GP Farming with Pacifism

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Artichoker, Apr 22, 2009.

  1. Artichoker

    Artichoker Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    1,711
    Recently, I've been looking into the possibilities of using Pacifism with a Philosophical leader, and I've often wondered whether Pacifism is stronger or weaker with this trait.

    In order to find out, I decided to try out myself. I used my current series game (Leveraging Vassalage VII, game 2) as a study, and I realized that the best way to maximize Pacifism is to set a timetable for every city that is to generate a Great Person.

    The case study involved no Marble or Stone, and enough food in every city to run 2 scientists. I have made some progress in this study, and I will continue to post my findings here.

    As a starter, let's assume that we want to focus on GP farming during the span of 40 turns. With 2 scientists per city, our food reserves are sustainable for most cities, and for now let's assume that this is our base source of GP points.

    The next thing to realize is that apart from building S.Paya, we will need Philosophy in order to run Pacifism. This is typically (and most efficiently) done by bulbing Philosophy. Therefore, a Great Scientist needs to be spent to bulb Philosophy. With Philosophical, it's easier to get a Great Scientist, but on the other hand you still need the prerequisites for Philosophy. Because of these two points, I'll assume that with Philosophical, an extra Great Scientist is used to settle or build an Academy.

    This typically means that for non-Philosophical, the Philosophy bulb comes on the 2nd Great Scientist, whereas for Philosophical, it comes on the 3rd. Once this bulb is completed, the Pacifism phase can then be begun. My initial estimates for typical map conditions suggest the following:

    a Philosophical leader will generate Great People with the following costs:
    400
    500
    600
    700
    800

    a non-Philosophical leader will generate Great People with the following costs:
    300
    400
    500

    However, there's a catch: using a Great Person (either a free Great Artist from Music, or a Great Scientist generated normally) to trigger a golden age can allow for additional great people to be generated. During the golden age, a switch to Caste System can be made to allow for more scientists to be run. In addition, the golden age itself provides a +100% bonus to GPP.

    I'll post more findings as they come along...
     
  2. Yeosol

    Yeosol monarch

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2007
    Messages:
    120
    The % bonus from Phil will be less overall with pacifism. However I like Pacifism because it stops the NE city from hogging all the GP. With Phil as well that's 200% in every city and 300% in the NE City. Meaning the others can compete and will be able to put out more GP. (With GAge it's 300%/400%, SICK!)
     
  3. Artichoker

    Artichoker Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    1,711
    I agree about the effect Pacifism has of spreading out GP generation among different cities.

    Actually, I think Pacifism is strong enough to justify delaying the National Epic, epecially if there is no Marble available. Without Marble, that's a pretty big chunk of hammers that needs to be invested in order to collect the bonus. Of course, it will depend on the availability of base GPP (such as many wonders or high population).

    To begin, I have provided an example that doesn't consider the effects of National Epic. First observation shows that with equal GPP generation in all your GP Farms, it's more practical to use a whole bunch of GP Farms that will each eventualy generate at least 1 GP.

    The next task is to find a way to time the Golden Age so that the synergy with Caste System and the +100% bonus of the Golden Age is maximized. The goal is to time the Golden Age in such a way that the combination of Caste System, Pacifism, and the Golden Age itself will be enough to push the average city over the edge to generate its target GP.
     
  4. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    26,046
    I will skip literature for quite some time on occasion if I lack marble and it looks like I can make use of pacifism (aka have religion, can run it w/o getting wrecked). NE is a non-trivial hammer investment in a city that will be hammer poor unless it quits on GPP production for a bit (or spammed wonders), and one frequently is picking between lit and either CoL or Civil Service...and CoL is a philo bulb pre-req that ALSO unlocks caste and civil service ----> having these sooner rather than later is not insignificant, especially if CoL can be traded.

    Maybe I'm off though and it's still better to go NE even w/ pacifism and delaying CoL and Bureaucracy. Somebody who has actually done the calculations do feel free to correct me ;).
     

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