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Government Structure (Strider's/Daveshack's proposal)

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Demo Game VI: Citizens' started by Chieftess, Feb 16, 2005.

  1. Chieftess

    Chieftess Moderator Retired Moderator

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  2. Black_Hole

    Black_Hole Chieftain

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    if it is premade where is it at?
     
  3. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    :lol: It's a Bush Proposal, BH. It's put together after it's approved. :lol:
     
  4. Chieftess

    Chieftess Moderator Retired Moderator

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  5. Black_Hole

    Black_Hole Chieftain

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    sorry, I forgot to memorzie those Bush philosophies by heart ;)

    technically CT it isnt premade, we have 2 pre made constitutions that we need to smush together
     
  6. ravensfire

    ravensfire Member of the Opposition

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    Realistically, it's only the Executive branch that should require "smooshing", and honestly, I just don't see how.

    Go with the option that got the most support - DaveShacks' concept.

    -- Ravensfire
     
  7. Black_Hole

    Black_Hole Chieftain

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    I agree, maybe we just use DaveShacks plan for the branches and use striders plan for everything else...
     
  8. Chieftess

    Chieftess Moderator Retired Moderator

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    That sounds like a plan. Someone should write it up nicely.
     
  9. CivGeneral

    CivGeneral Valkyrie Grand General

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    I was hoping to see that the traditional government would still be around :-/.
     
  10. ravensfire

    ravensfire Member of the Opposition

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    Proposed Article D, E and F (Exec, Legis and Judic)

    Article D.

    The Executive Branch is responsible for determining and implementing the will of the people. It is headed by the President, who is the primary designated player. The President will take direction from a cabinet of leaders and other elected and appointed officials through the game session instruction thread.
    1. The President coordinates the activities of the Strategic Council and Tactical Directors.
    2. The Strategic Council is responsible for the creation of long-term plans for $COUNTRY_NAME. These leaders do not handle day-to-day activities, but focus on the overall direction of their areas of expertise. These plans are posted once a week in a planning thread, and are updated as needed.
    a. The Consul for Domestic Policy establishes goals for city settlement, workforce and fiscal management.
    b. The Consul for External Policy establishes goals for our dealings with foreign nations, both peaceful relations and military strategic goals.
    c. The Consul for Cultural Policy establishes plans for the cultural growth of $COUNTRY_NAME, including cultural levels, wonders and space ships.
    d. The Consul for Resources and Technologies Policy establish research goals and trade parameters.
    3. The Tactical Directors implement the plans of the Strategic Council into specific instructions given to the Designated Players through the game session instruction thread.
    a. The Commander of Armed Forces is in charge of all military unit actions, including settler escorts, tactical war plans and unit upgrade requests.
    b. The Director of Commerce is in charge of contact with foreign nations, including trade, treaties and espionage.
    c. The Director of Infrastructure coordinates all worker actions. They also control the slider.
    d. The Director of Expansion determines the specific placement of new cities within the scope of all Strategic Council plans. They lead discussions on provincial boundaries, and control all cities without a Governor. They also approve all uses of cash.


    Article E. Legislative Branch
    The Legislative Branch shall be formed of the House of the People and Governors of $COUNTRY_NAME

    Section 1. The House of the People
    The House of the People will be formed of the entirety of the citizenry and is responsible for the drafting of new Laws and Amendments to the Constitution. The House will present all proposed Articles, Amendments and Laws to the Judicial Branch for review.

    Section 2. The Governors
    Governors are responsible for the care, management, use of the cities, and use of lands of a province through the setting of build queues, allocation of laborers on tiles, population rushes and drafting of citizen soldiers.

    Section 3. Mayors
    Mayors are appointed by a governor and tasked with the ability to monitor and advise governors for the care, management, and used of the cities. They are limited to the power the governor gives them.

    Article F. The Judicial Branch
    The Judicial Branch will consist of one Chief Justice, one Public Defender and a Judge Advocate. These three justices are tasked with upholding the Constitution and its supporting laws in a fair and impartial manner. The Chief Justice shall have the additional responsibility to organize and conduct the affairs of the Judicial Branch. The Public Defender will act as counsel for an accused individual. The Judge Advocate will act as the prosecution.

    Comments:
    Obviously, not formatted, but I wanted to get it out here. Positions are directly from DS's proposal. I moved some stuff around slightly on the directors to keep them involved throughout the game. Note the split of slider and cash control - must be that accountant background or something. The Director of Expansion will see an interstest shift in duties as the game goes one - that will be interesting to watch.

    -- Ravensfire
     
  11. Strider

    Strider In Retrospect

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    You can't go with an option that won by one vote, espicially if there were 2 other options discounting those two.

    No, we should be re-polling it with just the top two.
     
  12. MOTH

    MOTH Chieftain

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    I disagree about re-polling with only those two. I would rather see a compromise than stick with the traditional government.

    If we are going to re-poll then we should have more of a spectrum vote. I see this conversation as hammering out a compromise to place in the middle of the 2 highest vote getters.
     
  13. Black_Hole

    Black_Hole Chieftain

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    excellent! the only thing I would do is create a vice president position
     
  14. mhcarver

    mhcarver Newspaper Mogul

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    somewhat off topic but has there been any discussion about a nation name yet?
     
  15. Strider

    Strider In Retrospect

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    A "compromise" I would be willing to work our is placing deputies in control of day to day activities, and leaders in control of the long-term affairs. That is, quite possibly, the only compromise I will accept.

    I've yet to see any "compromise" that is actually a compromise, every single one I've seen INCLUDES EVERY ASPECT OF THE ALTERNATIVE GOVERNMENT.
     
  16. ravensfire

    ravensfire Member of the Opposition

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    Black_Hole,

    I haven't put anything for deputies in there. There are two options I can think of. First, use the traditional approach for deputies, one for each office. The second would be to have a VP, then align a consul and a director, making them deputies for each other.

    I'd prefer the first approach.

    -- Ravensfire
     
  17. MOTH

    MOTH Chieftain

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    I actually mostly agree with you on that point. That was why I was arguing that Provolution's proposal was middle ground. Maybe you missed that proposed compromise.

    In any extent, I wouldn't expect to see a compromise put forward to your liking unless you are the one to write it up.
     
  18. Strider

    Strider In Retrospect

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    Well, I'm not "willing" (or able for that matter) to write a compromise.

    I'm not able to write one for two reasons, the first being I have little joy or motivation to do anything with the alternative government (discounting the fact I have know idea how Daveshack wanted it to work). The second is that I just got over two days of being sick, and I've yet to fully gather my wits. Actually, just doing what I am right not is giving me a headache.

    Now, I'm not willing for one main reasons. I'm completely against the timing of this proposal. If Daveshack would have proposed it maybe next demogame, then I would have been fine (might have even gave up a few points and supported it). However, we have far to many problems in the demogame as it is, and now is not the time for it. We can experiment with new things when we've got a solid base under us.

    Edit: Provolutions I see as a decent compromise, with some modifications I'll be pretty happy.
     
  19. Ashburnham

    Ashburnham Chieftain

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    If there are so many problems with the current Demogame, how will sticking with a traditional form of government fix them? It sounds like we'd just be repeating the mistakes that took place in the last 5 games. We can't fix any problems by using the same old system, we need something new to work with.

    I agree that Provolution's proposal was an excellent compromise between the two extreme proposals, but it seems we're only discussing DaveShack's and Strider's now. If that's the case, then we need to implement some of the "alternative" options into our constitution to ensure that we have a system that's not totally dependant on the flaws of past games.
     
  20. Strider

    Strider In Retrospect

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    Why? Because the problems I am thinking of is not problems with the rules, but problems with our citizens, leaders, etc.

    We need to concentrate on ending the fights, bringing in more citizens, organizing the demogame better, and many other things that have nothing to do with the system.
     

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