Thorgrimm said:Arvln wrote:
Actually, i was half wrong and you were all wrong.I was right that the first US jet did take off of a Midway class, but the first operational jet squadron was on the USS Saipan, a CVL.
I am wrong?
First. I did not say that the FIRST US jet took of from Essex class, I did say that US Navy deploy jet aircraft in Essex class aircraft carrier.
But if what you actually meant that the first US Navy jet aircraft was taking off from Midway class carrier then you are right.
Second; You are saying that Zepp was to small to have jet fighter, I did not agree wiht that. The difference of Essex' and Zepp's length was more or less 10 metres; therefore I believe they can carry those jet. And the fact that first operational jet squadron was on the USS Saipan( length of 684 feet), a CVL which I think much smaller than Essex(872 feet), support my point even more.
If you are refering about the picture read the caption carefully, "......was the first carrier to launch banshee twinjet fighters on combat mission." It didn't say that Banshee twinjet fighters was the first US jet in the carrier. And I agree with you that FH-1 Phantom was the first Navy's jet to take of from carrier.
Graf Zeppelin WIP
- Thread starter Wyrmshadow
- Start date
Thorgrimm
Senior Elder
Thorgrimm wrote:
But what i was trying to say was the first operational jet squadron's were on the Midways, which turned out to be wrong.
Just to clear up the confusion.
Cheers Thorgrimm
Since i withdrew my objection about the size the point is moot.
But what i was trying to say was the first operational jet squadron's were on the Midways, which turned out to be wrong.
Just to clear up the confusion.
Cheers Thorgrimm 
Wyrmshadow
Deity
STOP CALLING IT THE GRAF SPEE!!!
The Adm. Graf Spee was a pocket battleship. This is an aircraft carrier. I was going to overlook it once but you said it again.
Graf is just a German name. The First Zeppelin's were named after the builder, Count Graf von Zeppelin. Admiral Graf Spee was an early naval pioneer for the German Imperial Navy.
The Carrier is named after the airship dude. The Graf Spee was a completely different ship. It WAS built and then scuttled after the Battle of Rio de la Platta.
The Adm. Graf Spee was a pocket battleship. This is an aircraft carrier. I was going to overlook it once but you said it again.
Graf is just a German name. The First Zeppelin's were named after the builder, Count Graf von Zeppelin. Admiral Graf Spee was an early naval pioneer for the German Imperial Navy.
The Carrier is named after the airship dude. The Graf Spee was a completely different ship. It WAS built and then scuttled after the Battle of Rio de la Platta.
Wyrmshadow, from the picture I understand why it was called a pocket battleship 
MarineCorps
Explosion!
Whats a pocket battleship anyways?
Intresting ID numbers on that Graf spee.
Intresting ID numbers on that Graf spee.
Sarevok
Civ3 Scenario Creator
another carrier unit.... another carrier unit I wont use...
Wyrmshadow
Deity
"Pocket Battleship" was a phrase coined by Winston Churchill to describe this class and the name stuck. They were the size of large cruisers, were fast, but carried 6 eleven inch guns. Far larger than anything a cruiser carried. Almost battlecruisers but didt have the size. So in a sense they were mini-BB's.
MarineCorps
Explosion!
So were they bigger or smaller then a BC?
Wyrmshadow
Deity
After World War I the Versailles Treaty limited the construction of new warships in Germany. It was allowed to keep six old battleships of the Deutschland and Lothringen class, six small cruisers, 12 DDs and 12 torpedo boats. According to Article 190 of the treaty, the battleships could be replaced 20 years after they were commissioned, but the replacement must not exceed 10000 tons.
Therefore, the first replacement was ordered in 1928, the Panzerschiff A which later got the names Deutschland and Lützow . The planing first went into two directions, a heavy armed and protected monitor for coastal defenses or a cruiser like ship with a larger range but less armor. Since France was the possible enemy in this days the second alternative was chosen to build a ship that could threaten French merchant shipping. The concept of the new Panzerschiffe was "faster than stronger enemies" (i.e. battleships except the British BC Hood, Renown and Repulse), "and stronger than faster enemies" (CAs and CLs), which was plausible in the days before the fast battleships.
In many ways, the Panzerschiffe introduced revolutionary techniques for ships of their size, they were Diesel powered to increase their operational range and hull was intensively welded to reduce weight. Although their official size was 10000 ts, their maximum displacement was about 50% higher.
All three Panzerschiffe, which were called "Westentaschen-Schlachtschiffe" - "Pocket Battleships" outside of Germany, had the same basic design, their outer appearance was quite different, especially the design of the command tower.
All ships were used in the international sea patrols off the Spanish coast during the Spanish civil war and had different fates in World War II. The Admiral Graf Spee was lost early in the war when it was scuttled after the famous battle of the River Plate.
A WW1 BC was a battleship, with less armor so it would move faster. That was the brittish design anyway. The German BC had more armor than a normal BB so it was slower. but they wre gerneally the same size. The Gaf Spee was a tiny ship.
Dimensions
Size (Max): 16023 t
Length (Total): 186,0 m
Length (Waterline): 181,7 m
Beam: 21,65 m
Draft: 7,34 m
Crew: 1001-1150
Wyrmshadow
Deity
close up view of the packed deck. the entire airwing is visible, minues the 2 Me-109T's on the catapults.
Wyrmshadow
Deity
close up view of the planes. All are low quality, low polygon models so don't expect any units to come from these.
Me-109T
Ju 87 C "Sea Stuka"
Fi 167, biplane torpedo bomber
Me-109T
Ju 87 C "Sea Stuka"
Fi 167, biplane torpedo bomber
MarineCorps
Explosion!
Awsome .
Goldflash
Civ III Modder, Civ VII Player
I would like to see the Sea Stuka, if you find a better model, Wyrm. Would be Usefull.
Wyrmshadow
Deity
... Really, I try not to repeat myself but -- another excellent subject & execution! And another extraordinary addition to Wyrmshadow's (and I use the term generically) Kriegsmarine.
Best,
Oz
but -- another excellent subject & execution! And another extraordinary addition to Wyrmshadow's (and I use the term generically) Kriegsmarine. Best,
Oz
W.i.n.t.e.r
Frozen!
its 7.30 am - and i just love surprises of this kind - its worth while waking up in the morning with another brand new Wyrmshadow unit waiting in the mail hell of a sweet one buddy- alas, finally little Dolf can take his henchmen out for a cruise ...
hell of a sweet one buddy- alas, finally little Dolf can take his henchmen out for a cruise ...
Adler17
Prussian Feldmarschall
Well done unit Wyrm, but the "name" Graf is indeed the German title for Count.
Adler
Adler
W.i.n.t.e.r said:its 7.30 am - and i just love surprises of this kind - its worth while waking up in the morning with another brand new Wyrmshadow unit waiting in the mailYeah, who'd've thought being an insomniac would have its up-side?
-Oz
W.i.n.t.e.r
Frozen!
mentioning insomniac and the spee controversy: I propose we go looking around the web for free 3d models Wyrmshadow could use - i.e. The Spee, Japanese Cruisers, etc
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