GP FARM in BTS

@Xenocrates: That's EXACTLY what I'm wondering. I have no doubt that National Park outweighs any other nat. wonders in your GP farm (with the obvious exception of nat. epic)...but is it really that good that it outweighs the disadvantage of getting it that much later? Over the course of a whole game, which method would produce the greatest TOTAL number of Great people? Surely that's the most effective. If the food method just pips the forest method in total, even though the forest method is better at the end, then surely the food method is the best.

I think this question can only be solved by working out the absolute maximum no. of specialists a food-based GP farm can support, and how many a forest/national park city can support, and guesstimating the total number of GP points produced throughout the course of an entire game...


I think it really depeds on the lay of the land and what your stategy is more than anything. Saving forests around your capital is only going to work in very specific situations where you a) have the forests, b) have the time to not chop them, c) have enough food resources to live without what beneath the forest canpoy. So that is super rare, and might be impossible at higher levels I would guess.

What I find a lot is my closest neighbor has a high forest capital, and not being as aggresive about getting Bronze Working as I am, when I capture it with an early rush, all the food resources are worked, but very few trees are chopped. That makes an ideal candidate, since you don't have to worry as much about growth at that point, the city will be an OK producer with the forests, and, if the food resources are good enough, you can use specialists there and its an OK early GP farm as well. In this case, I would guess this kind of city makes the most GP, since early it can be a specialist based GP farm (and might have a wonder or two as well), and late its an ubar NP/NE mega-eco-city. In this case, I would guess your GP production is maximized. But I'm still a bit of a newb, I just happen to have run into this a bunch. I've read people believe two GP farms is optimal now.

But, if you get a really productive Capital and can wonderspam, making NE in it right away might be better in the long run. Or if you find a really ideal GP farm candidate, or if you just don't have any good options for a NP/NE farm. I bet the majority of games are like this.

What I did notice with the couple of really ubar NP/NE cities I've had is the initial GP rate is insanely high. In the middle stages I'm trying to grow the population of that city to 20, in order to cover all the forest preserves, so I'm not using specialists there and my GP rate goes down. Once I hit NP, my rate goes way up to the 200 GPP range suddenly and a bunch of GP pop out very quickly. I timed it with a Golden Age once and it was just amazing. This can make a really awesome timing synergy with Cultural Victories. Because most of the game I am not worrying too much about culture, just preparing with spreading religions, temples, cathedrals, specific wonders, making a strong defensive military, etc. My focus is really teching to Radio which is where I like to flip the switch and do 100% culture, and all specialists focus on artist. If you time it right with the NP coming online you immediately get a large number of great artists to help your push to 3 legendary cities. Can you imagine all the Hippy Poets and Artists hanging out in the Forest Preserves making great works of art and dancing around naked?
 
Is anyone else seeing the national park as a curse?

Don't get me wrong it's damn good, but when you see a good spot for it it twists your strategy. I tend to focus that city on wonders so that when the NP is available it'll be better. Unfortunately no chopping=painful wonder building = less other city improvements. No clearing of forest = slower population growth = less whipping. So I end up missing out on expansion, military, wonders and early GPP's.

How about you fellas?

This is why what you really want to pull of the NP strategy is a good coastal city with a lot of seafood surounded by a lot of hills with forests all over them.
This is why I like to place it in the capital.
You from what I have seen a failry good chance at getting this for a start position. At least I always seem to.
My current game has 2 clams 1 fish and Corn but there are still a total of 12,13 (cannot remember for sure which) other times that are forested with a couple of forested hills. These provide the hammers to get you going on wonders without needing to chop all the time.
It still has an element of risk to it. (any wonder building does right :) do I get it or not.
But the high food tiles getyour pop up and let you at least whip a cople pop points to finish the wonders a couple turns sooner than normal..

It is by no means a no brainer for a strategy but so far I like it.

Because you have high food and at least decent production. you get the wonders for the early gpp and the park to finish it out.
 
In my last game my capital had four dear so I had a LOT of food from a few tiles and later I could turn those forest tiles into preserves for free specialists. Also it was on a coast but also near a fresh water lake, so the lake was 3 food a tile with a lighthouse.
 
Now with BTS, you need those frigging GP!! to found Corporations. How to you manage it? I got a GM with Economics should I just hand on to him utile I can found Sushi?

I get a Great Merchant by picking a high food city, usually with farms, and build (or pop rush) a marketplace and grocer in it. Colossus, too, if coastal. Run 2 to 4 merchants at all times. Be careful to not allow the computer to assign other types of GP. You probably won't get a GP from this city very soon, but you are saving GM points. When I discover biology, then I start my first golden age. Switch to caste system on turn 1 and run as many merchants in this city as possible. A golden age also doubles GP points! You should get a Great Merchant soon after you discover medicine. Don't forget to switch out of caste system before the golden age ends.
 
I think in BTS you should have at least two or three GP farms... With the additions of Sid's Sushi and the National Park, it really makes no sense to me to stick with only one GP farm.
 
I think in BTS you should have at least two or three GP farms... With the additions of Sid's Sushi and the National Park, it really makes no sense to me to stick with only one GP farm.


Indeed . One GP farm usually doesn't cut it . But making one of my production cities ( i.e. city that puts out . .. .. .. . load of hammers) a secondary GP farm seems to work too . I don't neccessarly have to put many specialists in that secondary ( or third string) city since I can construct wonders there more quickly and many of them add to the GP growth anyways . Still , doesn't hurt to have a couple specialists there .

And the specialists I usually assign in those production cities are mostly Gr.Engineers since the buildings are there to make them specialists . Pumping out a GE at a decent rate is pretty nice but I try to plan ahead on which wonders I want them to rush .
 
@Xenocrates: That's EXACTLY what I'm wondering. I have no doubt that National Park outweighs any other nat. wonders in your GP farm (with the obvious exception of nat. epic)...but is it really that good that it outweighs the disadvantage of getting it that much later? Over the course of a whole game, which method would produce the greatest TOTAL number of Great people? Surely that's the most effective. If the food method just pips the forest method in total, even though the forest method is better at the end, then surely the food method is the best.

I think this question can only be solved by working out the absolute maximum no. of specialists a food-based GP farm can support, and how many a forest/national park city can support, and guesstimating the total number of GP points produced throughout the course of an entire game...

I think that the best strategy is to have more than one GP farm.

I find that in the very early game, my capitol generates a few GP due to wonders as has been mentioned earlier. While the choice of the type is less controlable, all GP can be useful in the early game, so it doesn't matter much.

About my 3rd or 4th city is usually a more planned GP farm. I try to have at least three food resources, primarliy sea food if possible, in this city for the benefits that you mentioned.

In the late game, I find that it is best to have my GP farm with both the national forest and the national epic with mostly preserved forests in the city cross. If I can find a city with mostly grassland forest tiles and a couple of food resources it will be the prime candidate. In addition to the free specialists that the national forest gives, the heppy and healthy benefits help the city to grow very large supplying even more specialists.

I have never kept track of the total number of GP, but late into the game I am still cranking them out on a regular basis.
 
how do libraries and temples and unis help Great people points

You need libraries to have scientist specialists and temples for priests and the specialists help the GP points.
 
how do libraries and temples and unis help Great people points

Yes , libraries and temples give you the ability to appoint those valuable specialists . Besides that libraries give you a decent bonus to beaker production very early in the game . They also give you some culture .
 
Usually my GP Farm is a captured enemy capital, typically they have heaps of food and some production for the buildings and wonders.

But this thread's timing is sheer gold - in my current game I messed around and didn't bother with a food-based GP farm, instead I have a wonderspammed capital with NEpic and about 10 forests left still, and I had no idea about the NPark potential until this thread popped up... sounds brilliant! I'm gonna try it.
 
Thanks Mexis;

I just finish a space victory and indeed Charlemagne capital, my science City plus my Capital were all GP Farm Marchant/Scientist/Scientist

And for earler GP...Im trying an SE for the first time....No good result so far
 
If your going to play for GPs, you might as well start in the industrial era. Before that, you can generate 2-4 and assuming that one goes toward an academy in your bureaucracy capital and one goes to a golden age (your third), that leaves 2. One for education, and one (engineer if you ran an engineer alone after your first forge) for?

Anyway, 4 GPs is as agood as you can do until industrial thanks to 700 years of alphabet added to philosophy/caste system.

No more cavs in 1000ad (now, i dunno), no more astro in 400ad (now, 700ad), no more lib in 125bc (now, 800ad). The best (scientist) GP strat has been nerfed to broke.
 
If your going to play for GPs, you might as well start in the industrial era. Before that, you can generate 2-4 and assuming that one goes toward an academy in your bureaucracy capital and one goes to a golden age (your third), that leaves 2. One for education, and one (engineer if you ran an engineer alone after your first forge) for?

Anyway, 4 GPs is as agood as you can do until industrial thanks to 700 years of alphabet added to philosophy/caste system.

No more cavs in 1000ad (now, i dunno), no more astro in 400ad (now, 700ad), no more lib in 125bc (now, 800ad). The best (scientist) GP strat has been nerfed to broke.

Are you kidding me? You seriously think the most GP you can get before the Industrial Era is 4?
 
And build an invading army to conquer 1-2 civs? Let me know when u get your 5th with one civ conquested. I'm guessing 1400s+. How about without a philo leader?
 
Perhaps I was assuming some parameters.

Quick speed, no tech_trading, no barbs, no tribal villages, no random (partisans break game / ruin MP agression), preferably an isolated island start.

Post a save with 5 GP (explain where they went) and 1 civ either vassal or out of game.

It is difficult to discuss strat with the wide range of options.

I play SP to prep strat in MP. Obviously, noble+ wins under the above options are exceedingly easy. Against players is different. Nonetheless, if you can take an AI civ, chances are that a player would have less defense. People have 1 warrior 10 population capitals in 1000ad, the AI does not.

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And/or, if you would, explain how you get alot of GPs and include the turn/year they arrive. Thanks in advance. Until Sushi Corp, I cannot generate an appreciable amount of GPs, and at that point, they give me 2-4 turns of research for lightbulb. GA ftw.

Perhaps a 1st scientist GA in a 2 scientist specialist cap could get 2 more pretty quick.
 
I usually do nat. epic with oxford university at my science city, better if I can also get great library there. I build ironworks and nat. park at my production city, a city with lots of forests naturally. this makes a great gr engineer factory ! finally I build wall street at the city my shrine. so I usually try to kep these three seperated (eg, try not to build the gr library in a shrine city)
 
I reckon it's a waste to cripple a good city until Biology just to give it National Park. The free specialists don't care how good the city is, as long as there's forest. I find it's best to build in some crappy tundra-forest city (you know, the sort you found just to grab a seafood resource and some coastal trade and commerce), where clearing the forest wouldn't help, and where the city has bugger-all potential before Biology anyway. It's then a great city to stick factory/forge/industrial park in and run engo specialists for a Mining Inc GP, or to stick espionage buildings in and run as an espionage centre (specialists are by far the best way to run espionage anyway).
It's likewise a waste of National Epic to wait until National Park a couple of eras later.
I wouldn't ever even begin to contemplate putting it in my capital; those forests are worth waaaaaay too many early workers, settlers and axemen when it's most crucial.

Merchants are easy enough; a specialised money city (to pay for a higher science rate) with a bunch of merchant specialists is bound to generate a couple, and it's just a matter of having the discipline to save one.
 
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