1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

GP FARM in BTS

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Kelvenor, Oct 17, 2007.

  1. Kelvenor

    Kelvenor Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 3, 2006
    Messages:
    91
    Location:
    New Brunswick, Canada
    Hey guys,

    I always seem to have these 2 problems, every time I start a game, I never seem to establish a GP Farm City, my Capitals his always busy with wonder/unit production and I cottages spawn it’s surrounding. Since I usually go for Great Library, my GP are Scientists (academy in 2 most sciences city) and I always struggle to bulb tech or to include as super scientist? Capital produce 90% of my GP while Tech research I get the free ones on occasion. My second problem is using them.

    Now with BTS, you need those frigging GP!! to found Corporations. How to you manage it? I got a GM with Economics should I just hand on to him utile I can found Sushi?

    I think my big problem is when to you chose your GPF do you conquer it, settle it or just plain ignore it and hope for the best after a few war and build National Epic + Pacifism in most favourable (which tend to be my capital)

    My second and 3rd cities are usually resource grab (copper/food & future luxuries) with a tendency to cottages away green land in 2nd (Super Science City) and my 3rd city is usually for military production. Now by the time I get a 4th settler….no juicy land neither with lots of green pastures/flood plain to farm nor are any food resources available for the GP. So my 4th cities is usually a production oriented…I wait until cats for war.

    In vanilla I had a lot of success with coastal GP Farm sea/land resources. But I don’t know if I have bad luck I never get those anymore.


    I Play Standard map/Continents (this just seems natural)
    Marathon, BTS 3.13
    Monarch/Emperor/ with all available victories
     
  2. eewallace

    eewallace King

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2005
    Messages:
    797
    Location:
    USA
    You will definitely need to prioritize food over cottages in order to have good GP farm cities. Just a few specialists can swing the balance for what kind of GP you are likely to get. FWIW, I don't usually try to make my capitol a GP farm, because like you note, you really need to prioritize economy and production there quite often. Coastal cities with good food resources work well. A really great leader for starting a GP economy is Elizabeth--philosophical for increased GP, and financial so your need to build tons of cottages is reduced.
     
  3. MrWhereItsAt

    MrWhereItsAt Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Messages:
    233
    Location:
    Wellington, New Zealand

    You run out of good space with 3 cities? Sounds like you've had some hard luck being boxed in early there! Isn't there some jungle you could clear in the mid-game to make an all- or almost-all farmed grassland GP, er, farm?

    And with BtS in the later game it's all the easier to get a GP farm going, as long as you remember it early enough. The National Park grants you a free specialist for every forest/jungle tile in the city radius that has been preserved, so you can easily get a 5 or 6 specialist city going before even considering the food level, and with a bit of an effort you can get 10 or more free specialists - just don't clearcut ALL the trees you see everywhere.
     
  4. MrFrodo

    MrFrodo Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2002
    Messages:
    167
    Duplicated via forum weirdness...
     
  5. MrFrodo

    MrFrodo Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2002
    Messages:
    167
    I have the same problem. I have yet to really figure out how to make the traditional GP farm, at least until later in the game. I seem to either end up having my capital be my GP farm by virtue of it being an awesome producer, having produced so many wonders, me not having any other city that I have that many specialists in, and National Epic being available to use on it.

    The other thing that seems to happen a lot for me is that the first capital I conquer has awesome food resources and many forests (e.g. 12+). So I use it as a GP farm, but it isn't a traditional one, it is a late blooming National Park+National Epic GP farm that has mostly Free Specialists from Forest Preserves. That kind of city is super powerful in my opinion. Once you make the effort to get it online it can serve many purposes including an awesome GP farm.

    In my current game, my capital in on a peninsula and has 3 fish, 2 clams and a corn in its fat cross. I was really excitied to play this game, but it is actually not easy at all because it is such a poor producer. My plan is to have it be my settler/worker farm early with lots of whipping, then be my specialist filled GP farm later. But I need another city to take up the production, and I have crap around me so far....
     
  6. SpiderMinky

    SpiderMinky Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    In my own Mind
    One thing that I have been toying with in my lst two games is the national park capital. If you happen to get on of those capital starts that has mostly forests and a few food resources around it I have found that it can be excelent to just use it as a wonder pump, keep theo forests though don't chop them out, and then later make it your National park city you get lots of good gpp's form the wonders you have build there and then you get the specialist later.

    It is not obtainable all the time as it does depend on what you get for the capital and if there is enough food there to get the city nice an productive but the bonus is that you will have other improovments like universites etc there to allow you to pick and choose what specialists you want to run for your free specialists from the national park, unlike a lategame city that may still be building some of those which may or maynot beable to runt eh specialist type you want.
    This has the added benefit in that it will produce them more quickly in the late game since it has the wonders and specialsts just more gpp's all around.

    It seems to have worked so far for me. It may not in all cases though.
     
  7. MrFrodo

    MrFrodo Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2002
    Messages:
    167
    I have considered doing this a few times too, but then early growth can be super slow without any chopping. I usually can't wait on it, but if you do I can see it being pretty ubar.
     
  8. DrewTate

    DrewTate Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2005
    Messages:
    596
    so to get a gp farm i click on the add ___ (Priest, artist, merchant, citizen, or scientist) on the right of the city screen? I still have to feed him right?

    And then settle my Gp there to get even more?
     
  9. SpiderMinky

    SpiderMinky Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    In my own Mind
    Yeah the early growth is the key, so often it can be hard to pull off, it is easiest when there is just enough productin there to get your settlers out quickly and preferably get some good wonder resources under your control.
    IE stone or marble because that makes the wonders easer to obtain. and once you have a couple other cities you can then have them focus on the rest of the building you need to do. Military science expansion etc. and the captial just builds wonders and buildings.

    it is not a strategy that fis in every captial by any strech but when you can :goodjob:
     
  10. Eshnunna

    Eshnunna Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2005
    Messages:
    143
    Location:
    Paris
    Yeah, that's the basics, do that in a high food spot.
    And you build national epic in it ASAP

    Do NOT add citizens : they don't give GP points and only produce 1 hammers! if no extra specialists slots are available (no more buildings) you can whip them, or use caste system.
    The only time they're worth using is on a totally hammer depleted city (few tiles island w/ seafood)

    Errr... nope settled GP do NOT produce GP points. Settling them here would be a waste, since this city will not usually be your main research/gold/espionnage city.

    In some cases added food from Great merchants can be useful, or added production from GE. But you won't have many multipliers on prod, nor hammers themselves in a city that doesn't work anything but food tiles.

    Overall still a waste, great ppl have many better uses
     
  11. Tusk

    Tusk Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2007
    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    South Africa, God's own country
    What would actually make a more effective GP Farm eg. on an all grassland/forested city? Chop the trees and build farms, going for food? Or leaving the forests and waiting for National Park? I'm thinking the latter, since it will take care of both happiness and health problems while going the high-food route and combining National Epic with Glod theatre would sort out unhappiness but still leave you with health problems for high pop.
     
  12. KMadCandy

    KMadCandy giggling permanoob

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2005
    Messages:
    3,993
    Location:
    Peepsville
    i am notoriously indecisive about where to put my national wonders, so i usually don't build NEpic until centuries after i should have. i get to a late start. recently i've been building it in a forest-y place and saving the 2nd slot for NPark, since i want medicine early anyway for sid's sushi.

    doing that, i haven't yet needed globe in that city. every forest preserve in a city's fat cross gives +1 :). every city, so you don't need to build NPark first for that to kick in, and it's true under every civic, not like the :) forest/jungle happiness from environmentalism pre-BtS. so as long as you can keep your designated NPark city happy enough until SciM + bunch of worker turns invested preserving forests, you'll probably be okay.
     
  13. Bino

    Bino Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2007
    Messages:
    157
    Location:
    Bologna, Italy
    I feel that an hall forest with a couple of food resources or fish would be the best...problem is at higher levels the slow start if you dont chop.
     
  14. jackdog

    jackdog Warlord

    Joined:
    May 15, 2007
    Messages:
    256
    Yup getting an early GP fram up is tough and there are some compromises. Generally IMO the capital isn't great as due to multiple wonders what GP you get is out of control, though it will still produce some. If you make your third city your planned GP farm and be sure to have loads grass in its cross, wether forested or not, probably chop forests to be able to build some stuff such as libraries unis etc as its unlikely to have much production, then only use scientist specialists and use loads as you have so much food. Its a pain as early on its a poor producer of units and GP but later you have some regular guarenteed great scientists for the liberalism race path etc. Much later it will come into its own as a great GP farm outstripping your capital by some way, but you have to make the sacrafice early on to get the most out of this for the mid and late game.

    I stuck to this in my last game and it payed off very well, its now running 10ish specialists but have lost the guranteed scientist as no longer can afford to run caste system. Still an ace GP farm though.
     
  15. Roxlimn

    Roxlimn Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Messages:
    3,526
    GP Farm making consists of two things:

    1. Making Wonders
    2. Running Specialists.

    Due to the additions Wonders have on GPPs, having your GPPs loop back into your Wonder production can have a powerful snowball effect, just as obsolete has demonstrated. Nevertheless, Specialists are also a strong part of where those GPPs come from.

    An ideal GP farm is a site with multiple floodplains and food resources for over-the-top food production and about 3 or 4 hills for Wonder production. Early in its life, the GP Farm will concentrate on building Wonders to boost its GPP accumulation from Wonders. You can be selective about the Wonders you put in your primary and secondary GP farm so as to get the GP you like.

    As you create Libraries and Temples and Monasteries, you can eventually shift or supplement GPP creation with Specialists. Recall that SE is very population intensive. You will probably not need that many tiles improved, but you'll need to have lots of happy faces and health bonuses. Since the tile footprint of the ideal GPP is small, you can actually spare about 5 or so tiles within it for Forests. Don't chop the Forests. Leave the Wonder-rushing to your primary Production or Capital city. Once the National Park comes online, boost Specialist content.
     
  16. MrFrodo

    MrFrodo Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2002
    Messages:
    167
    If you can wait for National Park it is definitely more powerful. But there is the tradeoff that it comes late in the game. Your GP farm might be rather "meh" until National Park comes online, but twice now I've manage to wait with 15 tiles of Forest in the fat cross of that city (you need the city to have several food resources and maybe a production resource in the other 5 tiles). Once it is live, you have a city with good production, no health or happiness problems, excellent GP production rate (I could get over 200 GPP if I wanted to), near full control of the GP you get if you don't have any other wonders there(with caste system), and incredible flexibilty to focus on whatever your economy/game plan currently needs.

    The first time I did it, it immediately stabilized my economy/techs by focusing on Merchants. Then once I had popped a couple Great Merchants, I switched to Scientists for making a beeline to Radio. I wanted to go Cultural victory and needed Eifel Tower before I popped the 100% culture switch. Then once the culture switch has thrown, I focused on Artists and it quickly caught up and surpassed my capital in culture and provided a awesome great artist farm to help keep the 3 culture cities even. I didn't even have Sistine Chapel, which would have made it ridiculous. It really is pretty god-like if you can get enough forests in there.
     
  17. lulu135

    lulu135 Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Messages:
    135
    It's a good idea to chop a few forests so you don't lose wonder races, just make sure you keep enough to grow back, and don't put anything else on the plots. Once you start building preserves they tend grow back pretty quickly.
    Also, try to chop forests with multiple adjacent forest squares, this makes them grow back faster. Chopping the one in the middle of a 5 forest cross is ideal.
     
  18. Xenocrates

    Xenocrates Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    Messages:
    2,378
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Is anyone else seeing the national park as a curse?

    Don't get me wrong it's damn good, but when you see a good spot for it it twists your strategy. I tend to focus that city on wonders so that when the NP is available it'll be better. Unfortunately no chopping=painful wonder building = less other city improvements. No clearing of forest = slower population growth = less whipping. So I end up missing out on expansion, military, wonders and early GPP's.

    How about you fellas?
     
  19. Tusk

    Tusk Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2007
    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    South Africa, God's own country
    @Xenocrates: That's EXACTLY what I'm wondering. I have no doubt that National Park outweighs any other nat. wonders in your GP farm (with the obvious exception of nat. epic)...but is it really that good that it outweighs the disadvantage of getting it that much later? Over the course of a whole game, which method would produce the greatest TOTAL number of Great people? Surely that's the most effective. If the food method just pips the forest method in total, even though the forest method is better at the end, then surely the food method is the best.

    I think this question can only be solved by working out the absolute maximum no. of specialists a food-based GP farm can support, and how many a forest/national park city can support, and guesstimating the total number of GP points produced throughout the course of an entire game...
     
  20. lulu135

    lulu135 Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Messages:
    135
    I like to use my capital as combined production/GP farm and my 2nd and 3rd city as big commerce generators. I try and get a settler out quickly so my capital can start focusing on wonder production while city #2 starts building the rest og my empire. Then I build Ironworks and Natl Epic in capitol. In addition to the production boost, the Ironworks lets you create 3 more engineer specialists, for a total of 9 in the late game. Then I can use the great engineers to build more wonders, and when I have no wonders to build it's also a great military production city.

    My favorite leader for this strategy is Ramses. Industrial for the increased wonder production, and cheap forges in all my other cities, and spiritual so I can quickly switch to bureaucracy when I'm building wonders, and nationalism the rest of the time.
     

Share This Page