Governor choices

[Civsassin]

Is it normally better to have a couple of highly promoted governors or more governors with only a couple of promotions each? Moreover, what criteria would you use to choose the strategy if, as is usually the case, it’s situational? Consider a standard map at standard speed, and the Gathering Storm expansion.

 

[8housesofelixir]

The Governor titles you generally need in the majority of situations are: Pingala 3 (for science, culture, great people), Magus 2 (for chops and growth potential), Liang 1 (for extra build change), Amani 1 (for CS).

The rest depends on specific/particular situation. For instance if you have a great volcano nearby, Liang 3; if you are being rushed, Victor 1; etc.

 

[Siddharth Venkatesh]

I'm a bit confused about your conventions. You say Pingala 3 but that's 4 governor promotions right? And Liang 1 is just the opener?

Personally, my first 4 promotions are 3 into Pingala and 1 into Magnus. Pingala probably gets the first two because culture is just so important. I skip either the science or great people one on Pingala till later.I usually don't bother with more than 1 promotion for Magnus. Provision is not that useful in my experience, but sometimes, Black Marketeer is useful.

After that, I like getting the remaining one for Pingala, 1 in Liang, maybe 1 in Amani, and then getting either Reyna or Moksha, depending on how I will purchase my districts. In my game copy, Moksha's divine architect doesn't work and I've never figured out why, so I have to go Reyna.

Late game if I feel like it, I may also go Vertical Integration on Magnus (it's mediocre but fun sometimes) and one of Pingala's promotions for tourism or space.

If I'm going for war, I will need as many loyalty sticks as possible, and nothing really matters beyond that aside from Liang 1, Pingala 4, Magnus 1.

 

[8housesofelixir]

I'm a bit confused about your conventions. You say Pingala 3 but that's 4 governor promotions right? And Liang 1 is just the opener?

Yeah, my bad, I mean Pingala 4. All the 1s are just openers.

In my game copy, Moksha's divine architect doesn't work and I've never figured out why, so I have to go Reyna.

There is a bug on Faith purchasing recently. I think it's been patched by the Tech Shuffle update.

 

[CoconutTank]

It depends on what one is working towards as most folks have already mentioned. I think each gov has some circumstance which makes them an excellent first pick (well maybe not Moshka and Liang), but I've never really found a good reason to fully promote a gov or get all the govs, outside of getting era score and if I have spare gov titles anyway.

Examples from personal experience

You should get Ibrahim if you're playing as the Ottomans. Pasha (bonus production for military units), Head Falconer (your units in city get bonus combat), and Serasker (bonus combat for your units within 10 tiles attacking defensible districts) are all super great.

If I think war is somewhat imminent, or if I find that I have a city that's a little too close to other civs, I get Victor and Garrison Commander for bonus unit defense and loyalty asap. I don't usually fill out Victor, but will eventually get Defense Logistics (for bonus strategic resources) and Embrasure (for additional city ranged strike and free unit promo). I don't usually get Air Defense Initiative nor Arms Race Proponent.

If I think I can be greedy and stay on one city, I get Pingala and Connoisseur for culture in order to get Political Philosophy asap. I'll eventually get Researcher (for science) and Grants (for doubled Great People points), and if I'm doing a science victory I'll get Space Initiative.

If I think I can be greedy and expand a lot, I get Magnus and Provision and just chop out a ton of Settlers. I also find Surplus Logistics to be great for building up my empire with trade routes. I don't usually get any other titles in Magnus.

Moshka is great for getting a religion off the ground and maintaining it, but since gov titles come much earlier than getting a religion, it usually doesn't make sense to get Moshka first. The two titles I've found most useful from Moshka are Patron Saint (bonus promo for Apostles and Warrior Monks) and Divine Architect (faith buy districts). Both are blocked by Citadel of God, which is okay since it blocks pressure from opposing religions. The first title I usually get for Moshka is Laying on of Hands, which full heals any of your units in Moshka's city's territory, not just religious units.

 

[Buktu]

[...]I think each gov has some circumstance which makes them an excellent first pick (well maybe not Moshka and Liang)[...]

Moksha is quite a good early pick in SS mode if you play a civ with faith generation. You can just promote him up to divine architect fast and buy all the districts with faith.

 

[monikernemo]

Moksha is quite a good early pick in SS mode if you play a civ with faith generation. You can just promote him up to divine architect fast and buy all the districts with faith.

kinda disagree. Might be more cost efficient to faith buy builders and chop.

 

[CoconutTank]

Moksha is quite a good early pick in SS mode if you play a civ with faith generation. You can just promote him up to divine architect fast and buy all the districts with faith.

It is true that with Secret Societies on, it'd be possible to get Moshka with Divine Architect very quickly. However, I imagine your faith generation and choices for districts and district placement are very limited that early on. Also, that'd be your first 4 gov titles to get Divine Architect, which seems rather strenuous for an ability that'd be hard to make use of at the time.

 

[Siddharth Venkatesh]

There is a bug on Faith purchasing recently. I think it's been patched by the Tech Shuffle update.

Divine Architect hasn't ever worked for me. I'm not sure what causes it. Uninstalling and reinstalling hasn't fixed it either.

 

[Futumch]

It really depends on a lot of things. Is your empire compact or sprawling? Is Eleanor in play (do you need to shore up loyalty in far-flung cities)? Is there a ridiculously awesome Campus site in your empire?

If I have a large empire, which is what I usually shoot for, I'll try to have a good number of governors in play. Moshka and Victor are usually the last ones I'll place, depending if I'm going along the religious route or I'm being attacked. I'll move Liang around the coast to get Fisheries up and running, and I'll site Pingala on my highest science city and promote him accordingly.

That's one of the cool things about Civ, everything is situational, no two games are the same.

 

[Chekko]

Depends on loyalty and what you aim for. I usually focus on one or several of my cities being focused on something so I put the fitting governor there and promote them. If you have problems with the enemy surrounding you with cities you can go for many governors and aim on promoting Amani first.

 

[japanesesamurai]

They are all good choices. Even the bishop in the centre of your empire can be a great choice.
Lately I go with Liang and the 20% discount on districts as a first pick. Move her around and later in the game give her the fishery ability.

Pingala is obviously the most powerful governor (in GS) but he usually comes in a bit later depending on the situation.

the choice of your governor(s) obviously depends on the situation you’re in

 

[Fluphen Azine]

I'm not sure.
This is what I sort of know.

Many players say Ping First Always x3 or x4 for faster PP and Feudalism.
That makes sense to me.

Other players say Magnus x2 or even x3 immediately.
Something about chopping out horses and faster army to blitz.
Chopping in the Plaza and Settlers out.

Amani makes sense too as you can get faster era score and suzerain.
200 gold seems cheap to get 5 warriors for scouting/stealing missions.

 

[GeorgeF]

Lately I've been playing Pingala first it just turbo charges the early game sooo much to counteract the diety AI boost, get either culture or science depending on what you need, and GP points if you're shooting for an early prophet or scientist. Just don't get too dependent on him otherwise it really hurts if you have to move him.

 

[Palo]

Spending the first three slots on Pingala for Byzantium to get double great people works really well. 4 great prophet points a turn off just a bare holy site guarantees a religion even on diety and sometimes it's first or second so you can pick choral music or feed the world. If you've gone this path and get your choice I'd pick Feed the World because the extra food and housing will get you a massive city that will produce more culture from population than you might get from Choral Music anyways plus the extra population will be working tiles to add production or other yields and unlocking new district slots. You will easily trigger the inspiration for Civil Service which is otherwise hard to get without real work and lots of farming and/or jungle chopping.

 

[Buktu]

[...] If you've gone this path and get your choice I'd pick Feed the World because the extra food and housing will get you a massive city that will produce more culture from population than you might get from Choral Music anyways [...]

Strongly disagree with the culture part of your post. Feed the world gives you 6 food and 4 housing. 6 food feed 3 pops. Every citizen produces 0.3 culture per turn. So feed the world provides 0,9 culture per turn, 1,2 if you have enough food to fill the 4th housing. With Choral Music you get 2 culture already for the Shrine immediately without having to wait for the city to grow. This will grow to 6 culture per turn once you have the temple (which is already included in the culture number from feed the world). Again without having to wait for the city to grow from the extra food you get.
This leaves a 4,8 culture (equal to 16 citizens) per turn difference Feed the World and Choral Music while Choral Music also kicks in earlier. Since you want to attack with Tagmas asap you are better of with Choral Music as Byzantium imo.

Otherwise I agree, Pingala is a nice first pick since early culture is just so valuable (not just for Byzantium). His double GPs also pair nicely with the oracle if you can get it.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

I dunno...
You guys must play different settings or re-roll starts.
So many darn game modes and settings it seems impossible to compare a general strategy.
Many of my games have difficult land or boxed in with an aggressive neighbor or two.
I don't believe it is possible to get a Religion on every Deity Start (Depends on Settings).
I know for a fact, I would get rolled on many starts if I tinkered with Astrology First!
I have gotten rolled on many starts when I think I can just disregard the map and rush for a Great Prophet.
Always Fun to get Dowed or Double Dowed and Horse Barbed at the same time... Weeeee!!
I don't like that feeling of getting rolled so I just stick to Military First.
It makes my games longer but I don't have to worry about seeing that Defeat Screen.

 

[Palo]

The capital is going to have Pingala so that's 1.3 culture per turn per population. That +6 food means you will fill that four housing and hit your housing cap fast. I agree that outside the capital Choral Music provides more raw culture but it's nearly even in the capital. Four extra population means an extra district slot at least (+3 or +5 Theatre adjacent to Oracle and/or Hippodrome?) plus whatever production and other yields they're bringing in. The extra district slot could an encampment/stables for a great general to help the Tagma rush plus another housing.

Byzantium also has a lot of other stuff they want to set up so they may not have more than two total early holy sites. Feed the world though means big, fat non-capital cities even in poor terrain so they'll have size to build a holy site plus an extra district.

Just on culture alone it's closer than people think and the easy Civil Service inspiration helps even more. I feel the same way about work ethic. Unless you've got a pair of +5 or better early holy sites that can be doubled to +10 or more Feed the World is going to obliterate the production Work Ethic gives.

 

[Buktu]

The Byzantium debate is starting to get a little offtopic here so maybe a mod can move it to a Byzantium/beliefs thread?

Anyway I agree that culture is going to be equal in the long run in the pingala city. BUT CM kicks in earlier than FtW since you have to build the buildings both ways but FtW needs time to "generate" the population on top. And early culture is exactly what you want to Tagmas asap. And this also blocks another gov in this city so no Magnus chops without loosing alot of your culture from FtW at least for some turns.
Also TS won't have great adjecencies early since you want to finish those Hippodromes after you get Divine Right to get Tagmas for free instread of chariots and you will probably not get too much wonders early.
If I can get CM I prefer to get Holy Sites instead of TS if I'm not going for a CV since you can get both yields from HS and "save" a district slot this way. So with FtW you might be able to build some TS later on in addition and gain more overall culture BUT again this culture comes later (as already mentioned early adjacencies will be quite low) than the one from CM and therefore is delaying your Tagmas ever so slightly. The additional faith is quite useful to complete and defend your religion, buy GPs (e.g. a General) and Units (Grandmaster's chapell) and convert cities before you attack them (I know Byzantium spreads their religion with combat wins but these require units to kill, this will get harder and harder the later the game goes since cities become larger and larger and need more pressure to be converted) or holy cities to get another bonus from Taxis.

And yeah you get other yields from FtW. Which do you need though? The litte bit of science (from pops) is nice and production is never wrong. But Hippodromes are cheap and can be prebuild/chopped to get the free Tagma so production and science are not the bottlenecks of your Tagma rush. The production won't help you to get the religion obviously (since you need the religion to provide it). The prodcution can help you to get more culture later but why delay culture in the first place when it is all you need (after you get your religion) to get you going?

So don't get me wrong, FtW is a great belief and I really like it but imo CM fits Byzantiums needs so much better.

 

[Siddharth Venkatesh]

Feed the World can't really compete with the production Work Ethic gives. You may get the same amount of production eventually, but Work Ethic gives you the production on building the holy site. Feed the World requires you first build shrines and temples and then grow. That's slow. I'd take work ethic at a consistent +4 over Feed the World.

Also, if I'm going Choral music, my goal isn't just to build shrines and temples in my capital, and if you do build shrines and temples in other cities, the culture bonus from Feed the World isn't close to Choral Music.

For Byzantium specifically, Feed the World is probably fine, though I'd still rather go for Choral Music, since I want the culture faster than Feed the World provides.