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[NFP] Gran Colombia first look

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by tedhebert, May 19, 2020.

  1. Ondolindë

    Ondolindë Emperor

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    Not amused.

    Edit: Unnecessary quote included
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2020
  2. Tiger Genocide

    Tiger Genocide Prince

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    I would pay 200 bucks to watch Carl play against Lily Lancer, just for the laughs. I don't gamble but I would also bet Carl would lose either under 50 turns or Lily Lancer would be in the information era while Carl is in industrial.
     
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  3. Scaramanga

    Scaramanga Brickhead

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    They will conquer fast but they may have loyalty issues.
     
  4. Thenewwwguy

    Thenewwwguy Emperor

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    well that’s not a given, it’s really based on where they’re conquering, as any civ is
     
  5. Tiger Genocide

    Tiger Genocide Prince

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    If they conquer the "right" high population cities in the correct order, they likely will not. That said, the stupid changes Firaxis made to the golden ages/dark ages make it hard to stay out of dark age when doing pure warmongering. Sometimes you end up short on getting that heroic age as well. Also the game speed you choose makes it easier or harder to stay out of dark ages as well. If you are a marathon player, likely you will be fine.
     
  6. Ondolindë

    Ondolindë Emperor

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    Well, you could always go out of your way to promote your army, starting with your Scout, and get rid of all Barbarians close by and then play peacefully. Or, as you play, by also getting rid of your closest neighbors early.:D
     
  7. Jewelrunna

    Jewelrunna Prince

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    Everyone in this thread that's freaking out about Gran Colombia completely power creeping out Mongolia need to take a second to breathe and think critically here. Yeah, Gran Colombia have a better movement speed bonus than Mongolia, that's true. But you're also forgetting that Mongolia basically have a free +6 Combat Strength over their opponents at all times, thanks to Örtöö, and another +3 CS to Cavalry units. On top of that, they can capture other Cavalry units, bolstering their army even more.

    Now, do I think Gran Colombia are a better Civ than Mongolia? I would say yes, but that's more because I think Gran Colombia is an overall more well-rounded Civ. But Mongolia is still just fine, guys. That movement speed from the Ordu isn't everything they have going for them. If it were better, Mongolia would be hilariously OP.
     
  8. Vizurok

    Vizurok Magyar Soldier

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    Why would they have loyalty issues? They don't have any loyalty manus and if anything, the movement bonus helps a lot with fast conquest which solves all loyalty issues.

    Also, I don't really understand how people can say that they are a late-booming civ. They get a free General at the start of the Classical Era and have a movement bonus that will be presumably further boosted by the GG, so if they manage to build up a decent-ish army in the Ancient Era, they can just walk through their neighbors.
     
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  9. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

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    If Colombia's unique generals give the same bonus as regular great generals, then GC essentially gets a default +5 combat strength to all units from fairly early, which is a pretty solid bonus too.

    GC's largest movement bonuses are basically that, assuming they don't change the rules, all their artillery will be able to move and shoot. Plus the promote+attack will get a few extra attacks from them than other civs don't get.
     
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  10. MrRadar

    MrRadar Emperor

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    They will conquer so fast, those issues just won't be able to keep up.
    And even if they hit some unlikely loyalty wall, they will pillage even faster and be home with your stuff before you can blink. And then they will be back declaring on you with a colonial war CB.
    Nah, just kidding, I know this stuff is far beyond AI's powers. But not beyond yours :)
    I really want to see those patch notes...
     
  11. King Rad

    King Rad Warlord

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    This could in fact put them in the game just about the time that, if you're into liberating city states and/or cities of allies taken by other civs, you would start to do this - just in time for El Libertador to do his thing.
     
  12. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    I mean culture from Llaneros or Haciendas would have been nice maybe too, but I agree.

    At least it will be like what really happened.
     
  13. Shibooyeah

    Shibooyeah Chieftain

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    With the movement ability can you buy a unit and move it on the same turn? Or no?

    But also using apostles a turn early with their promotion is nice
     
  14. FinalDoomsday

    FinalDoomsday Warlord

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    looks like I better get a Gran Columbia game in quickly seeing how much desire there is for a nerf already...

    Does anyone else think fighting this guy as an AI might be pretty fun? Hes prediposed to dislike you if you dont fight lots and he gets extra movement that will help with the AI's poor tactics.
     
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  15. Scaramanga

    Scaramanga Brickhead

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    They don’t have a loyalty bonus to go in hand with the movement either so if they don’t maintain a winning streak there could be problems.
     
  16. fantsu

    fantsu Prince

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    Love fast workers, so good. Fast settlers? Nice, you can plant that city few turns faster. Not my kind of leader, but better than many, sounds really strong. This guy is strong from turn 1. You even have chance to move and settle. Beast in early game, thats for sure.
     
  17. Wielki Hegemon

    Wielki Hegemon King

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    I have explained what I don't like and what I do like (both in Maya and Gran Colombia topics) in a constructive way (I hope so). Sorry, but if you call all negative opinions complaining where is the ground for discussion? :D
     
  18. riddleofsteel

    riddleofsteel Office Linebacker

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    Oh, I'm not saying I necessarily WANT a nerf - I just anticipate there will be one.

    Exactly. It's the right of people to express their feelings on a topic within a given thread, whether those feelings are reasonable or not.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 19, 2020
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  19. DJ_Tanner

    DJ_Tanner Emperor

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    I wouldn't say that I am worried about the power creep as much as I don't love that it just kinda takes away from Mongolia's thing. I think there are ways to modify it, where it is still strong but doesn't step on toes as much, like having it on their home continent which is also a bit for fitting for the GC itself.
     
  20. Amrunril

    Amrunril Emperor

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    This is a very interesting civ design, and it’s taken me a bit of time to get my head around it. I think that pretty much every element of this civ could be a positive addition to the game in the right context. However, I also think that putting them all into one civ is mistake. It’s just too much with regards to power budgeting, and it’s also a missed opportunity with regard to including a mixture of simple and complex civ designs in the game.

    Ejercito Patriota While the movement bonus has been pretty widely criticized, I’m glad to have it exist in the game. This sort of extremely simple yet massively impactful bonus makes for far distinctive and memorable civs than many of the designs we’ve seen. However, since it's such a powerful bonus, it’s important to balance the rest of the civ with this in mind. In Civ V, for instance, Korea had one of the strongest UAs, so the devs paired it with two UUs that, while distinctive and situationally powerful, also introduced major handicaps. Clearly that’s not what happened here. While the UU and UI are limited to some degree by their mid to late game nature, both clearly have quite a bit of power once they do come into play.

    Campana Admirable/Comandante General This seems like by far the civ’s most unique and intriguing ability, and I think it’s a shame it’s been mostly overshadowed in discussions so far. Ironically, it actually reminds me a bit of Civ V’s Maya, though the order being randomized does make it quite a bit different. A lot will depend on the exact abilities, but I could see these unique great generals adding quite a bit of replayability/game to game variation to Gran Columbia depending on the order they appear and how you prioritize maintaining/expending them. Of course, this does make Gran Columbia something of an “advanced” civ, complexity-wise, so it might not be a good combination with the civ ability, which is much more straightforward and would otherwise have made for a good “intro” civ.

    Llanero Possibly, the civ's least impressive element, design-wise, this is a UU with a lot going on, but little of it particularly stands out or has a clear flavor justification. The interaction with Comandante Generals is perhaps best with regard to distinctiveness, though civ/leader abilities that can’t function without one another still bug me, since civs and leaders really should be interchangeable if you’re going to go to the trouble of distinguishing their abilities from one another. If “singing warrior” is the flavor they’re aiming, for a culture ability of some sort would be much better, making for a potentially distinctive ability without adding too much power to the areas where the civ is already strong.

    Hacienda A fine UI in its own right, but I really struggle to see how anyone could look at the rest of this civ and conclude it needs a spammable production and housing bonus. This is the sort of improvement that, combined with other abilities, would be a civ-defining feature, and adding it here just seems like massive overkill.
     

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