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GOTM84 - Final Spoiler

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Game of the Month' started by civ_steve, Oct 27, 2008.

  1. civ_steve

    civ_steve Deity Retired Moderator GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2002
    Messages:
    3,866
    Location:
    formerly Santa Clarita, California

    GOTM 84 Final Spoiler - Game Submitted



    Reading Requirements:
    You may only read this thread if:
    1. You have completed and submitted your game.


    Posting Restrictions:
    1. None! (for THIS contest) As long as its related to the GOTM, and within the forum rules!
    [*]Absolutely NO Discussion of any other active 'X'OTM contest!

    Last chance to tell your story - from frozen, isolated start to ...

    Also, I thought this would be an interesting diversion from the typical GOTM game - low difficulty level with a poor start. Did you like it? (Or hate it?) What would you change?
     
  2. LTJG Perry

    LTJG Perry Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2006
    Messages:
    98
    Location:
    SS Unity
    Entry class: Open
    Game status: Histographic Victory for Iroquois
    Game date: 2050 AD
    Firaxis score: 2130
    Jason score: 2165

    I loved this game, bad start and all. Persia was an easy conquer since I got the iron before they did. And I lucked out that they built the GrLibrary. I suppose if Persia had the Fe, I could have tried to knock off Aztecs with bow and arrow. Wonder if anyone went that direction?
    ----edit: Now I've read the other spoilers, I see this was quite common.

    I decided to try a histo from the start, and I learned by the time it was over how I really screwed up. First, Future Tech isn't worth jack. Second, I should have planned ahead to stop a culture victory. I had 99980 culture at 2050, and that was only because I had to abandon about 30 cities around 2016,losing hundreds of territory and pop points. Building the Internet in this case was a huge error! Lost thousands of shields building universities in the Modern Age, before realizing they had to be sold. I built the Strategic Missile Defense for the first time ever, that was cool. In the final years, I had to war with America to stop a Spaceship. One of their cities had a Nuke they never used on me. Because AI didn't want to lose it v. the SMD? Or just dumb? I had already hit them 12 times with nukes.

    Started out by walking the Settler 2 squares NE and founding Salamanca there. Next city was 1 sw of the starting point; I didn't notice the Whale until I pushed the build button, and it was forever out of reach, and that city was of little use beyond the Middle Ages. My 3rd city was on the middle hill of the eastern continent, near Salamanca in 550 BC. (The endgame animation showed most civs had ~8 cities at this time.) The lone Goody Hut produced a Warrior.

    Researched Alpha, writing, MapMkg, wheel and got WC from Aztecs, BW and Myst from China,IW and Mason from Persia. Researched Lit, and everyone had it the same turn I did. Got CoL,Phil,HbR from Carthage for a pittance of Au. Math from China, Poly from Korea, Currency from Carthage. Republic and Monarchy were spoils of the First Persian War. Kept all captured cities that didn't auto raze, except 1 that was too close to Persep and had a large pop. Immediately switched to REPUBLIC.

    Feudalism from Mongols, Monotheism from Korea. 20 turns after PW1, PW2 began. Captured Persep in 1255AD and learned Theo, Chiv, Inv, PrPr, Edu, GPowder, Bank, Astro, Chem, Econ, Phys, Metlrgy. Everyone learned Music that turn, but easily traded for it and also brought in wines, furs, silk, horses, Democracy, Nav and a huge amount of Gold. Mounted Warrior v. Persian Spearman set off the Golden Age the same turn (1340AD) as I wiped out Persia, but not before doing the old Military Aliance trick:
    t Amer MA v Persia, +MilTrad +ToG +Magnet +55g +WM
    giving them 153gpt for 0 turns. What a bargain!

    In 1380 AD, my first culture flip: a small Zulu town on the coast NE of the first Iron. Grand River builds Newton's in 1400AD. 1415, Greece surprise attacks me. MA Egypt, Rome, & Zulu for very little gold; Greece MAs with Carthage.
    Researched Steam and traded for a total of 400g + 500gpt +KNO3 including this deal:
    t Korea +Natlsm +FreeArt +96g
    -Steam -140gpt -gems
    then a Pikeman cut the gems. Didn't notice any rep hit for this. Traded Korea Fe for much of the game, for lots of $$.

    In 1435 FP built in Persep. Took a few Greek towns, one flipped back, and I abandoned the other. Made a crapload more money selling Electricity. 1535 GL Shenandoah appears and forms an Army of 3 cavalry, who get a win v. a Greek Rifle. Peace with Greece and a small town of theirs (ex-Arab) on their NW border is mine.

    In 1550 I learned Medicine and traded it around for obscene gold, gpt and Industrial.

    By 1570, my score was 2nd place - 240 pts behind China. I declare war on them and switch to Democracy. Crazy, huh? 1625 H_Epic in Salamanca, Mil Acad in Persep. 1635 ToE in Grand River.

    1670 Japan declares on me, and captures the town Greece gave me for peace. I retaliate by declaring on Rome and start easily capturing their cities. Around 1730, complete BatMed, IntAgency, and Pentagon. 1785 Rome and Greece wipe out Egypt. By 1804, I'm at peace with the world and 180 pts behind China. I also have no Oil.

    In 1820 I declare on America to get their Oil (1 in their land, 1 they captured from China). Amer & Japan had an MPP, so it's on again with them. Korea Declares, they have MPP with Japan.
    1828 America cons Carthage into MPP, so more war there, but I also PT Korea and Japan. In 1844, America gets MA with Arabs. American War ends in 1852, with both their oil fields in my hands, plus another in the land of ex-Rome.

    1864, I discover Fission and trade it around for 1800g +500gpt +Amphib +Rocketry. 100 points behind China. in 1872 built UN in Persep.

    1880, DoW on China. I MA Mongols, Japan, Greece, Zulu, Korea giving out silks and amphib. The Mongols bring the Aztecs to the party, and tiny Rome and Carthage jump in, too. Then Korea brings America in. 1906 SETI built in Susa, and I put a spy in China. 1908 Shanghai (dyes) flips back to China, and I decide to finish off Rome. Mongols apparently had MPP with them, and then Arabs had MPP'd with Mongol. 1910 , I have top score. 1912 Rome is no more. 1914 built Internet in Persepolis. Dumdumde DUMB!
    Mongols MA Korea against me, then Korea MA Greece. 1918 Carthage declares (MPP Arab). Capture Beijing from China, Pyramids and JSB. It flips back a little later.1922 China gives 2 towns and 54g for peace.

    1924 Aztecs wipe out Zulu and declare on me (MA with Mongol). 1932 GL Cornplanter Cures Cancer from his basement lab in Shanghai. I figure that will proof it from flipping. PT Arabs,Korea.

    1938 Aztecs MA Japan against us, and I put a spy in Jp. 1947 Longevity built in Susa.
    1952 PT Aztec (+120g) , Carthage, Mongols (+16gpt)
    1958 Capture Nara (japanese, pop 2) with Smith's Trading. in 1962 the Mongols finish off Japan. Aztecs pay me 20gpt to embargo Mongols.(Mong is #2 score now)

    In 1975 , The Aztecs are down to one city, so I MA the few civs with cash against them for gpt and wipe them out. Made a cool 310g. In 1980, I declare on China and finish them off 3 years later.

    Unfortunately, Beijing with the Pyramids belongs to America. In 1984 Mongols declare on Korea. They look like they could build a Spaceship to me, so I RoP Mongols and set up for the betrayal.

    Ready in 1989, I declare War on Mongolia, and MA the rest of the world against them. Korea pays 32gpt for the MA. I also have learned about Nuclear Power and sell that (sometimes part of the MA; sometimes not) for a total of 600g +150gpt. Put a spy in Mongolia, and see they have not started a ship. Around here I notice my culture is getting close to win pace, so I turn off all cultural construction, and sell temples and cathedrals where I don't need them. If only that were enough...
    I launch 7 TACs and 5 ICBMs against Mongolia and start the massacre. Flip 3 American towns. (Not Beijing.) By 2002 Mongols are gone, and I own Oracle, Sistine, Hoover, and Universal Suffrage.

    Build "Star Wars" in 2011 at Susa. In 2014 , I have culture 92945, and calculation shows I have to sell the rest of temples, coloseums, cathedrals,(+ libs and unis in towns doing <70 science). I abandon 30 cities (Stupid Internet) that lose as little territory as possible. 2015 now I learned that I need the optionals before I can make Future Tech. Had I known earlier, recycling would have been nice to have while I was selling this culture off before I set off the latest 100K game submitted. Of course, going for FTech in the 1st place was dumb since it adds so few points.

    By 2043 I have Future Tech 3 and just enough time to learn 1 more. I put a spy in America and see they are 6(3) with their ship. Investigation of Mecca shows the Arabs need 17 turns to build Stasis, so I don't worry about them. Noone else has enough Tech to concern me. I tell America to Remove or Declare, and they chose war. Nice. MA everyone, giving Adv Flight, Stealth or Recycling. I immediately sink 5 American Nuc Subs I had been shadowing for decades, and launch 7 ICBMs and 5 TACs against them. I raze all their cities but Beijing. They are wiped out in 2047.

    I start joining workers wherever they'll fit. Learn FT4 in 2049, slide up to 100% Lux and party like a rock star. :band:
     
  3. Megalou

    Megalou Thez worlds are not enuf

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Sweden
    I reached domination in 1325 AD. That was really as fast as I could finish this stretch; I even hurried loads of temples.

    For the first time since I can remember, the man with the club at the end was lacking power and the title I was given was merely "Hiawatha the Conquerer." Makes me think of the Disney character Little Hiawatha.

    The game was really settled way back in the ancient age when I took the Zulu horses peacefully and then slowly built up an army. One mistake might have been to not focus 100% on mounted warriors and FP at that stage - I built some settlers too. On the other hand I needed to have 12 towns to be allowed to build the FP so what could I do...? Yet it was frustrating to have both Zulu and Aztec towns at RCP2 and 3 from my new capital for so long. In a warlord game nearby towns have virtually no corruption. And here I was spending 9 turns on Military Tradition. (But by then the Zulu were dead at least.) It's pretty clear to me that instead of building a granary in Salamanca I should have gone for warriors. They would have required no upkeep and, most importantly, they could have been transported to Zululand upgraded to MIs. Perhaps then I could have captured a few more towns in the early MA, which would have shaved off quite a few turns of research.

    It will be interesting to see if there was a better method altogether. So far, I believe that my method was the best one, with the above modification: I should have gone for those six warriors instead of the granary.

    I've kept no notes since it was all so straightforward: Building mounted warriors, upgrading them to cavalry and roll over the AI.

    My score was in the 7Ks.

    Thanks for an interesting game.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Sima Qian

    Sima Qian 太史令

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Messages:
    730
    After getting GLib, the Iroquois treasury grew at an impressive rate, allowing me to rush several cultural buildings and dedicate more turns to building wonders.

    I was somewhat taken aback when the silly warlord AI's beat me to both Copernicus and Newton, but on the flip side those shields turned into prebuilds for Sistine Chapel and Shakespeare's. Actually, I probably could have gotten Newton's without much hassle if I researched a little faster, since I wound up building JS Bach's instead of using it as a prebuild.

    As a result, tech was quite slow during the industrial age. I was able to instigate a few wars to keep the AI's tied up, with nothing to worry about since I had a unit on every land tile and there was no place for the enemy to land (until Marines, of course).

    Finally reached modern age in 1908 AD and slowly built SETI and a research lab. There weren't enough turns to finish the UN before the rest of the world simply decided to bow down before the cultural might of the Long House.

    Entry class: Predator
    Game status: Cultural 20K Victory for Iroquois
    Game date: 1978 AD
    Firaxis score: 216
    Jason score: 732
    Time played: 02:27:33

     
  5. civ_steve

    civ_steve Deity Retired Moderator GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2002
    Messages:
    3,866
    Location:
    formerly Santa Clarita, California
    Nicely done, Sima Qian! Did you play the entire game as an OCC? I founded a 2nd city on the southern shore of the island, and that was very useful for building Workers and other units to support the capital. Of course I can't submit any final game.
     
  6. Sima Qian

    Sima Qian 太史令

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    730
    @civ_steve

    OCC is pretty much the only way I can ever finish these games, otherwise they take way too long for me. This time, though, I wouldn't be surprised if other players went for an OCC as well.

    Obviously, I'm not playing for points or rankings, although GOTM83 was a strange surprise.
     
  7. krakedhalo

    krakedhalo Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2007
    Messages:
    115
    Entry class: Open
    Game status: Domination Victory for Iroquois
    Game date: 1485 AD
    Firaxis score: 2302
    Jason score: 6576
    Time played: 25:50:28

    My choice not to build any cities off of our icy homeland meant Domination came a little slower than otherwise, but i still had fun with it. Mounties overran America and Zulu after archers took out the Aztecs. I hand built an FP in one of the Aztec core cities, so I had pretty good production in that area, and later moved capital twice with leaders.

    I had about six or seven leaders overall, used for Palace, SZ, Leo's, Palace, then Bach's, Adam Smith, and Magellan once I had no use for them. Civs fell in this order:

    Aztec
    America
    Zulu/Japan simultaneously
    Greece (first and basically only civ to put up a fight)
    Egypt/Carthage
    Korea
    Mongols
    Arabs
    Rome - down to 1 city at game end.

    Never had any problems with Persia or China, didn't even set a foot in their territories. Instead I RPP'ed them both, and they fought a verrrry long, very long distance war throughout my land.

    Had enough cash to rush temples everywhere once the resisters quieted down.
     
  8. greatbeyond

    greatbeyond King

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2002
    Messages:
    978
    After finally finishing I went back and checked. My first off Island city was 590BC. I went East and got the Iron but was hampered by an early war as I explained in the first thread. It seems the quicker route to victory was going west and taking on the Aztecs, though in my game they and the Zulu were fairly strong.
    I strung this game out for the pure pleasure of it and hoped to be set for a culture/Dom/SR/Histo win at the same time. Alas, I lost interest, way to much MM required. In the end it was a Dom win at 2037AD, very late.

    Congrats to Sima Qian on another OCC 20K victory. From the looks of your's and Civ Steve's discussion it was probably the simplest way to go. After all, the start area was so bad, no one would want to fight you for it. ;) I think you got a little lucky with the GL to keep you on the tech pace, but I think you still would have met your goal.
     
  9. tao

    tao Deity

    Joined:
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    2,831
    Location:
    Germany
    Doo. I was going 100k, but ran out of time, hurried, and crossed the domination limit in 1600AD. :(
     
  10. civ_steve

    civ_steve Deity Retired Moderator GOTM Staff

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    Messages:
    3,866
    Location:
    formerly Santa Clarita, California
    I should finish the story of my unsubmittable game.

    Entered the IA in 1490 AD, trying for 20K cultural. I believe I've done enough to achieve the victory, assuming the AI don't win in some other way. My entire army consists of 2 Warriors, 1 in each city, so I give into every demand that comes my way; I want to avoid warfare at all cost. While I do have the option to trade for resources from time to time, I've chosen not to; I'm able to sustain a size 12 pop in my capital with 0 luxuries so the lack of luxuries are not an issue. But with no strategic resources, I would have very limited units to build anyway, so I plan to stick with my 2 warriors and avoid warfare.

    Wonders - the only 2 GW's I can build are UnivSuff and TOE, and probably only 1 of them. I can use Bank for pre-build, but there's still a lot of shields to complete either of them. I choose Steam Power as my first IA tech, a requirement for either Wonder, and I'll make my choice about which to pursue after I see which Techs the AI have.

    After I learn Steam Power, I see that 2 AI (Greece and Korea) have Electricity already. None have Industrialism. I decide I have a slightly better chance for UnivSuff, and go for Industrialism while starting to save shields in a Bank. I learn IND, and use SMTBP to convert the build to UnivSuff during the in-between turn. I am first to IND, and with 200 shields into US, I feel I have a great chance to complete it first. And I do in 1785 AD.

    I cross 10K in 1725. UnivSuff adds 4 cpt; probably enough to take 4 or 5 turns off the final date. TofE goes before I can get a shot at it. The only other IA building with cultural value is the Intelligience Agency, so I learn the required Techs and build it, but at 1 cpt, it might save a turn or 2 only.

    The rest of the game was spent chasing the Tech leaders and trading with the Tech followers. I didn't want to benefit the leaders to slow them down as much as possible, and my research was a bit faster because I was never the first to learn any Tech at this point. Greece was gobbling up civs (Persia, Rome, Egypt and most of the Zulu), so there was some risk that Alex might get to Domination. I was only a spectator to that possibility.

    I entered the Modern Era in 1926 AD. At that time I could tell that Ecology had not been learned yet by the Tech leaders, so I was very confident that a Space Ship was not going to happen. Greece pushed into the Computers tech path, and built SETI. Fission was already learned, and Greece completed the Manhattan project. Japan learned UN; that was probably good because Greece was a much larger civ so Japan wasn't likely to call for a vote.

    Pollution started to happen, so I built a few Workers to clean it up. I continued to give into demands, and never was at war. Japan never called for a UN vote. Greece stopped expanding. About 10 turns before victory a large scale war broke out, and with lots of MPP's in place, most of the remaining civs were involved. But not Greece. Nor I, for I made sure I neve entered into any MPP's. Finally ... 20K in 1963.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Megalou

    Megalou Thez worlds are not enuf

    Joined:
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    Congratulations, nicely done!
     
  12. JonathanValjean

    JonathanValjean Porschephile

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Charlottesville, VA, USA
    CivSteve,

    I really enjoyed reading about your 20K game. I tinkered around with the game a couple of weeks ago, but after I failed to get the Great Library (in a city on the mainland), I decided not to continue with the game. Who knew that it was possible to score a 20K victory in the island?! Well done! Also, keep up the good work. Due to graduate school and work, I rarely get to indulge in my favorite game of all time, but it certainly is nice to know that the possibility of competing is everpresent.
     
  13. Nata

    Nata Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    170
    Location:
    Boston, USA
    For purely academic interest:
    I didn't have time to play this game but wanted to try One City Challenge with it.

    Just completed it now - Diplomatic Win in 2033AD.
    Whew! That was close, and I made some bone-headed moves (going for Radio when later everyone went for Radio, and not buying Steam Power with all my gpt when I could) costing me probably around 40 turns.
    Still, I'm very pleased. :)

    Settled near Fishes like in Civ-Steve set-up, growing to 4, then to 6 with Harbour etc.
    AI agression and treacherousness here was insane - everyone was at war with everyone else, everyone was making trade embargoes against me and breaking alliances every turns.
    I managed to get Iron from time to time, and max of 3 Lux, which I didn't need really because of constant War Happiness. But most of the game was resource-free.

    I never played a game where it took so long to do everything. Techs took me 20-25 turns in IA, and I spent 38(!) turns on Fission and 19 turns after that finishing UN prebuild, as the biggest prebuild I could do beforehand was Intelligence Agency. And still AIs lost, even though couple of them went into Modern Times before me.

    I did all I could, getting Colossus, Copernicus, Newton, Factory when I got Iron for a few turns, Hospital going up to 16 ppl, Commercial Dock. All 3 science Civs drew Computers but would trade for gpt with me, so I couldn't buy it and at least get Research Lab to speed up Fission.

    As for wars - I filled in the island with military, and only got bombed a couple of times in the very end.
    I never managed to buy Workers, and that was another pain in the end, as growth was very slow even with Granary, so building a Worker would be very pricy. But I needed them for pollution clean-up.
    But at least it was doable! Everyone was at war with me in the end, and I used amassed cash to buy peace with everyone and get them into MA against Mongols who were run-aways.

    Now to think of it - I never saw Chengiz-Khan in the modern duds before. Was worth it just for this. :)
     

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