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GPIT 1695AD (?) Wednesday Aug 29, 10PM MST (GMT-7) 0500 GMT Thursday

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Democracy Game II' started by DaveShack, Aug 28, 2007.

  1. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

    Feb 2, 2003
    Arizona, USA (it's a dry heat)
    Date/Time Wednesday Aug 29, 10PM MST (GMT-7) 0500 GMT Thursday
    DP: DaveShack
    Purpose: standard 10-15 turns DOI*
    On-line @ #turnchat

    Previous (non-session) thread
    Starting Save

    I liked Donsig's idea of posting preferences for instructions. They happen to match my own. :)
    • NESW directional notation instead of 123 number pad directional notation.
    • Build queues first in Aimag instructions.
    • Screenies for city tile allocations.
    • Instructions organized by turn number if possible.
    • Worker actions placed together in one section rather than mixed with each city.
    *Depending On Instructions
  2. ordinaryguy

    ordinaryguy Back to Civ!

    May 18, 2006

    Build Queue: Units requested by Warlord


    Build Queue: Observatory -> University


    Build Queue: Observatory -> University -> Confucian Monastery


    Build Queue: Buddhist Temple -> Confucian Monastery -> Buddhist Monastery


    Build Queue: Colosseum -> Barracks[/QUOTE]

    Oh yeah, you have the freedom to allocate city tiles and specialists.
  3. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

    Jul 21, 2004
    I post this as a citizen, but is also the incoming Warlord next term.

    Please begin to form the following battlegroups, as we prepare a war in 11-12 turns. These battlegroups should be placed in such a manner, as when the war starts, the distance is the shortest.

    1. Target Dortmund (8 Knights)
    2. Target Antium (12 Macemen, 5 catapults, 2 pikemen, 2 chariots)
    3. Target Hamburg (12 Macemen, 5 catapults, 2 pikemen, 2 chariots)
    4. Target Arpinium (7 Axes, 4 catapults, 2 pikemen 5 keshiks)

    New Longbowmen are to replace city garrisons that are not Warriors, Archers, Spearmen or Longbowmen, and liberate these for frontline duties. We will also thin out garrisons behind the Roman frontlines, so we only got 1 unit per city, with the Longbowmen in coastal cities and the warriors and archers away from the border inland. The spearmen should still be on the Roman Border.
  4. Hyronymus

    Hyronymus Troop leader

    Nov 25, 2003
    As I'm still not behind a PC with Civ4 installed I let the instructions for the Northwestern aimag to be determined by the DP.

    As interim Chieftain I do hope other aimags will post instructions even though I realise I'm probably not really the right person to expect it right now :(.
  5. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity Retired Moderator

    Jan 5, 2006
    Citizen Dutchfire:

    By constituency(did I get that Constitution term correctly?):
    If we get a Great Engineer, then move him to the city where we'll build the Statue of Liberty (Riversight?), and use him to hurry production there.

    If we get a Great Prophet, then move him to Equus Aurum and settle him there.

    If we get a Great Scientist, move him to Xanadu and build an academy there.
  6. Tanktunker

    Tanktunker Missionary of Hate

    Jul 20, 2007
    Reasearch Replaceable Parts, Drama and Gunpowder.
  7. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

    Feb 2, 2003
    Arizona, USA (it's a dry heat)
    Starting now. Here are the instructions.

    Oh yeah, you have the freedom to allocate city tiles and specialists.[/quote]

  8. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

    Feb 2, 2003
    Arizona, USA (it's a dry heat)
    • Completed 8 turns, started 9th
    • Finished Taj Mahal on turn 1
    • Got an Engineer, used him to rush Statue of Liberty knocking off 800 hammers
    • Finished Statue of Liberty (NOTA) on turn 8
    • Built a ton of units -- lost count there were so many, see chatlog
    • Finished build queues for all those cities which had one supplied
    • Built a couple of galleons and 3 more in production
    • Incas are inbound with a galleon, 2 longbows, settler, worker
    • Researched RP, Drama, Gunpowder, Rifling
    • Over 2000g in treasury. Getting +23gpt without MMing the extra specialists from Liberty

    Preturn save
    turn 5 save
    ending save

    Spoiler :

    Session Start: Wed Aug 29 22:03:14 2007
    Session Ident: #turnchat
    [22:03] * Now talking in #turnchat
    [22:03] * Topic is 'Turnchat Sunday 29th of Juli 18.00 GMT 2.00 EDT'
    [22:03] * Set by dutchfire on Sun Jul 29 10:09:37
    [22:03] * Chieftess sets mode: +v DaveShack
    [22:03] * Mafioso sets mode: +o DaveShack
    [22:08] <DaveShack> session starting
    [22:08] <DaveShack> launching civ
    [22:26] <DaveShack> checked build queues, all correct
    [22:26] <DaveShack> research set to RP
    [22:27] <DaveShack> looking at current unit dispositions
    [22:29] <DaveShack> Dortmund: knights (no catapults)
    [22:29] <DaveShack> woke catapults near Dortmund and started movement towards Berlin
    [22:31] <DaveShack> ditto mace and axe
    [22:31] <DaveShack> Dortmund has 3 knights within 3 turns. Don't want them to be right on the border to avoid early DOW
    [22:32] <DaveShack> moved knight 2 to other knight location near Dortmund
    [22:33] <DaveShack> Tartar has a mace and axe, needs a longbow for defense
    [22:35] <DaveShack> Coppertown is making 105h, needs more expensive units to build. there's a problem you usually don't see
    [22:36] <DaveShack> switched EA to longbow, was producing catapult which we have plenty of for now
    [22:37] <DaveShack> ditto Riversight
    [22:40] <DaveShack> woke golden battlewagons (chariot) and moved inside borders, can temporary garrison in city#1
    [22:41] <DaveShack> reminds me to check name of city #1, should have had a naming poll by now
    [22:43] <DaveShack> City #1 renamed to Clam Cove
    [22:44] <DaveShack> set noyan 1st steppe (axe) and noyan amputators (axe) toward Neapolis
    [22:46] <DaveShack> 3. stormer (mace) from cologne to cumae
    [22:48] <DaveShack> don't see any other ready moves for troop positioning, so end of turn 0
    [22:48] <DaveShack> 1695 AD, 1248g+23gpt, RP in 4, Taj in 1, saving but not uploading
    [22:49] <DaveShack> smashing the button
    [22:49] <DaveShack> Taj completes, start Liberty in NOTA
    [22:50] <DaveShack> Coppertown mace->knight
    [22:51] <DaveShack> lyon observatory->longbow (mistake, will change to uni at end of city completion cycle)
    [22:51] <DaveShack> Xanadu temple->longbow
    [22:52] <DaveShack> no, that was Rheims which finished obs, change to uni
    [22:53] <DaveShack> Review of hammers in GA shows Riversight @43h, NOTA @36h
    [22:53] <DaveShack> reviewing official decision on liberty location, if any
    [22:54] <DaveShack> it was a poll, so sticking with it. Liberty will be done in 21 turns, quite a bit slower than expected
    [22:56] <DaveShack> MM NOTA to have an engineer instead of a merchant. lowers liberty to 19 turns
    [22:59] <DaveShack> @clam cove, cottage on jungle
    [23:00] <DaveShack> caravel 2 take a look at a japanese offshore island
    [23:01] <DaveShack> new mace to neapolis. holding off on promos
    [23:02] <DaveShack> frankfurt workers need a city expansion to build anything. prepare to road a forest
    [23:03] <DaveShack> bored workers near cologne do the same
    [23:04] <DaveShack> caravel #1 picks up a Incan galleon with longbow, worker, settler. think I'll follow them and see where they're going
    [23:06] <DaveShack> intel on Arpinium: 2 caravel, 2 galley, 2 horse archer, 2 longbow (defense 1; no promo)
    [23:07] <DaveShack> intel on Antium: horse archer outside, caravel, 3 longbow (1 defense 1, 2 defense 2), 2 cats
    [23:08] <DaveShack> part of NW army starts to gather at Munich. No need to make Julius completely paranoid, a little paranoid will do
    [23:09] <DaveShack> move a few workers down to NOTA to lumbermill
    [23:11] <DaveShack> watermill near neapolis
    [23:13] <DaveShack> missionary intel: hamburg has 3 longbows, horse archer, catapult outside
    [23:13] <DaveShack> 2 crossbows (double citydef), longbow (def), catapult inside
    [23:14] <DaveShack> another horse archer outside
    [23:14] <DaveShack> dortmund has 3 horse archers, longbow, 2 cats
    [23:15] <DaveShack> End of turn 1, 1271g+103gpt, RP in 2, 8 turns on GA
    [23:15] <DaveShack> wealthiest book: us, inca, aztecs, japanese, romans
    [23:16] <DaveShack> Rome upgrades horse archers to knights
    [23:16] <DaveShack> EA longbow->longbow
    [23:17] <DaveShack> Riversight longbow->longbow
    [23:18] <DaveShack> Coppertown knight->mace
    [23:18] <DaveShack> Orleans temple->conf. monastery
    [23:19] <DaveShack> Paris colosseum->barracks
    [23:19] <DaveShack> Munich pike->pike
    [23:20] <DaveShack> we get an Engineer!
    [23:21] <DaveShack> Cai Lun (engineer) sent to NOTA
    [23:21] <DaveShack> road on forest in frankfurt
    [23:23] <DaveShack> clam cove gets a workshop NW, to help its infrastructure along
    [23:23] <DaveShack> the Romans upgraded 2 knights at Hamburg
    [23:24] <DaveShack> start a road to connect arpinium more directly to coppertown
    [23:25] <DaveShack> new knight goes to Marseilles to patrol that coast and is within a turns movement of being able to attack arpinium
    [23:25] <DaveShack> ainu gets a farmed plains
    [23:26] <DaveShack> new longbow to cologne, to free mace for the front
    [23:28] <DaveShack> caravels continue to explore and follow inca galley
    [23:29] <DaveShack> end of turn 2, 1705 AD, 1374g+113gpt, RP in 1, 7 turns GA left
    [23:29] <DaveShack> RP done, starts drama(1)
    [23:31] <DaveShack> riversight longbow->mace
    [23:31] <DaveShack> coppertown mace->knight
    [23:31] <DaveShack> xanadu longbow->uni
    [23:32] <DaveShack> lyons observatory->uni
    [23:32] <DaveShack> Paris rax->galleon
    [23:33] <DaveShack> arpinium now has 3 caravel, 3 galley, 3 knight, horse archer, 2 longbow
    [23:33] <DaveShack> offshore 2 galley, longbow, settler
    [23:34] <DaveShack> antium caravel, 3 longbow, 2 cat, settler
    [23:34] <DaveShack> new longbow to Marseilles
    [23:35] <DaveShack> new mace to neapolis area
    [23:36] <DaveShack> start lumbermills in nota, frankfurt
    [23:37] <DaveShack> raqvenna has longbow, pike
    [23:38] <DaveShack> inca ship continues east, don't know if its going for our land, or an island
    [23:39] <DaveShack> end of turn 3, 1710 ad, 1487g+112gpt, drama in 1, 6 turns GA
    [23:39] <DaveShack> drama complete, start gunpowder
    [23:40] <DaveShack> gunpowder due in 1
    [23:40] <DaveShack> EA longbow->longbow
    [23:40] <DaveShack> riversight mace->knight
    [23:40] <DaveShack> coppertown knight->knight
    [23:41] <DaveShack> munich pike->pike
    [23:42] <DaveShack> Cumae observatory->theater
    [23:42] <DaveShack> berlin observatory->rax
    [23:42] <DaveShack> frankfurt library->lighthouse
    [23:43] <DaveShack> cologne lumbermill
    [23:43] <DaveShack> caravel continues to track inca
    [23:44] <DaveShack> lumbermills in NOTA
    [23:45] <DaveShack> new longbow to cologne area
    [23:45] <DaveShack> Rome has 2 knight, mace, crossbow, 4 longbow, cat. crossbow&2 longbow have defense 2
    [23:46] <DaveShack> circci has longbow, pike, cat
    [23:46] <DaveShack> caravel offshore rome
    [23:47] <DaveShack> antium has caravel, 3 longbow, 2 cat, settler -- 2 longbow with def 2
    [23:48] <DaveShack> rome still has 2 galley, longbow, settler offshore from arpinium
    [23:49] <DaveShack> arpinium 3 caravel, 3 galley, 4 knight, horse archer, 2 longbow
    [23:49] <DaveShack> riversight starts lumbermill
    [23:49] <DaveShack> end of turn 4, 1715 ad, 1599g+109gpt, gunpowder in 1, 5 left in GA
    [23:54] <DaveShack> trade: everyone has theology & music
    [23:54] <DaveShack> all but rome have gunpowder
    [23:54] <DaveShack> inca have economics
    [23:54] <DaveShack> nobody is willing to trade techs
    [23:56] <DaveShack> coppertown knight, Orleans conf. monastery->bud monastery
    [23:56] <DaveShack> berlin rax->theater
    [23:57] <DaveShack> frankfurt gets lumbermill, going to build one in clam cove too
    [23:57] <DaveShack> work on connector road to arpinium
    [23:58] <DaveShack> new knight toward dortmund
    [23:58] <DaveShack> inca still heading east, must be aiming for our coast
    Session Close: Thu Aug 30 00:00:00 2007

    Session Start: Thu Aug 30 00:00:00 2007
    Session Ident: #turnchat
    [00:00] <DaveShack> engineer hacks 800h off liberty, now due in 5 turns
    [00:01] <DaveShack> end of turn 5, 1720 ad, 1708g+105gpt, gunpowder in 1, 4 turns GA
    [00:02] <DaveShack> saving but not uploading yet
    [00:10] <DaveShack> gunpowder done, start rifling (3)
    [00:10] <DaveShack> EA longbow->musket
    [00:10] <DaveShack> coppertown longbow->musket
    [00:11] <DaveShack> Ainu observatory->uni
    [00:11] <DaveShack> Paris galleon->galleon
    [00:12] <DaveShack> pisae observatory->galleon
    [00:12] <DaveShack> munich pike->musket
    [00:13] <DaveShack> cumae theater->conf. temple
    [00:13] <DaveShack> berlin theatre->uni
    [00:14] <DaveShack> inca are still going east toward our land. now have caravel and galleon there in case we decide to whack it
    [00:16] <DaveShack> new knight to neapolis
    [00:16] <DaveShack> new longbow to frankfurt
    [00:16] <DaveShack> EA forts a longbow
    [00:17] <DaveShack> start more lumbermills in nota
    [00:17] <DaveShack> end of turn 6, 1725 ad, 1813g+108gpt, rifling in 3, 3 on ga
    [00:18] <DaveShack> riversight knight->musket, coppertown musket->mace
    [00:18] <DaveShack> neapolis forge->library
    [00:20] <DaveShack> cologne uni->rax
    [00:20] <DaveShack> clam cove granary->lighthouse
    [00:20] <DaveShack> frankfurt lighthouse->galleon
    [00:20] <DaveShack> tartar courthouse->lighthouse
    [00:25] <DaveShack> end of turn 7, 1730 ad, 1921g+107gpt, rifling in 2, 2 on ga
    [00:26] <DaveShack> riversight mace, coppertown mace, lyons uni-> monastery
    [00:26] <DaveShack> orleans monastery->galleon
    [00:27] <DaveShack> munich musket->settler
    [00:27] <DaveShack> cumae temple->buddhist monastery
    [00:28] <DaveShack> NOTB court->market
    [00:28] <DaveShack> cologne rax->mace
    [00:32] * Provo has joined #turnchat
    [00:32] * Chieftess sets mode: +v Provo
    [00:32] <Provo> hey there
    [00:32] <DaveShack> hi
    [00:32] <Provo> just woke up here
    [00:32] <Provo> *making coffee*
    [00:32] <DaveShack> past time to go to sleep here
    [00:32] <DaveShack> just about to get rifling and stop
    [00:33] <Provo> I am happy you moved for the patch
    [00:33] <Provo> that will increase interest
    [00:33] <DaveShack> haven't done it yet, plan to after this turnset
    [00:33] <Provo> yeah, I know
    [00:33] <DaveShack> at least nobody is complaining
    [00:33] <Provo> fits also with the terms and all
    [00:33] <Provo> it was different with Civ3
    [00:34] <DaveShack> end of turn 8, 1735 ad, 2028g+111gpt, rifling in 1, 1 turn left on ga
    [00:34] <Provo> I just hope we can get this continent covered :)
    [00:34] <DaveShack> incas are inbound with a galleon, that will be one of our first decisions of the new term
    [00:34] <Provo> how is the march up of troops?
    [00:34] <Provo> which side Incas ?
    [00:35] <DaveShack> coming from the west, going along the southern coast
    [00:35] <Provo> well, then we need to settle the entire eastern coast
    [00:35] <Provo> starting southeast
    [00:35] <Provo> we are beyond arguing that now
    [00:35] <DaveShack> rifling is done, chose chemistry for now
    [00:36] <Provo> good :)
    [00:36] <Provo> we like rifling
    [00:36] <DaveShack> liberty is done :D
    [00:36] <Provo> liberty ?
    [00:36] <DaveShack> statue of liberty
    [00:36] <Provo> statue you mean ? :)
    [00:36] <Provo> we like that too
    [00:36] <Provo> big impact on slider ?
    [00:36] <DaveShack> gotta wade through all these cities first
    [00:37] <Provo> ok
    [00:37] <DaveShack> nota starts observatory? forgot what i picked
    [00:37] <DaveShack> coppertown mace->rifle (in 1 !!)
    [00:38] <DaveShack> rheims uni>harbor
    [00:38] <DaveShack> lyons monastery>harbor
    [00:38] <DaveShack> just placeholders, instructions have run out everywhere
    [00:38] <DaveShack> paris galleon->another (now have several ships)
    [00:39] <DaveShack> munich is on a settler, it was just handy at the time and know we need one asap
    [00:39] <Provo> maybe we get a few double city raider rifles for the war :)
    [00:39] <Provo> way more effective than cavalry
    [00:40] <Provo> you mean settler for east coast?
    [00:40] <DaveShack> statue hasnt made any gpt difference yet, but haven't gone through MM
    [00:40] <Provo> what about the military ?
    [00:40] <Provo> Munich is the near border military production city
    [00:41] <Provo> if we get enough to take the Romans, sure
    [00:41] <DaveShack> total force is up to 10 longbows, 13 knights, 22 maces, 6 pike, 3 muskets plus various upgradeable units
    [00:42] <Provo> yes, axes, warrior, bows and spears
    [00:42] <Provo> catapults?
    [00:42] <Provo> 14 ?
    [00:42] <DaveShack> most of the session Munich was on pikes. just tossed in that settler when the incas started getting close and it came up in the order... not much instructios so winging it
    [00:43] <Provo> I agree then
    [00:43] <DaveShack> right, havent added any cats yet, in GA we would have wasted overflow
    [00:43] <Provo> we need settlers quick
    [00:43] <DaveShack> the overflow was borderline on more than the next unit most of the time
    [00:43] <Provo> and I think cats will handle the war
    [00:43] <Provo> 14 would do
    [00:43] <Provo> yes, overflow is a good argument
    [00:44] <Provo> as long as we cover the coast with 3 cities, we are agood
    [00:44] <Provo> good
    [00:44] <Provo> now the dramas will come in handy
    [00:44] <Provo> with theatre
    [00:44] <DaveShack> yeah, we'll probably change most of the SE city builds to try to beat the incas to all the spots
    [00:45] <Provo> I think Ainu is a good settler production site
    [00:45] <DaveShack> they're off the French penninsula right now, so we have a few turns
    [00:45] <Provo> also, engineering now proves it
    [00:45] <Provo> faster to get settlers out
    [00:45] <DaveShack> weird they took the long way around, but good for us
    [00:46] <Provo> Incas are maybe on both sides of their continent
    [00:46] <Provo> I guess Incas are on a lone continent/island
    [00:46] <Provo> as they are christians and got many wonders
    [00:46] <Provo> others montezuma would have gotten there
    [00:46] <Provo> I think we need more navy this term
    [00:47] <Provo> we have been insular for too long
    [00:47] <DaveShack> 2 galleons and 3 queued, took chemistry for the frigates
    [00:47] <DaveShack> we'll see if that holds up
    [00:48] <Provo> in Lyons ?
    [00:48] <Provo> I think the governor failed to grasp the golden age productivity ratio
    [00:49] <DaveShack> paris ended up being the shipyard, had the fewest instructions so I could get creative there first
    [00:50] <DaveShack> this was the least instructions for a session I think we've ever had, with all the resignations and people who can't open the save
    [00:51] <Provo> BTS had a major impact
    [00:51] <Provo> we cannot help that
    [00:52] <Provo> amazing how Firaxis seem to "forget" game features in new installments, and then seem to "reinvent" them whenever they need money in expansions
    [00:52] <Provo> I like the game, but not their business model
    [00:52] <Provo> take spy for example
    [00:53] <DaveShack> I'm a SW developer of a different kind, and hitting the customer base's install window is the driving factor
    [00:53] <Provo> yeah
    [00:53] <DaveShack> civ4 was driven by Christmas, BTS by back to school
    [00:53] <Provo> my programmers are currently in MS Biztalk and Ajax (my software firm)
    [00:54] <DaveShack> my main customers are financials, so we like to release right before the end of a quarter so they can do EOQ processing and then upgrade
    [00:55] <Provo> our customer base are all that incorporates new firms
    [00:56] <Provo> so we follow more or less the same business cycle as Firaxis
    [00:56] <Provo> fall and x-mas (before that is the last period you can incorporate)
    [00:56] <Provo> anywho
    [00:56] <DaveShack> wow, it's late... just noticed its 1am here - no wonder it feels like my eyes have toothpicks in them
    [00:57] <Provo> anyhow
    [00:57] <Provo> we better get to the end of this
    [00:57] <Provo> line up the forces for the war
    [00:57] <Provo> shame we got no cannons
    [00:57] <Provo> but the Romans got longbowmen , so that is ok
    [00:57] <DaveShack> gotta save this thing and write a summary
    [00:57] <Provo> all rite
    [00:57] <Provo> concluded then ?
    [00:58] <Provo> good run
    [00:58] <DaveShack> Romans have some defender 2 longbows and a few crossbows, not much of a fight coming
    [00:58] <DaveShack> yep, have saved it and need to switch to the other comp to upload
    [00:58] <DaveShack> have a good day
    [00:59] <Provo> please post a save with the new patch
    [00:59] <Provo> you too :)
    [00:59] <DaveShack> gotta get the instructions for that conversion, it's closely held so that gotm folks cant use the technique to unlock those saves
    [01:10] <Provo> I see
    [01:10] <Provo> but that conversion is needed anyhow
    [01:10] <Provo> to get up ratings
    [01:10] <Provo> I think you now see why military tradition is a dead end compared to infantry armies
    [01:11] <DaveShack> without the 3rd move, cavalry are not as killer in civ4 as they are in civ3
    [01:12] <Provo> exactly
    [01:12] <Provo> this is why we argued for riflemen
    [01:12] <Provo> double city raider riflemen would serve us for most of the game
    [01:12] <Provo> even for overseas raids
    [01:12] <Provo> I can see the next wars would be small expeditions
    [01:12] <Provo> and for that, cavalry is not needed
    [01:13] <Provo> if we want space race, that is the way to go (infantry/cannon stacks)
    Session Close: Thu Aug 30 01:14:54 2007
  9. fed1943

    fed1943 Emperor

    Nov 28, 2005

    Now we have a good Army, some Navy and great commerce.

    Best regards,
  10. Hyronymus

    Hyronymus Troop leader

    Nov 25, 2003
    Wow, this is solid stuff. I hope we can spawn settlers before the Inca's occupy a spot.
  11. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

    Jul 21, 2004
    Obviously, Dortmund is the best target for a cavalry Army (knights), as they only got 3 horse archers, 2 catapults and longbow.

    Obviously, Hamburg may need a couple of knights to bring down the 2 crossbowmen (as well as 5 best catapults). New riflemen also go for Hamburg.

    Obviously, Arpinium is still the softer target as anticipated, which is why we send axemen and other obsolete forces there.

    Obviously, Antium is the biggest target, and would require most forces to take and occupy. After Hamburg, this is also a priority target.

    Obviously, Ravenna is a target of opportunity, if we manage to take both Dortmund and Hamburg at a low cost. Knights from Dortmund and undamaged siege specialists from Hamburg go on to Ravenna if possible.
  12. Hyronymus

    Hyronymus Troop leader

    Nov 25, 2003
    Sounds like a solid plan, Provolution. Obviously.
  13. HUSch

    HUSch Secret-monger

    Nov 23, 2005
    :goodjob: Dave
  14. Joe Harker

    Joe Harker 1st in the Premiership!

    Aug 31, 2006
    Well done :goodjob:

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