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[NFP] Gran Colombia first look

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by tedhebert, May 19, 2020.

  1. Sostratus

    Sostratus Deity

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    Well, a few things:
    The devs we know of mostly play on prince/king. They aren’t MP meta gamers.

    Balancing civilizations against each other isn’t the only concern. There’s a lot of other content in the game that things have to be balanced with, like how fast players get through the tree, systems like housing and trade routes, etc.
    Moving the overall power level of all civs can mess up that balance with everything else and interfere with the original intended gameplay.

    That doesn’t mean things cannot change, but its something devs need to watch out for over the long term.
     
    Kjimmet, King Rad, Atlas627 and 3 others like this.
  2. Mediocrity

    Mediocrity Warlord

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    Perhaps I have too much faith in the benevolence of Firaxis then :p

    I suppose our fundamental disagreement would be something along the lines of:
    1) You expect a more angle-cutting approach since businesses are more generally more likely to go for a cheaper option.
    2) I am expecting Firaxis to go above and beyond what is required because they love their work that much.

    If I have misrepresented your point, feel free to correct me.
     
  3. Sostratus

    Sostratus Deity

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    The lack of early economic bonuses is why I think GC will ultimately be a very good Civ but not in the ranks of Korea etc. the S tier civs generally have both military and economic boosts that together make them able to play around almost anything. Nubia have +50% prod towards ranged units, for example, and a little extra juice from mines right off the bat.

    The real dice roll will be if GC can proc one of their "strong" unique GGs at classical or not. I don't know the ability lists, but its safe to assume some of them will be more suited for domination. I suspect timing a classical GG +Commandant + Horse or Sword rush with archer backup will be their best play, which is ultimately a more reliable but more expensive version of what hungary does (albeit hungary needs the early CS.)
     
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  4. Thenewwwguy

    Thenewwwguy Emperor

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    he has the movement speed advantage, which is significant.

    I also think Kublai will be the new leader, but the issue is that Genghis becomes completely pointless to use when the Ordu bonus that he gets is given to GC by default. I’d rather use GC

    I mean, a campus with even +1 or +2 science may end up better than an observatory where you can’t even be sure you’ll get a plantation nearby. I’d rather take the standard campus because at least I can be somewhat sure that I don’t have to worry about my surroundings as much.
    movement ability affects traders too, i believe, so that is a good economic benefit
     
  5. Haig

    Haig Deity

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    Hate to be Gran Colombia's neighbor: Bolivar's tendencies to build encampents, the extra movement and the comandante generals can make him a strong opponent.
     
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  6. DJ_Tanner

    DJ_Tanner Emperor

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    I think the Maya have a lot more flexibility than you give them credit for. A good campus has 1 spot, but the Maya can pick and choose a lot more spots for really good ones (so they may have cities that are more versatile). And having a tight ring also helps with that turtle nature.

    Not saying a straight warmonger isn't a more simple solution. Just that I think the Maya can turtle easy and set themselves up for a real strong late game fairly easily.
     
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  7. pokiehl

    pokiehl King

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    The movement does not affect traders. You can increase trader movement to 10 by a mod and they still go 1 tile at a time.
     
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  8. OmegaDestroyer

    OmegaDestroyer King

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    People complaining about using animation assets are overreacting. In fact, I'm disappointed we didn't have more of it. Who wouldn't want to see Wilhelmina jacked up like Gilgamesh? Or have Wilfrid whip out a hatchet denouncing you? C'mon. It would be funny!

    In all seriousness, it doesn't bother me very much that they may have reused assets. Leader animations, while fun and very well animated, don't impact the game play itself, so why fret about it? Now if they had reused music, I'd be furious.

    As to Columbia, while the +1 movement is great for soldiers, I'm looking forward to it more with builders, settlers, and religious units. I do not think it will be overwhelming powerful like some people predict. I can't see the AI using Gran Columbia any better than any other civ and a skilled player is going to wipe the floor with AIs regardless of combat bonuses.
     
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  9. IvoryPavane

    IvoryPavane Prince

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    I would argue the reverse is true. With the observatory you are guaranteed +1 with either two farms (which you have to build anyway for your housing), or a farm and a district. Given that you control where these things are, I’d argue it’s much more consistent than relying on things that may or may not appear. I think Observatory will be considerably more consistent than a Standard campus
     
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  10. Thenewwwguy

    Thenewwwguy Emperor

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    I think because they have conflicting land use abilities it’s not as easy to place a observatory as one would think.

    I just think it’s funny that they were so worried about Maya being Op that they overnerfed it and then made Colombia so insanely good
     
  11. The Highwayman

    The Highwayman Prince

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    Agreed, based on the live streams. They're not SP meta gamers either.
     
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  12. Ondolindë

    Ondolindë Emperor

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    I would naturally think this should be nerfed, but in this case PLEASE DON'T. It's just perfect!
     
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  13. Sostratus

    Sostratus Deity

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    When I see GC swords with 36+5(GG)+4(Commandante)+4(oligarchy) = 49 strength and 4 movement, I think that's when I just sort of give up.
    They probably weren't thrilled about the prospect of creating "korea 2: yucatan boogaloo" that had a seowon level unique campus and was effectively unrushable. That would be truly a new tier of civs.
     
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  14. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Deity

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    I'd wager that Maya will be much more consistent city by city than other civs' "decently placed campus" God spots, though. And of course they'll come many turns sooner. Does ten turns sooner justify a +4 campus vs +3 observatory?
     
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  15. WillowBrook

    WillowBrook Lurker

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    It's not at all clear to me if you get the unit when you individually enter a new era by discovering a tech or civic from it or if it goes by world era (which exists both in vanilla and R&F, but in different forms). Has anyone seen a clarifying description?

    I have my doubts that traders will move any faster with this ability.
     
  16. GenyaArikado

    GenyaArikado Judge of Love

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    LO HICIMOS VENEZUELA!!!!

    Bolivar looks amazing. And for the people complaining about it being "only good for domination" guess what? That was gran colombia's thing. Bolivar was another Alexander/Napoleon, he just happened to have good PR because he was "liberating" people.
     
  17. DJ_Tanner

    DJ_Tanner Emperor

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    Well early power spike civs need a very careful hand since they get their bonus for so much longer. And with GC their spike isn't until fairly late so I think these 2 may be a little closer in power than you do. That said, I am far more interested in Maya than GC, but that is because I have never been much for the straight forward warmongers.
     
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  18. Tiger Genocide

    Tiger Genocide Prince

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    I like that idea. Swords and horsemen will upgrade nicely later.

    I was also thinking of scenarios where you avoid most early war opportunities with GC just like you can with Shaka. Just like in Civ5, Shaka does not get strong until he gets his Impis, once he does he is a monster. Since they can steamroll the map very well, sometimes waiting a little bit makes it easier than slogging through ancient era warfare with basic units. If that siege unit movement bonus holds at release, waiting for catapults might not be a bad idea at all. Why worry about loyalty pressure if you can take cities very fast, like the Ottomans can. Make two main forces and the map will be swept quickly.
     
  19. Thenewwwguy

    Thenewwwguy Emperor

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    oh yeah same, maya seem really interesting to me, but I’m not a fan of tall play or domination play (unless it’s the ottomans, which i really enjoy playing as) so I’ll probably not play as either of these civs too often.
     
  20. DJ_Tanner

    DJ_Tanner Emperor

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    What I find overly silly about it, is that it is just the underlying skeletons and their idle standing animations. Everyone of the leaders still have their own unique animations and personality, I mean so what if two people stand similar, people actually do stand similar, its just standing....
     

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