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Governments and Politics

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Stories & Let's Plays' started by Civleader, Jun 30, 2011.

  1. Jehoshua

    Jehoshua Catholic

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    Public Speech:

    See people of Persia how the author of this error cannot even defend his own work from criticism and must spout off personal criticism at his opponents rather than arguing based on the contents of their argument!
     
  2. swimandciv

    swimandciv Warlord

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    Public Speech
    People of Persia, ignore his poor sentence fluency and focus on his meaning. He means to discredit a man who has done nothing but try to help the poor in the name of Persia and Mazda. When I see an attack on Mazda such as this philosophy, I respond by attempting to refute it. He now attempts to discredit my intelligence. Let me tell you that I know what is right and what is wrong, and this man's beliefs are wrong. He has taken a philosophical debate and attempted to have political gain from it. I will no longer listen to a man who clearly has no other goal than his own power. This book of his is clearly not an honest attempt at understanding the universe, but instead it is a power grab. Do not gratify him.
     
  3. Tambien

    Tambien Theseus, Duke of Athens

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    OOC: You can't use that against me IC swimmy! Obviously 11 o'clock is not the best time to be having an argument. Oh, and that was directed to Jehoshua not you swimmy.
     
  4. swimandciv

    swimandciv Warlord

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    ooc: You misspoke in character so I figured I could refer to it in character especially considering what appeared to be an attack on the intelligence of my character.
     
  5. Tambien

    Tambien Theseus, Duke of Athens

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    OOC: The only reason I was being so harsh is because some people on the Forums are not native English speakers, and I made the mistake of doing that to one of the awhile ago. Just point it out, dont use it againt them IC. :)
     
  6. christos200

    christos200 Never tell me the odds

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    ooc: Corrected. :p

    EDIT: I continue to remember that German Realpolitic.
     
  7. dot80

    dot80 Emperor

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    Just because there is no mention of faith, that is not say faith is logical or illogical. That point is up to interpretation. The Church is a pious institution and only seeks to convey the will of Mazda to the general public. Why would we condemn ourselves to an evil fate when the light of the creator is all around? How can that ever be considered logical? Apostasy will only bring the downfall of man kind, and therefore is not logical.

    Also, let us keep this discussion on the topic at hand, and not let it devolve to a personal mud fight. I highly respect all my peers and their opinions, and hope to prove to my colleagues the validity of this work.
     
  8. Tambien

    Tambien Theseus, Duke of Athens

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  9. swimandciv

    swimandciv Warlord

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    Logic can lead to evil. Following the teachings of the church cannot. People, do not follow this new corruptible creed and follow the light of Mazda.
     
  10. Tambien

    Tambien Theseus, Duke of Athens

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    Public Speech
    Yet Logic advocates the following of the teachings of the church. For to let the world slip into darkness and chaos is not logical in the slightest. Therefore, since Logic advocates the teachings of the Church, and you say logic is something to be ignored, while preaching the virtues of the very same church, you imply that you shouldn't follow the teachings of the Church. This is contrary to the teachings of both of us, and therefore that argument should be ignored.
     
  11. swimandciv

    swimandciv Warlord

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    Tambien believes he can hoodwink the great people of Persia by giving complicated logic to anything. Yet, by doing so he proves that logic can be bent to any purpose. One man can say it is logical to uphold the church; another man can say it is logical to overthrow our society. Anything can be logical. So what should a person do? The church's teachings are the only fountain of truth. Logic is not. By saying logic should guide all actions, Tambien is undermining the importance of the church and is threatening our way of life.
     
  12. swimandciv

    swimandciv Warlord

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    For the Prime Minister election, if no one else wants the post I will take it.
     
  13. dot80

    dot80 Emperor

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    I am going to run for Prime Minister aswell.
     
  14. swimandciv

    swimandciv Warlord

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    Well then I am definately running; I cannot allow a logician to win.

    Public Speech
    People of Persia, if you believe in radical change or logic as an end, then Doteiti is your man, but if you believe in the enlightenment of Mazda and maintaining the strength of our state then I am the only candidate for you. Persia is great; do not allow its ruin under the yoke of Doteiti.
     
  15. chgrogers

    chgrogers Prince

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    Questions to the Political candidates for the Office of Prime Minister.

    What are your plans for Helsinki? They are currently a puppet city in our empire. Do we want to allow them the autonomy or do you support annexing them?

    Relations with our neighbors.
    The Ottoman's have been our close neighbors and friends for a long time.
    Do you plan on fostering closer relations with them?

    In the past Rome has been a thorn in our side, closing their borders to trade. Eradicating the Mazdian religion from it plus many other events that have caused the tense relations we now share with them.

    Hanoi was once a major source of spices to the empire. They closed their borders during the start of the Helsinki War. What steps will you take to renew relations with them?

    The budget Crisis. We currently have a negative income causing our coffers to become empty. What measure will you take to refill them?

    Our citizens are unhappy. What are your plans to change this situation?
     
  16. dot80

    dot80 Emperor

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    It seems my request to keep debate civil is going to be ignored by my opponent. Also to clarify, I am not labeling myself as a 'logician.' My beliefs in how one should run their personal life has little to do with my political beliefs. Creating factions where there are none will only cause more infighting. Finally, I have never so much as commented on an issue, so your claim that I stand for 'radical change or logic as an end' is completely baseless slander, and your stance of 'enlightenment of Mazda and maintaining strength of our state' is laughably ambiguous. I am not sure how well Persia will fair if public officials are elected based on such empty rhetoric.

    I plan to assimilate Helsinki into the empire. It is close to our borders, and it has valuable enough land. In my view the lords there will need to ingratiate themselves to us to be allowed the privileges of a noble. I will also try to implement programs that will quicken the diversification of the city. This is to be done slowly though, the local population will only become more unhappy if we take the reigns of government immediately. We will need a courthouse there to show the people that the Persian government is a just one. Since the city does not poses the land needed to undertake such a project we will need to wait until we have the gold to afford the build cost.

    The only information I have about the Ottomans is what is told to the public. Though I don't know all the particulars, it seems our relations are satisfactory the way they are.

    Again this is dependent on the particulars of the situation, and information not shared with the public by the foreign minister. I advocate a friendly policy with Rome and cooperation to help lessen tensions, though if any deals were to be made I would require a public apology issued by the leaders, and assurance that nothing like that will happen again.

    I will encourage talks between our officials and those of Hanoi, and will do my best to help secure the spices again.

    I will help continue the policies of the king in regards to the markets. I also plan to redeploy the workers from Artaparsa to a city more in need of them. It baffles me why there are two units of workers near the city, when it is already one of the richest and most well developed in the empire.

    The Empire is large and maintaining happiness among such a diverse population is a hard task. I advocate the use of cheap government funded entertainment. The construction of a circus in Noctusan would be an easy fix, and at this point more valuable than an additional worker.

    Another topic, which you seem to have forgotten, is crime. I wish to redeploy the army to the rural countryside to help combat bandits, and I also will take a hard stance on gang violence in the cities. These vices on society cannot be allowed to continue. Everyday that a bandit steals from a defenseless farmer or another slave is brought into the empire, is a day that the government is failing to do it's duty to defend the defenseless.

    Finally, I will be making changes to the ministerial positions. Under my administration I will require reports (public or no) from each of the ministers, and what they are doing. Seemingly, the ministers feel their positions are honorable titles, not jobs, and I will not allow such a shirk in responsibility to continue. I also hope to consolidate some positions to help cut back on spending.

    I hope I answered your questions fully, and ably demonstrated my stance on critical issues. This is all subject to change because the Prime Minister only has so many powers delegated to him; if I am elected I will have to work through others to accomplish some of these goals, and realistically I might not be able to do everything I hope to do.
     
  17. swimandciv

    swimandciv Warlord

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    For Helsinki, I favor eventual full annexation with a courthouse into Persia. Unfortunately, at this time that does not seem possible for a variety of reasons including the happiness issue so until later we should leave them as a puppet. The question of who should rule Helsinki during that time is an intriguing one. The king has left the existing nobility in charge. As Prime Minister, I would ask an investigator, perhaps the famed newspaperman asking these questions, to inquire as to the popularity of that decision and whether the people of Helsinki want someone else to rule. I would favor whatever ruler would allow for easier assimilation.

    Our relationship with Turkey has been a great success of our government. I favor improving our relationship. It seems to me that we should attempt to be friendly towards the Ottomans until such point as we can fully integrate them into a growing Persian Empire. Until that time, they serve as an ally and buffer against Rome.

    Rome is currently our and the rest of the world's enemy. i like this status quo because it will make other empires more friendly towards us and we would together overwhelm Rome in a war. I do not favor war at the moment but would consider it should the need arise. If Rome wishes to reopen diplomatic relations, an apology for our dead missionaries and the allowance of new ones in would be a prerequisite to new negotiations.

    Your last three issues are related so I will deal with them together. The budget must be balanced, therefore I would ask Satraps to not just produce markets and mints, but also move their citizens to work land that would create more money. Also, I would consider using government funds to purchase a money making building in a city where the satrap has made an attempt to help the national situation(in the way I specified before). Once the budget is balanced, I would use funds generated to reaffirm our alliance with Hanoi. These spices would alleviate the unhappiness so our population can grow. That population will make happiness buildings and money. That money can be used for the courthouse in Helsinki. The happiness buildings would allow a higher population which allows for more growth. Under my plan, Persia would be on its way to longterm positive growth. In order to reach these goals, I have already given my support to the research plan proposed by Jehangir Artaparsi.
     
  18. swimandciv

    swimandciv Warlord

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    Doteiti's remarks are valid, but do not sufficiently address the various issues facing us. He has given no plan for foreign policy while admitting that he knows very little on the topic, despite the comprehensive book published by the Artaparsi on the subject. While Doteiti's economic plan is reasonable, he ignores the interconnectedness of the various issues we face. I plan on dealing with them together in one comprehensive plan while he favors quick fixes on everything that comes up. I do not mean to insult him personally, but only to debate the issues we face.
     
  19. dot80

    dot80 Emperor

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    I admit I am not learned on the issue of foreign policy, but that is not the job of Prime Minister, it is the job of foreign minister and the king. On the other hand, you seem to ignore the ever present crime plaguing the populace, and one of your own duties expressly written in the constitution, the ministers.
     
  20. swimandciv

    swimandciv Warlord

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    The Prime Minister should have a general understanding of everything the government does, and you had absolutely no understanding. I did not address crime because I was focused on giving adequate responses to the questions asked. My solution to crime would have three parts. First, the returning army from Helsinki should be used to increase enforcement. Second, I would coordinate a campaign against crime with the King and Minister of Law. Thirdly, the source of crime is poor economic situations. I have personally attempted to alleviate this problem head on with the Order of the Merciful Lord. Organizations like this and my economic plan combined should improve the economy and decrease crime. Hopefully these three actions will end this crime epidemic and get Persians back to work for Persia.
     

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