred years, and soon started a new attack on the remains of
    India. India was fairly thin, so after a few turns I had to attack
    Arabia, too, since my troops had orders to move to the east and never
    return.

    At this time I founded cities close to the colonies in the southern
    part of our peninsula, but the Jungle was to stay Barbarian land until
    the end of the game.

    India was destroyed in 370 BC

    In a peace deal with Arabia in 350 BC, I learned Feudalism. My troops
    soon reached Roman lands and brought the war there, and of course
    renewedly to Arabia. In a second peace deal in 230 BC, I learned
    Engineering from the Arabs. At the same time I had finished a well
    planned road finding its way between and around the rivers of the mid
    continent... Soon afterwards followed a peace deal with Rome for
    cities and with it a little lull for moving in fresh troops.

    Arabia was destroyed in 130 BC after a two-turn war. War on the
    Ottomans was started in 110 BC.

    In 70 BC, Rome offered peace in the interturn and offered
    Monotheism. I accepted, and, by first clicking on the advisor head of
    the Diplomacy Display in order to reach the Board of Advisors, managed
    to switch to full research towards Chivalry in the same interturn. Of
    course, in the following turn, war on Rome was renewed. War on Korea
    was also started as they had made a few disturbing settlements on the
    main continent and on the peninsula to the north of Ottomania.

    Rome was destroyed in 10 BC.

    In 30 AD, I discover Chivalry and enter the Golden Age as an Impi
    kills a Korean Warrior. In retrospect, this was too late, as I could
    have needed the boost in troops an money earlier rather than
    later. With this timing, however, I could produce 20 Horsemen in the
    capital during the Golden Age. The last one of them never reached the
    front.

    In 50 AD, I captured Sogut with The Hanging Gardens.

    In 260 AD, I connected my last Luxury, Silks in a formerly German city
    on the Ottoman peninsula. I hadn't seen that there were some available
    close to the Celts also. I neglected the Celtic peninsula a little too
    long in general: I should have roaded it for the later campaign. I
    kept this campaign -- Celts and Iroquois -- for the last troops
    issuing forth from my Core too late to reach the eastern front.

    In 280 AD I suffered my only cultural flip, an unimportant and easy to
    reach Greek city.

    In 300 AD I started the war against the Iroquois and the Celts. A bit
    premature, but there you are. Better safe than sorry. Two turns later
    my second Military Great Leader finally emerged and I used him to rush
    a Forbidden Palace in Salamanca in 360 AD. Salamanca was by then
    surrounded by a fully developed second core at RCP4, but the
    production never mattered this late in the game. Just having a
    Forbidden Palace was the important (well...) factor and my income was
    soon greater than during the Golden Age.

    330 AD saw the destruction of the Iroquois.

    In 360 AD I captured Entremont with The Great Library and soon learned
    a lot of useles technologies: Invention, Theology, Printing Press,
    Education and Gunpowder.

    As I was approaching the end of this conquest, in 370 AD, I
    established an embassy with Korea in order to be able to sign a Right
    of Passage Agreement. They even payed me 1 gpt for it! In the same
    year, approaching from the south, I captured Berlin with Sun Tzu's Art
    of War. I didn't bother to sell my own Barracks, as I was in no
    shortage of cash.

    I destroyed the Celts in 380 AD and in 400 AD Greece by capturing the
    far western city of Brempalonica with some late-coming Knights. When
    in the same year I captured the last German city, I was alarmed to see
    that the Germans were not destroyed! About ten tiles to the north I
    saw a German Galley still floating. So I rushed a Galley in Konigsberg
    for 160 gold by first rushing a Worker. On the next turn I rushed
    another one.

    Then, in 420 AD, all troops were in place in Korea and the fireworks
    started. They never knew what hit them. And, luckily, the first Galley
    caught up with and killed the German one for a final conquest. A
    Military Great Leader emerged at the siege of P'yongyang and he rushed
    the Sistine Chapel there for the love of mankind.

    Conquest victory in 430 AD. The same date as Klarius! Did he play
    below or I over our respective abilities?

    I used Galleys (two of them) only to reach the Celts. Lacking Leaders
    I could not rush the Great Lighthouse and had no thought of building
    it the hard way. So all my troops moved linearly from west to
    east. Lots of slaves built roads to speed things up. A couple of
    Barracks were rushed along the way for rushing and upgrading.
     
  11. socralynnek

    socralynnek Civ & Hattrick addict

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2003
    Messages:
    1,480
    Location:
    Northern Germany
    I guess I had the most stupid idea ever. Hopefully it tunrs out to be the wisest idea ever.

    Cruising to a 100K victory...maybe 1850 I will be done...

    I guess I shouldn't have focused on too many temples in the early stage of the game and I should have earlier declare on Iros for a Great Leader and FP. Did so shortly before entering the IA.
    Cultural buildings are so damn expensive for Zululand...
     
  12. PrinceMyshkin

    PrinceMyshkin King

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2007
    Messages:
    830
    Location:
    Asheville, NC
    After a fairly good start, entering MA in 390BC and revolting to monarchy in 270BC, I finally started the war w/ the Iroquois. I gifted Germany up to the MA and traded for feudalism, after gifting the other science civs up as well to lower the price. None got engineering so I set research to max. and built some libraries, marketplaces, and courthouses in my core. I still didn't haave horses and the war was going too slow w/ the Iro. I was allied with the Celts.
    My swordsmen and MI died frequently to Iro spears, and an Impi finally kicked off my GA in 50 AD.
    This is my first time in PTW and I've only just recently completed a couple of conquests, I'm usually a builder, so I made many mistakes. In the very beginning I paid no attention to RCP, I built the FP on the starting penisula without rushing and used my first leader to build an army and the Heroic Epic in Zimbabwe. By the time I settled the horses near the Iroquois, my infantry was nearly depleted, but I had captured the Pyramids. It was slow going building Knights and one city flippped w/six MI in the garrison, I finally destroyed the Iro. in 570AD. For some reason I had stopped making settlers, but I did have workers making roads to the Celts. After some flips and lack of leaders, I finally destroyed the Celts only in 850AD, right after completing research on MT, capturing Sun-Tzu's. The Indians were destroyed by the Romans during this time.
    With cavalry and a two-tech lead on the world, the pace picked up and I destroyed the Arabs in 960AD, capturing JS Bach's and the Great Library(no help), and had the Ottomans down to one city capturing Hanging Gardens and Adam Smith's in 1050AD as I entered the IA. Four more leaders appeared during this time and I built the Pentagon in Sogut.
    I've not set up any other victory, so I'll complete the domination or conquest victory and turn research off as soon as I get steam power, in about twenty turns. Conquest is certainly fun to attempt and I think I've learned a fair bit in the attempt.:)
     
  13. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2006
    Messages:
    7,540
    Location:
    Medford, MA
    I've entered the IA in 1000 AD - my 20K city is cruising along, though I missed Hanging Gardens to a cascade by 1 turn, which is irritating as hell.

    My wars have been iroquois twice (I got 1 leader only to have him wiped out immediately - others have been for wonders), and now with India - I keep bringing in lots of others, which is fun, but tends to leave me with not very many elite targets.

    I had something odd - a War elephant army nearly killed itself on an impi. Left it with 3 HP, so I wiped it out.

    I'm not really used to PTW - I still don't have a FP, so my research is slower than it should be, and I'm really not used to zulu in a research game, so I don't have that many libs/unis up ;)

    Projected win date is 1840 AD
     

Share This Page