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GOTM64 spoiler

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Game of the Month' started by TheViking, May 9, 2006.

  1. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

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    I don't know if what happened to me is some kind of a 'bug' or a feature of this succession game so I decided to start a spoiler thread instead of discussing it in the Gotm64 thread.

    I quickly realized that it would probably be impossible to capture Rome any time soon using horsemen without also razing it so I built a diplomat to buy the city. I then tried buying Rome and it simply wasn't possible :confused: :confused:. The diplomat couldn't do anything to Rome - it couldn't incite a revolt, couldn't investigate the city, couldn't do industrial sabotage etc. The usual window with these and other options didn't appear when the diplomat attempted to 'enter' Rome - nothing happened (however, I can attack Rome using military units). Also I was asked if I wanted to declare war on the barbarians when I attacked a barbarian unit for the first time. Something really strange seems to be going on.

    This was a major setback and delayed the development of my empire for centuries. Had I known this I would have focused my limited resources on discovering mapmaking ASAP and then sending out a trireme plus settlers to establish a colony somewhere. Now I'm #7 in population and haven't conquered Rome despite wasting a lot of resources on a diplomat, barracks and an extra horsemen unit. I only have two tiny colonies (size 1 cities) in addition to Vei (which is a size 4 city with a palace). Since this is only prince level I will quickly catch up with the AI but I don't know when I will be able to capture Rome. A possible option is to simply bite the bullet, raze Rome and then found the city of New Rome in the same spot :D.
     
  2. Duke of Marlbrough

    Duke of Marlbrough The Quiet Moderator Retired Moderator

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    There aren't any such intended limitations that I know of. What version of the game are you using?

    I was able to buy the city in both classic and MPG.
     
  3. Peaster

    Peaster Emperor

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    I was also able to buy the city, playing classic. I attacked it a few times first (hoping to get it for nothing) and on about the 3rd attack I got the same "Do you want to declare war on the barbarians?" message that The Viking got (weird, but harmless).

    BTW - I don't recall meeting many other barbs yet (just a few from a hut IIRC), even though the game is "raging hordes". Nothing else unusual to report.
     
  4. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

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    Location:
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    This is extremely weird - I just finished my second playing session and was able to buy Rome. Apparently I needed to save the game, exit Civ2, start it again and load the game to be able to buy Rome :confused:. I'm still the smallest civ but now rapidly catching up. Also my civ is already the most advanced one.
     
  5. Sharkbait

    Sharkbait Warlord

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    Oct 14, 2005
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    New Zealand
    You've got to love building a temple or barracks, selling it straight away and buying Rome!!!
     
  6. golem

    golem Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2001
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    Location:
    Praha, Czech rep.
    I did the same - three attacks on Rome, then I bought it for good price 52G. I had no messages.

    The problems starts 280 AD with new babs units. I am finishing the game in MGE now, but still have some "Martians" babs. Maybe this unit is instead of archers - normaly I have some babs archers, but now only legion, horse and Martian.

    BTW - the game was nice and quick. I forgot to build palace (did it 80 AD in Rome, after reading Uruwashi's post), so my science was horribly slow. That is why I decided for fast conquest. MPE was build 800 BC, Lighthouse 400BC. Now it is around 500 AD, one Spanish city rest and I am trying to increase score.
     
  7. geofelt

    geofelt Warlord

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    Apr 9, 2002
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    The key to this game is go build a palace ASAP. Without it, you get no worthwhile science. I made the mistake of eliminating some civs early, and they respawned. I should have kept a small non-palace city of each civ around until I could eliminate them in the same turn.
     
  8. Peaster

    Peaster Emperor

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    AFAIK destroying the AI civs in the same turn does not prevent re-spawns [according to several threads - I haven't tried it myself].

    One more strange effect has occured in my game, approx 200BC. I got the usual "withdraw your troops?" message from the Sioux, said "OK", and had various units withdrawn from Sioux lands AND from Spanish, Japanese and American lands. I was at war with two of those, almost ready to attack their capitols. Returning those troops will take many turns. :(

    IMO building a palace can wait until you have about 5 cities. Interesting that two players mentioned the effect on science, but not the effect on taxes (which seemed more important to me). IIRC I got no gold from huts, so it was hard to rush buy anything until the palace was built.
     
  9. LordValuna

    LordValuna High Lord

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    Hamilton Ontario Canada
    Good idea, didnt think of that. I popped huts to get a legion then attacked Rome till it was empty amd size 1, then bought it for the bargain price of 25 gp.

    I think it took too long for me to recapture Rome.
     
  10. Peaster

    Peaster Emperor

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    I don't usually post a detailed log, but here are the highlights.

    Pre-game: A palace will cost 200g, which is a good deal iff it saves 10a per turn (if interested, see my theory of interest thread). So, I will wait until my corruption total is that high, about the time of my 5th city. I will not hurry writing (to bribe Rome) but will raise taxes for rushes, for growth. In a slow-growth game, a few lucky hut results can make a huge difference, so I will use my horse to explore for them.

    IIRC you get a huge defensive bonus when barbs attack your cities, until you have about 7. So, I can defend easily with just the vet phalanx, and bring the vet horse back to attack, if/when Rome grows to size 3.

    4000: Veii (1): Horse goes NE. I reject the idea of disbanding units to make settlers faster, because I'm wary of Rome, and cuz they are vets. Taxes at max.

    3900: New settler makes a road, since a road fragment already exists.

    3750: Hut = a barb horse, and I have no movepoints left (Arggh!). But for some reason it doesn't attack next turn. I build Antium (2) at (10,14), very close to Rome (I wanted the grass) and defend it with the phalanx.

    3450: Writing -> Curr. I lowered taxes in approx 3700, once I had the gold to IRB an S, which built Cumae (3) in 3300BC.

    3250: Hut = nomads !! my favorite hut result by far. It will found Neapolis (4).

    3050: Pompeii (5) starts on a palace. At about this time, I checked the top 5 city screen and noticed that Rome was on it ! Size 3! It still appeared size 1 on my map, because I had never moved any units up to it. So, my vet horse will return, hoping to capture it. But first (2600), a barb archer moves out to attack my bold city of Antium. Fortunately my phalanx wins that battle.

    2900: "The Chinese have started on HG".

    2450: My horse finally attacks Rome and defeats an Archer, but the city is NOT emptied. Just reduced to size 2. I have 9 cities by now with the help of another nomad-hut.

    2100: Palace finished in Pompeii.

    1800: Horse brings Rome down to size 1, and I buy it 52g, my 13th city. Next turn, Curr -> Maps.

    1650: "Chinese start on HG" (sounds familiar?) and immediately "Chinese abandon HG" and then "Chinese start on the Colossus". The Chinese govt has a very short attention span.

    1450: Have finished Maps and then Trade, starting on Poly.

    1300: "Chinese start on HG" Those crazy Chinese :).

    I got Poly next turn, and had 20 cities. Instead of a careful plan (I am still tired from the GOTM63 landing marathon), I decided to go for Pyramids, for more growth, and to swarm the map with settlers for a while.

    1000: By this time I have gotten 2 nomads and a horse from huts, and have found the Greek island. I will make a ship-chain for trade (maybe a bad idea, since they don't want hides, and I am going for EC, rather than for landing). Also, "Chinese abandon Colossus".

    950: Have the Greek map, but can't find a good spot for an outpost. Have partial info on location of Japs, Viks, Chinese. Next turn: Lit -> Myst (but I don't really want more tech).

    875: Hut = Eburacum, on an island to the east. Pretty good hut luck this game, except for the barbs, and they did little harm. The "Top 5" screen showed several large cities, so I started thinking - vet crusaders. Also, I couldn't get the Chinese map because they had (almost) the same techs as me. Hmmm!

    825: Pyramids. I have 7 vans, 8 boats, 9 settlers, about 30 ciities, 800,000 pop, monarchy (whole game). Occasional riots.

    775: My first recorded van delivery, 184g, to Athens. I am almost as planless as the Chinese... can't decide on trade vs war, LH vs MPE, try for gold mainly from vans ? tribute? huts?

    At this point, I finally learned from the GOTM64 thread that Restarts are ON (grrrr). I will try to spread out across the map with isolated cities, barracks and boats. I was thinking of a Republic growth phase, but eventually decided not to try that with the restarts.

    725: MPE (and AI maps) makes planning easier. I must push towards the distant Spanish island ASAP, and it finally seems clear that LH will be useful.

    625 "Chinese abandon HG" :D "Chinese start on Colossus" :D

    I get phil + mono techs, and start on repub. A settler tips a hut on hill and meets 4 barbs. Somehow, it survives and will build an outpost against the Vikings. Now my vans start to pay off (not sure they were worth the cost + effort, though).

    575: Lighthouse. My notes estimate a conquest in about 20 turns (75BC). Turned out to be pretty accurate! I will try for tribute (or for the AI's to declare war - I prefer a decent rep with restarts on, to get maps later).

    525: "Spanish build Colossus" and of course "Chinese switch from Colossus to HG". 40 cities, 18 boats, 7 ellies.

    475: pottery

    425: HG (I think the Chinese switched to GL at this point). I start researching navigation (to speed up the inevitable respawn chase),
    but I don't actually want it until most of my vans are in (trade penalty), so I set science to zero after a few turns.

    At this point, my EC plans are coming together. I want to conquer the Greeks and re-use the troops on the Japs. Likewise, the Sioux/Spain will be a second campaign, and the Chinese/Viks are a third. It doesn't work exactly like that, but it's always better to have a plan.

    350: "Chinese abandon GL" and "Chinese start on GL" as I take Beijing. :)

    250: Chinese go down, re-spawn as USA. I will miss them.

    225: Greeks down, re-spawn as Carths (found easily with MPE).

    200: Mikes, and Carths down (no respawn).

    175: Bugs!! A Civ2 bug withdrew some of my attack forces from Spain, USA etc. Still, the USA went down. There was no respawn visible on the FM screen, but later I found some undocumented Persians and killed them.

    150: Magellan's. The Vikings finally declare war, and all four cities go down in one turn, with no respawn. Sioux visibles go down, but they have secretly built a 5th island city. I capture Madrid (walled) and the Colossus. I have a little bad battle luck in western Spain (my vet crusader can't beat an Archer on plains) and against Japan, but I have lots of force by now.

    125: Japs and Spain down (no re). Now only 1 Sioux city is left, and I consider Republic growth again, but I just missed an oedo year, and am not 100% sure my Senate would let me finish - so no.

    100: GW (Sioux allowed to live until this)

    75: Sioux down; respawn as Mongs, located and destroyed same turn; respawn as Indians, located and destroyed same turn. The End! :)

    I finished with 77 cities, 38 boats, and approx 34 crusaders. Not a huge score. Was a little lucky with huts and re-spawns, balanced by the two bugs and the delayed info about respawns. My reputation was Atrocious, but I could still get the last 2 AI maps.
     
  11. LordValuna

    LordValuna High Lord

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    Had a strange thing happen the other night, The Chinese were communist, when I took Beijing they spawned partisans, without the need of the guerilla warfare tech! Is this a bug for everyone.

    Well now I'm just killing the respawned civs, not much fun, but has to be done
     
  12. Andu Indorin

    Andu Indorin Retired Druid

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    If it's a bug, it's universal. Enemy cities spawn Partisans once they've acquired the Communism tech.
     
  13. TimTheEnchanter

    TimTheEnchanter I...am...an Enchanter!

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    I think I read from someone in the Scenario threads - I'm pretty sure it was Kobayashi - that it is Communism + Gunpowder= Partisans when cities captured. In a base game it's pretty standard that you would have GP before Commy, but in scenario's where new tech trees are built, it's an important distinction.
     
  14. grigor

    grigor Prince

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    Sep 27, 2001
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    I played to 200BC and have to leave town for 6 weeks, so there will be no finish for me in GOTM 64 or 65.

    This was a nice game, and I am sorry not to finish. I expanded as fast as I could. I got 50g from a polar hut and and was able to get Rome down to size 1 and bribe it in 2450 BC. I went for Maps after Writing, and had triremes exploring by 2250BC. Palace built in Rome in 1500BC. Trade in 1450BC. I found the Chinese, Greeks, and Japanese early and was ble to capture the Chinese cities early, getting Pyramids from them in 1200. That was sweet. Then HG (725), MPE (600), Colossus (450) Cope's (250). The last turn before I had to stop I had just captured LH from the Sioux (200 BC).

    My plan was to build the Chapel and Magellans, flood all the islands with settlers, and conquer by 500AD, maybe earlier. But the intervention of real life must be heeded.
    Sigh..
     
  15. Tigui

    Tigui Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2004
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    I have a problem. There is a bug in 410 AD. I was gonna win in a few turns there is some strange restarts and there's finally after a bug and after the computer say that I have to close it :mad:.
     
  16. Tigui

    Tigui Chieftain

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    I finally resolved the problem with a patch. I finished in 490Ad, I was expecting to finish in 430 AD but I took 6 turns to bribe the two last cities. The restarts were strange, for exemple the computer announced that the Persians were destroyed but they were still alive.
     
  17. LordValuna

    LordValuna High Lord

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    Sometimes the restarted civ is the same on you killed!
     
  18. Duke of Marlbrough

    Duke of Marlbrough The Quiet Moderator Retired Moderator

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    This game certainly was weird to play. It seemed that somethings were off throughout the game.

    The restarts were hit and miss, I killed the Vikings to have the Germans respwan with two different settler spots. Much later, when I killed the Germans, they came back as the Germans, interestingly enough, right in the spot I had just killed the Zulus in. I had planted spies around the map so a couple of the restarts were 'killed by barbarians' when I bought their starting settler. Towards the end though, no restarts came when I killed the last couple tribes.

    The most annoying things I had happen was when I tried to do an 'instant switch' of governments by discovering Fundamentalism during an Oedo year. The plan was to discover the tech with my last city so that I could witch governments to be able to declare war on the Greeks and Chinese (even though I pestered them for dozens of turns, trying different things to try and goad them into war).

    I discovered the tech, but, alas, it didn't give me the usual option to revolt as it does when you normally discover a government tech. So, I had to do it the hard way, boosting luxuries to avoid riots, switching governments, declaring war and then switching back.

    The best thing was the constant demand for cargos the Chinese had. I'd deliver a Silk (Silver as well), they would still demand it, deliver another, still demand it. I had a huge cash boon from deliveries of cargo to the Chinese early on (and later I pushed it farther away to the Siuox).

    I can't belive the many stupid things I did in this game though. The worst was deciding to use a group of un-demanded (extra) caravans to build the Hanging Gardens, only to realize later that I was close to the discovery of railroad and to have it expire a turn later.
     
  19. Ace

    Ace Emperor

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    20 points is twenty points! :goodjob:
     
  20. Dinamo

    Dinamo Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
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    Location:
    Tg-Jiu, Romania
    I've got a small problem with this game. I eliminated the last AI, I saved the game before end of the turn, I hit ENTER and the guillotine showed up, etc. Then it asked me if I wanted to continue or quit. As I didn't want to exit the game I said I wanted to play on. Later, when I prepared my saves for submition, I reloaded the last save to verify it and note my score. I hit ENTER and the game didn't end !!!! I am the only one in the game according to the MPE foreign advisor report, and I don't understand.
    My question is for the Duke , I guess : it is ok to sent this save file? Hope it is because I didn't have so much time last month I played a lot last few days and I really want to submit.
    As for my game - I was nice, but a little unusual as I never lost my Palace in the past AFAIK. I built many cities on the home island, took Rome after reducing it to size 1, bulit a Palace in Veii, then MPE, Lighthouse, and then I begun to conquer. I had so many restarts that I got tired of counting them, but at a point all of the AI seettlers were on the south pole, so I changed to Democraty, celebrated for a while, built a few wonders and then killed them all. I finished in 690 AD. Not such a great year, but I lost maybe 5-10 turns with the final "celebration faze".
     

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