1. We have added the ability to collapse/expand forum categories and widgets on forum home.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Photobucket has changed its policy concerning hotlinking images and now requires an account with a $399.00 annual fee to allow hotlink. More information is available at: this link.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. All Civ avatars are brought back and available for selection in the Avatar Gallery! There are 945 avatars total.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. To make the site more secure, we have installed SSL certificates and enabled HTTPS for both the main site and forums.
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Civ6 is released! Order now! (Amazon US | Amazon UK | Amazon CA | Amazon DE | Amazon FR)
    Dismiss Notice
  6. Dismiss Notice
  7. Forum account upgrades are available for ad-free browsing.
    Dismiss Notice

Granary - How much bonus food is needed to make it a priority?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by blightmoon, Jul 21, 2011.

  1. blightmoon

    blightmoon Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 25, 2011
    Messages:
    75
    Lately, in my games I've been delaying the building of the granary especially if I don't have much bonus food to gain from building it. For that reason, I tend to like cows better. I think building a granary delays my expansion and other timings too much. I feel like effort should simply be focused on other things knowing that maritime CSs give 3 food to start + lux.

    However, I know that for some spawns, it can be very powerful to build it early. The question is, "How many sugar/wheat/etc. tiles around one's city makes it very much an important building early on, especially for civs that are not necessarily strong going for a tall empire?" I know some civs with almost default tall empire strategy want to build it early, but for those whose strategy is more flexible in that aspect, how many tiles?
     
  2. Trickster7135

    Trickster7135 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2010
    Messages:
    321
    Location:
    954, Florida
    If you're on plains and there's at least one wheat, its a good building to build/buy if its early and that city is going to be doing something more than trade posts. Grasslands you can skip it if you're going wide.
     
  3. Antarion

    Antarion Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 24, 2004
    Messages:
    333
    depends first on your policies. if your focusing on liberyt dont build them early on, just go for workers and settlers in your capital. if your playing tradition/india/egypt grab them after your first worker.

    its all situational, if you go vertical they are often my first building.
     
  4. w a i n y

    w a i n y Let's Play Deity!

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2011
    Messages:
    388
    Location:
    Toronto
    It really depends on your starting strategy. Even with no bonus food, it can be worth it if, say, you've just finished cranking out units in your capital for an early rush and have lots of high-production, moderate-food tiles (like sheep, stone, marble, horse) which you'd like to work while still growing quickly to get your economy into shape. In this situation it's more cost-effective to build a granary in 3-4 turns rather than spending 500 gold on a maritime that you could better use to upgrade to knights/crossbows/LS.
    Or not, it is rather situational.
     
  5. blightmoon

    blightmoon Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 25, 2011
    Messages:
    75
    So, your suggestion is to build them late for non-tall empires regardless of any bonus food?

    What about maritime states? +2 food alone I feel doesn't justify -1 gold and the spent hammers, unless I get more than 2 food. I think building it late diminishes its use significantly especially because aqueduct scales better to late game.

    I think warmongering civs can skip it and defer it much much later if it's 2 food only. I'm looking for a more meaningful answer. More specifically, how many tiles...?
     
  6. blightmoon

    blightmoon Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 25, 2011
    Messages:
    75
    I think buying it early on is quite a waste given maritime states.
     
  7. Antarion

    Antarion Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 24, 2004
    Messages:
    333
    aqueduct is really mid game, but still at this time a granary can be better if the city has 3 or less rawr food plus. if you found in mid game a new city which should first get a certain amount of hammers a granary is often much better then everything else, except maybe a water mill.
     
  8. blightmoon

    blightmoon Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 25, 2011
    Messages:
    75
    So, it is good to build later on when it costs 3-4 turns on standard. But what could make it quite advantageous to build early on (when building it takes some 15++ turns on epic)? I think a 3-4 wheat/other bonus tile just calls for granary to be built, but I'm not really sure.

    I think the timing of building it (and a lot of other things) being situational comes later in the game.

    To make a reference point, what would make you build a granary before a library for example? What could make it part of a not-tall empire's opening moves?
     
  9. blightmoon

    blightmoon Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 25, 2011
    Messages:
    75
    I agree buying it in expansion cities helps. For maybe a 3 to 5 cities + puppets empire, the boost helps in setting the machine up, I think.

    How about in the starting city? What makes it part of the opening moves?
     
  10. RealHuhn

    RealHuhn Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Messages:
    821
    Location:
    Germany
    For me, it's a no brainer in cities with two or more granary ressources and a few hills/forests nearby. +4:c5food: is the best early production (!) bonus you can get and it's usually my first building in those cities.

    Everything else depends on the situation. If you go Tradition + Finisher, it should be a priority. If you want to stay at ~4 cities, it's a good (early) choice, too.
    If you expand like crazy, some fast happiness buildings and units/workers are probably more important.
     
  11. vexing

    vexing knows

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2010
    Messages:
    2,668
    just to clarify it's +1 food to wheat, deer, banana. if there are two of those tiles i'll definitely go for an early granary.
     
  12. Strategist83

    Strategist83 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2005
    Messages:
    625
    The Granary is one of the 'best' buildings in the game for how much it offers at such little production cost. It sounds to me like you may not be utilizing it optimally: It isn't just for growing a city faster but can also be used to increase production greatly when used in conjunction with a hill tile and as such should almost always be one of the first buildings to go up in a newly founded city. The base +2 food alone is good enough to feed a citizen working a hill tile rather than a food tile. The default city governor is extremely food-focused (often much more than what is reasonable) and you'll be required to manually assign a citizen to work the hill tile. You are in this way essentially converting the +2 food into +2 production (or more). Typically, the production invested into the Granary 'pays for itself' much faster than any other production building.

    So, Granaries are useful even if you're building a wide empire.
     
  13. blightmoon

    blightmoon Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 25, 2011
    Messages:
    75
    Thanks for that. I'm playing with TBC so that's wheat, bananas, sugar and spice for me. :)
     
  14. Antarion

    Antarion Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 24, 2004
    Messages:
    333
    the problem with wide empires is the maintance and the time it takes to build a granary. i rather manage my small cities (just pop 1-2 per city max 4 with circus) with more workers. often you will get 5-6 production from one hill with mine and base tile with republic no need to growth even bigger, rather build a colosseum (if playing pure liberty rexing)
     
  15. MadDjinn

    MadDjinn Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,511
    random aside: Stone is the best production tile in the game. (on grass) 2 food, 4 hammers vs mined hill at 4 hammers. (at Chemistry. Before chemistry, you need the Stoneworks to make them even, but then you also get +1 happy.)

    this. two or more of any of the types is enough to make me want to build a granary.

    Deer on a forest hill is the best - chop the forest and build the granary. You drop to 2 food there, but gain +1 production. So the tile at least pays for itself. (almost literally as you chop the forest for the granary)

    Well, that's your problem right there.
     
  16. blightmoon

    blightmoon Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 25, 2011
    Messages:
    75
    I definitely agree that it is quite useful for new cities, but I think for the very first city, I feel like there's just too many more alternatives that ought to take priority.

    Yes, its true that it frees up a lot of hammers once it's built. However, I feel like for the initial city, I'd rather spend those earlier hammers on a worker, warrior, a library (for NC), or on a settler. Then get a maritime CS, maybe two. Then take the granary when it takes quite just a few turns to make. Unless, I have 3 bonus food.

    Or maybe I should try even at 2 bonus food as vexing suggests.
     
  17. Martin Alvito

    Martin Alvito Real men play SMAC

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2010
    Messages:
    2,313
    A start like that more or less demands building a Granary and going somewhat vertical initially, irrespective of other considerations.

    The problem with the early Granary always was that it was worthless if you went horizontal and spammed Settlers. Since the game refuses to let you quickly go horizontal on Deity due to the DoW dogpile, the Granary is now a much more attractive build. If you have a single Wheat/Deer/Banana, you have to at least think about building it. At two or more, you should go Pottery first and immediately build a Granary after the initial Scout series (ruins on) or Monument (ruins off).

    This can be somewhat frustrating when playing Catherine as she gets a lot of Granary starts but would prefer to go Animal Husbandry first. In my experience, Pottery -> AH is the better play if you hit the jackpot on tiles buffed by a Granary.
     
  18. Lichgate

    Lichgate Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2011
    Messages:
    6
    I would always build a Granary if 2 or more tiles benefit it, regardless of whatever strategy I'm going for. +4 or more food is just too good to pass up.

    As for your protests against building it early, instead of making a warrior, or even a worker, building a granary will pay for itself in no time by significantly increasing the amount of workable tiles in your city. Within 10-15 turns after you finish a granary, you'll be able to save several turns on either a wonder (NC/GL), or on building your library, warrior, worker, etc. Here is an instance where I would build a Granary early (Diety Difficulty)...

    If I had multiple wheat in a city, I would build the following (most of the time):

    Scout
    Worker
    Granary (foregoing Monument until after NC)
    Warrior
    GL
    Warrior
    Settler
    Warrior
    Library if no GL after Settler
    NC (buying Library in second city)

    Generally, I would go pottery, writing, mining, AH or Masonry (depending on stone/marble)

    Tradition + Wonder bonus policy should give you a good chance of getting the GL, even on Diety.
     
  19. lilnev

    lilnev Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2006
    Messages:
    949
    The value of the granary depends on the amount of food it'll produce, and how badly you need food (with other strong food tiles providing a good surplus, the granary is less important). I'll always build it early for two or more resources, often for one. If it's just the base 2 food, it's still a reasonable investment if I've got the time/hammers, but a much lower priority.

    In the capital, I often build it before the library, after some units (I often go to Writing ~4th, after a couple of luxury techs). Scout-scout-worker-warrior/monument-granary-... might be a typical build order; obviously it varies a lot depending on the map, hut-luck, SP choices, dangerous neighbors, etc.
     
  20. Deau

    Deau Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2011
    Messages:
    1,367
    Location:
    Quebec, Can
    Petition signed for the any 2 of these involves an early granary. While some people seem to think of it as only "food", the food gain can be turned into production as well so in many cases where you have 2+ wheat/deer/bananas mixed, the granary allows to work 2 mines...it then pays it's own cost in turns very quickly...

    I rarely build it in the late game as I want the extra growth when the cities are small, not when they're already big and +2 per turn is a marginal gain in your cities' next growth.

    It is a godly building for Iawatha due to his UB & starting bias (often deers, also often lacks heavy food tiles, allows to work a bunch of boosted forests)
     

Share This Page