gov't/production discussions

[rodimus6]

I like most of the gov't model, but things need to moved around a bit. I think feudelism should be in the middle of the ancient tree, monarchy like the last 1 or 2 techs available in the ancient era and republic shouldn't be allowed until early in the middle ages, mainly because the revenue improvement is really to high for that era and doesn't get any better the rest of the game(your republic has the same effieciency in the ancient era as the modern era, hmmm). This leads me to another point, in Master of Orion 2, you had 2 tiers of each type of gov't. The 2nd tier of each type offered some bonuses to the strengths of that type of gov't. This would make you gov't switching a bigger decision, because the 2nd tier bonuses don't start for 10 turns(some model like this).

I know Sid' probably doesn't want an entire revamp, but more than one tech tree has always seemed like a better idea. Most of the contruction/war games have more than one tech tree. Domestic, military, gov't, these could be broke down even more.

Under like Ancient era, domestic tech tree could have sections for agriculture and construction, more effiencient irrigation, don't make each square produce more food, that is gov't/economy based, but if you have 6 irragated squares that are being used, you get lets day 3 extra city food production for irrigation efficiency tech. The extra bonus could be further enhanced by gov't type, like Democracy or the 2nd tier Democracy would add 50% and 100% bonus to this. Of course you wouldn't have 2nd tier democracy in the ancient era, but you would have techs along the way that add to these totals.

This kind of design could allow for larger cities in smaller spaces. Of course this could be applied to ocean production, bonuses to food for a fish cannery(Built in coastel cities only).

A future tech tree with some future fighting robots, aka giant Mech wars should be put in, and a future Tech to completely eliminate pollution(the most annoying part of the game, except for nuclear weapons((Bring back 100% SDI, duh)), of course).

I know if you start stacking all these kind of bonuses on top of each other, you could build some really large cities and have tremendous production (isn't this the whole point of the game, except of course to wipe out, you best friend's civ or that mongol dude, is he weird looking or what, hehe).

I don't like the slaves thing either, making worker units from captured cities is not really accurate, in the ancient era yeah, but the unit should build 1 improvement and then die. No workers from captured cities after ancient era.

 

[Masquerouge]

Originally posted by rodimus6
Most of the contruction/war games have more than one tech tree. Domestic, military, gov't, these could be broke down even more.Under like Ancient era, domestic tech tree could have sections for agriculture and construction, more effiencient irrigation, don't make each square produce more food, that is gov't/economy based, but if you have 6 irragated squares that are being used, you get lets day 3 extra city food production for irrigation efficiency tech. The extra bonus could be further enhanced by gov't type, like Democracy or the 2nd tier Democracy would add 50% and 100% bonus to this. Of course you wouldn't have 2nd tier democracy in the ancient era, but you would have techs along the way that add to these totals.
This kind of design could allow for larger cities in smaller spaces. Of course this could be applied to ocean production, bonuses to food for a fish cannery(Built in coastel cities only).
A future tech tree with some future fighting robots, aka giant Mech wars should be put in, and a future Tech to completely eliminate pollution(the most annoying part of the game, except for nuclear weapons((Bring back 100% SDI, duh)), of course).

Basically, you want to play Call To Power 2.

 

[rodimus6]

I didn't play that one. Does is have a scenario maker?

Why couldn't those ideas be added to a game like Civ3? I think Civ3 could have a few more facets to it and the gov't piece of civ3 could use a little work and expansion. You didn't comment the moving of the gov't techs to later on and why the gov't production/penalties are the same no matter the era. I think this is a very inaccurate point in Civ.

Has anyone noticed that AI players always seems start a war when the computer thinks it has an advantage? This seems to be the norm on most any computer game. Don't AI designers think that the human player would be better prepared, especially later in the game. I always have about 40 tanks and 40 mech inf waiting to fill in gaps and wipe out anything that punches thru a line. not to mention stealth bombers. I saw on a conquest post that the AI keeps a heck of alot more units to make things much harder, good. Blowing up 3 units and taking over a 12 size city is to easy, when you can easily move 20 units there.

Has anyone heard anything about master of magic 2 game, (off topic, but just in case, thx).

 

[Enkidu Warrior]

I think nuclear weapons are mostly fine. The appear so late in the game and require so much investment that I'd be pretty sore if they didn't confer such a major advantage. The penalties for their use are also fairly major. 100% SDI would make them a waste of time. What I would like to see is a greater deterrent associated with using nuclear weapons. I think we need some sort of genuine mutually assured destruction - I know that the AI is less likely to go to war with you if you have significant nuclear forces, but it's not quite good enough. I'd like to see the AI practically begging me not to nuke them, as well as the automatic launch of missiles if I nuke another nuclear power. It would also be nice if we had a more involved UN, kind of like in Alpha Centauri. There could be the option to sign a non-proliferation pact that required every civ to declare war if someone even started to build a nuclear weapon. There could also be arms reduction treaties that forces civs to scrap their nukes or face a united world invasion.

I was also expecting a more expanded tech tree that went a bit further into the future, but I can understand why this was not included. It would seem a bit out of place in a mostly historically accurate game.

Feudalism should definately appear earlier since it seems designed for very small civs. I think the only reason it appears where it does is because the old Feudalism tech happened to be in the middle ages.

Slaves are a great addition, and they are very historically accurate. I think Democracy should force you to free them though.

 

[Vietcong]

i agre about the un, and as fot the tech tree. to me its just fine, what needs to be done about the goverments is add a few more.

1. fundamentalism
2.orgliarchy
3.difrent froms of monarchy, abaslut, constatuinal, imperal(imperal being the monarchys of ancent rome,persia, ect)
4. u shold have a coiche of what u whant to start with as a gove out of orliarchy( a city state syetesm, wich all of the fist civs used, or a more of a tribal despotism, like with a chief, like the zulu had)

as for un
i hate when all nations (some) dow u for useing nuclear wepions, its so unrealistck, that needs to be changed, and give u a decent hit insted.

once the un is constroted, if an agresor nation atacks another, ther shold be a vote among other nutral nations to be come involved, if a majority is passed, the nations that wish to defend the one atacked can dow with out any decent (for a pirod of time if in democracy, or in rebuplic) and no other civs will be angered at u for dowing on the agresor nation.

ther shold allso be goverment alliences, if one civ has a communist gov, it shold be frendlyer to othet comunist civs, and thay shold stick together, make deals more offen, give thing to etother cheaper, and have more likly hood of makeing mutral protetion packs or allainces