Governments and Politics III

[Civleader]

@Razonatair: businesses exist as rudimentary bartering trading. Farmers, miners, craftsmen, Warriors, etc are always needed. To find a job simply do a movement to search for a job, in what district of the city, and the job you would like if you have one in mind. As to your last question: exactly, why would they right? That's doesn't stop you from speaking. What you must do is somehow gain the respect and recognizability to not only speak but be listened

@Jehoshua: ok, I'll post it as soon as possible

 

[Razonatair]

OOC;

Then I could search for a job with the caravans to Jerusalem?

 

[dot80]

Public Speech

I commend Shu Wei for speaking his mind on the issues before us. If China is to be made great, we must not be afraid to listen to one another. I will be calling the council together in Session 1, Turn 3 to confer and make the final decisions on where our people are to go next. Before that time, I encourage any and all who wish to give input to speak their mind. China will only be stronger for it. For now we are at a crossroads in our history. Shall we continue to rise on a path to honor and glory? Or shall we falter, and fade into obscurity?

Spoiler :

OOC: As indicated by Civleader in his opening post, I shall be assisting him in the management of AI responses to players. When I post (unless its in ooc), I will be posting as one of the AI politicians listed in the reference chart. I will try to always make it clear who is talking when by titling each post with their name and position.


ALSO, if you would be so kind Gurra as to PM me with a list of Chinese characters for the AI politicians that would be much appreciated I would love to use them in the name labels.

 

[Razonatair]

Wu Xin (吴&#20449

After listening to Shu Wei's speech, Xin took a moment to contemplate it, eventually coming to the decision that the man spoke with far too many grandiose words. While they may be somewhat effective for reaching more highborn citizens, Xin couldn't help but feel that the common people would be left behind. Sighing, he turned away and went on with his business, looking for a job with one of the caravans to Jerusalem in the middle district of Beijing.

Having come from a rural farming family, and seeking a better life, Xin had begun to plan and plot. And step one was to acquire money. The caravans needed people to run them, and Xin planned to get his foot in the door any way he could. Yes, it was potentially dangerous, but a little risk was necessary if the man was to push onward.

 

[Patchy]

Public Speech

Shu Wei makes a compelling speech, it is true that we would all indeed profit from a closer inspection of our spirit and traditional virtues in this time of uncertainty. Where else to better find guidance in lifting ourselves up than what made us who we are in the first place? It should be cautioned that in this time of change we do not lose ourselves in haste to advance ourselves. In the pursuit of this I agree that it would be wise to first construct a shrine.

However, if we are to be able to honor our ancestors with one hand we must also make certain our safety and stability with the other. And what greater threat to our safety could there be now than the Zulu? Their recent expansion threatens to leave them encroaching upon our land, these people are known to not be peaceful or civilized like the Chinese. Their first emissary looked not to find ways to create a profitable relationship but left at our door a threat. We have had to deal with brutes similar to them before, it would be best for us to take a lesson from history and this time be prepared to deal with them. As such it is clear that we should bring our warriors back to guard our people and garrison Shanghai while in Beijing we increase our military by building another unit of archers to protect ourselves with after the shrine completes.

Furthermore we should also look to ourselves to see where we may also improve, and one clear source is our productivity. I advise that the workers be sent to construct a mine in the hills to the south of Beijing. Meanwhile we may also better create a glorious society by researching the ways of construction which will benefit us across multiple fronts.

 

[Jehoshua]

Discussion

The idea to train an archer after a shrine is meritorious, the distinction from my own proposal that we should construct a paper maker is that we would not obtain financial and scholarly benefits from a new unit, whereas we would have a stronger defensive force in the immediate term.

With regards to the idea that we should research construction, I must respectfully disagree with this proposal. While we would presumably gain more advanced weaponry (composite bowmen) and building techniques from such research, I believe that advancing our knowledge through perfecting bronze working would be of more utility on the military front, in addition to being quicker to achieve (55 beakers to 105) providing us with the means to craft superior weapons for our warriors (spearmen) and leading to further advances in metallurgy in the future (iron working, iron being revealed on the map by bronze working).

 

[Patchy]

Discussion

I suggested recruiting an archer before a paper maker is because in our current situation we have a greatly diminished ability to defend ourselves as we have only two units meaning that any attempt to go and confront an enemy force requires us to leave our cities unguarded while our warriors fight. Even just one more unit allows us to be more flexible and defend our countryside instead of having to choose between leaving our city without a garrison and letting our farms and mines be ransacked. After we have done this we would be much more secure in looking to the future and constructing a paper maker to gain its long term benefits.

The reason I suggested construction is because unlike bronze working it addresses more than one area of growth for us. We would not only gain powerful new units but also the ability to create large buildings (the colosseum) to entertain the citizens and keep the populous happy and also allow us to increase the production potential of our civilization through advances in lumbering (lumber-mill improvement). It is the combination of all these benefits that makes me believe that the extra time spent in researching construction would not be time wasted.

 

[Jehoshua]

Discussion

Your argument for an archer is reasonable, as I said before. At the same time though I think its a matter of whether it is expedient or not to build one or another at the present time. If we are not in imminent danger it may not be necessary to immediately train archers, particularly if the state can hire an additional military unit in the meantime from the state reserves. However if on the other hand the Zulu are troublesome or we face imminent barbarian hordes, training an additional unit would be the superior option.

As to construction, while large buildings to entertain the citizens would be useful, I do not think the potential for increased production via forestry is that significant, given our current territories and the current itinerary for our workers. Furthermore the contingent benefits of improving our metallurgy through bronze working are superior to the contingent benefits of construction, particularly given our military situation and the current contented state of the citizenry (+3 happiness currently).

-

Public Speech

We would suggest to the people, that our labour force is currently allocated inefficiently, hindering greatly China's development. If the Lords re-allocate workers from two farms in Beijing to the stone and the desert hill on which it has been proposed to construct a mine, the production of the city will greatly increase, decreasing the amount of time required to complete civic works. Additionally this can be done without jeopardising a stable food supply for the city, even more so considering the granary project is nearing completion, and will likely assist in preventing overpopulation due to super-abundant food resources thus ameliorating some of the problems in the lower district and reducing the prevalence of slums on the city outskirts over time. We would additionally suggest that it would be better to construct a quarry, before we construct a mine. This will give similar production benefits in the immediate term while giving us access to stone for public works and building.

With regards to Shanghai, its management is currently very suboptimal. We would advise that labour be reallocated from the infertile tundra to the silver hill. While this will reduce the food supply to the city to just above the subsistence level, it will hasten the completion of the monument and future projects there through improved access to the necessary materials. This will then enable the local lord to construct a granary to stabilise and improve the food supply of that city enabling more consistent long term growth in the future. Additionally state finances will improve from this proposed reallocation of the labour force as wealth flows into the city.

 

[Et_Absoluti]

Gui Ho ignored the men debating and proceeded to go about his business, while he knew that discourse helped the nation he could add no more that what had already been said. He needed to make his fortune. Early in the morning he decided to go looking around in the poor district taverns for anyone who needed to protection(Job Hunting as a bodyguard).

 

[christos200]

Public Speech

Although I come from a humble family of Emissaries working for Lord Wong, I cannot help but make known my admiration for Mr. Shu Wei and his proposal to build a shine. A shrine is indeed needed, for if the people do not follow the examples of the great Sages and are not righteous, then everything else would be of no help to China, including military and financial power. For without the people and the rulers being righteous, how can good use be made of the above mentioned powers and how can the people prosper? Instead, everyone will try to use the military and finances for their own prosperity and not the peoples' prosperity.

Righteousness and following the examples set by the Sages of times past by, are the only ways for China to prosper.

 

[filli_noctus]

Fei Li stepped forward, determined to make his voice heard.

Public Speech
My lords and fellow citizens, I believe that Shu Wui speaks great wisdom and we would do well to heed him. I would advocate, however, Sun Chih's advice to train a unit of archers prior to the construction of a paper maker. The Zulu barbarians are violent warmongers and the greatest threat that China faces and their warriors pose a great threat to Shanghai.

To that extent I would further advocate that our scout explore north to try to locate a more civilised people beyond the lands of the Zulu who may be similarly threatened by these barbarians and be willing to enter into a pact of mutual aid when the savages can contain there violent natures no longer.

 

[dot80]

Discussion

While I will agree to the decision to construct a shrine in the Beijing, I think it would be negligent to build anything else besides another unit to defend ourselves afterward. Fei Li and Sun Chih speak with wisdom in this regard, heed their words. The Zulu are growing ever more aggressive on our northern border, and I fear we are forgetting the lessons of the Crimson War. We must arm ourselves against those who would do us harm. This peace with the Zulu should not be counted on to hold while we draw in on ourselves and build frivolous buildings. Instead we become strong in the face of this great threat.

 

[Jehoshua]

Discussion

The Zulu are indeed a great threat, and I agree that if the threat is as great as you say that training a unit after the completion of a shrine is the better option. The sole considerations that might render my proposal for a paper-maker (with its concordant benefits in the fields of commerce and scholarship, the latter of these giving us a long term advantage over our foes) more immediately in the national interest is if the state can afford to hire a unit immediately, and if the Zulu are weaker than we might otherwise expect militarily or distracted with other adversaries.

Speaking with regards to the Zulu however, I would also note that the Zulu menace renders my proposal for the state to focus on researching bronze working to improve our weaponry to be a superior choice over the alternatives proposed, since the establishment of mass-producible arms (bronze spears) would enable more efficient military organisation (barracks).

 

[filli_noctus]

Discussion
Undoubtedly in the current climate Bronze Working is the only rational area in which to direct our research efforts.

 

[Gurra09]

OOC: On second thought, I don't think I will have the time to keep up with this game so I'm dropping out. Will be following the thread to see what you're up too though.

IC: Gu Rou went out for a walk in the rural parts of Beijing but got lost in the woody hills north-east of the city. Rumours are that she walked out right into Zulu lands where she is thought to have been either killed or imprisoned.

 

[Jehoshua]

OOC: There goes our token female character. (oh and she was clearly dismembered for sorcerous purposes [muti], far better for propaganda )

 

[Civleader]

Gui Ho ignored the men debating and proceeded to go about his business, while he knew that discourse helped the nation he could add no more that what had already been said. He needed to make his fortune. Early in the morning he decided to go looking around in the poor district taverns for anyone who needed to protection(Job Hunting as a bodyguard).

Sighing, he turned away and went on with his business, looking for a job with one of the caravans to Jerusalem in the middle district of Beijing.

Having come from a rural farming family, and seeking a better life, Xin had begun to plan and plot. And step one was to acquire money. The caravans needed people to run them, and Xin planned to get his foot in the door any way he could. Yes, it was potentially dangerous, but a little risk was necessary if the man was to push onward.

Movements registered successfully. So you guys now, players traditionaly send a PM to submit orders (specially later on when any information is useful to attack other players).

@Gurra09: No problem. Feel free to drop back in whenever you want!

 

[Civleader]

Here are the missing screenshots of purchasing information.

Spoiler Beijing :

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Spoiler Shanghai :

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Action details will be updated soon to the rules.

 

[Tambien]

Public Speech

First, let me commend Shu Wei (Jehoshua) on his well-presented comments about the importance of societal harmony for our growing nation. What is any people without a sense of community, of belonging? Every man, woman, and child must know their place among our people, preventing conflict among us for petty position. Old stories tell of our people competing for the favor of the people and the Chieftain, vying for positions of power that those two agencies could award. Such is far from harmonious, far from peaceful, and only causes our people stress from attempting to take what they do not have.

My family knows its place. We are a family of warriors, one that has defended China and the Chinese since time immemorial. We trace our ancestry back to some of the earliest legends of great Chinese warriors, and it is this familial past and my familial place that informs what I say now.

First, while I agree with Shu Wei that a shrine may be helpful, the Chinese have never been a very spiritual people. We have our spirits yes, and pay them what is owed, but I believe it is far from a priority to study and examine their workings. We have a much more immediate threat: the hordes. They come, burn, pillage, and rape. They kill our wives, children, husbands, brothers, sisters, and other relations. When they came, we found ourselves unable to defend ourselves adequately. This is a situation that we may remedy. While a shrine may be constructed soon, I believe it important to begin the construction of a water mill as soon as possible. A watee mill would allow us to increase our production, making us able to more quickly and efficiently build such protective structures as walls and better equip new units of warriors. With a workshop, we make the first step towards improving our people's ability to fight off any future invasions. I beg the Lords of Beijing to look upon my suggestion and see its merit.

In terms of the social policy, I would echo Shu Wei's suggestion that we codify the offenses and crimes within China. Legalism, as I have heard some learned men speak of the idea, would allow the warrior class to more effectively enforce the rule of the Lords. As of now, we serve at the whim of whatever Lord commands us, and often this causes confusion when another Lord issues contradictory orders. I humbly ask that the Lords look upon this suggestion in order to promote the harmony of the Chinese state and the harmony within the warrior caste.

As for what our learned men should focus on discovering, the working of tin and copper into this stronger material, or bronze working, would again help us prepare for future barbarian invasion better than any knowledge of the stars yet would. Consider the applications of harder metals for weapons, even for tools.

I thank the Lords for their attention.

~Tan Qiang

 

[Patchy]

OOC: You do know we don't have the tech to build a workshop right?