GRCs, NHS, and Being a Transgender Adult in the UK

IglooDame

Enforcing Rule 34
Supporter
Retired Moderator
Joined
Oct 2, 2003
Messages
23,433
Location
Igloo, New Hampshire
Someone in a previous thread brought up the existence in the UK of the 2004 Gender Recognition Act. Under it, a person self-identifying as transgender may apply to the Gender Recognition Panel to receive a Gender Recognition Certificate, or GRC. That cert allows people to get a birth, marriage (unless clergy in the Church of England decline), or death certificate showing their correct gender, and it provides protection from gender-based employment discrimination. The application must include evidence of living "full-time" in one's correct gender for two years, and two separate diagnoses of gender dysphoria from a medical doctor and a psychologist, or two doctors (both must be registered in the UK). And a diagnosis of gender dysphoria is also necessary in order to start HRT or be considered for gender-affirming surgery (which is your facial or naughty-bits adjustment).

Now for example in the US, diagnoses of gender dysphoria and initial treatments such as HRT have become relatively easy to come by for adults. In the UK, there's the NHS. This video, while quite long, is very entertaining (the references are to Joseph Heller's Catch-22 book/movie), and more to the point has something of a deep exploration into the NHS gender treatment process, from the perspective of a patient-turned-investigative-journalist. Or rather, the NHS waiting-list process to be considered eligible to begin the NHS gender-treatment process. In case you weren't aware, wait times to get appointments with someone who is willing to issue a written diagnosis of gender dysphoria (spoiler alert: one's GP typically declines to provide this diagnosis) are measured in years, not weeks or months. Sometimes there are waiting lists to get on the appointment waiting list.

So my question to OT is, what good is it doing anyone in the UK to maintain such a severe bottleneck on diagnoses and treatments for transgender adults? Surely preventing just-convicted cismale rapists from taking advantage of low thresholds on official recognition to get sentenced to women's prisons cannot be the only factor. A law requiring someone to demonstrate eligibility for a GRC at the time of their crime in order to receive consideration for prison selection would neatly settle that without impacting every other transgender person in the UK. While the NHS is famously being cut to the bone, adding merely ten doctors would allow ten thousand diagnoses and initiations of treatment per year, probably clearing the backlog within a couple years. It is arguable that the NHS expends more in resources denying appointments and treatment to existing transgender patients.

So... Why the GRC barrier/filter? Why the (if not deliberate then at least criminally negligent) structural scarcity of NHS diagnoses and treatment? Who is supposed to be helped by such delays in the recognition or medical assistance to so many transgender adults in England?

(Yes, I am specifically talking about adults, to avoid sidetracks into whether children should be assisted in the same way.)
 
The UK is so committed to this weird hoop jumping that the government there is now considering not recognising the genders of people who are citizens of more normal countries that just allow people change their documents without a big issue. They're even letting it risk the Union because Scotland legislated being more normal regarding this.
 
So my question to OT is, what good is it doing anyone in the UK to maintain such a severe bottleneck on diagnoses and treatments for transgender adults?

The only "good" (read that as being massively sarcastic on my part) it does is to allow politicians and medical practitioners who are bigoted toward the T portion of LGBT people to force them to jump through hoops in the hopes that they will:

1. Give up

2. Die (this is how Canada treats a lot of vulnerable minorities including indigenous, veterans, seniors, terminally ill who want MAID, etc.)

3. Get so fed up that they'll move and become "some other country's 'problem'"

4. But the main "good" that comes from this cruelty is that they are pandering to their voter base, stockholders, donors, and whoever else gives them money, to ensure that they keep their cushy jobs and income.

Welcome to left-wing Canadian cynicism, 'cause that's how it is here, with a variety of vulnerable minority groups.
 
The only "good" (read that as being massively sarcastic on my part) it does is to allow politicians and medical practitioners who are bigoted toward the T portion of LGBT people to force them to jump through hoops in the hopes that they will:

1. Give up

2. Die (this is how Canada treats a lot of vulnerable minorities including indigenous, veterans, seniors, terminally ill who want MAID, etc.)

3. Get so fed up that they'll move and become "some other country's 'problem'"

4. But the main "good" that comes from this cruelty is that they are pandering to their voter base, stockholders, donors, and whoever else gives them money, to ensure that they keep their cushy jobs and income.

Welcome to left-wing Canadian cynicism, 'cause that's how it is here, with a variety of vulnerable minority groups.

Hasn't gone that far here thankfully. Think our first trans MP was elected 1999 and the right did some dog whistles last election and got routed.

You've opened my eyes on Canada anyway. Every country has it's dirty little secrets including NZ.
 
Hasn't gone that far here thankfully. Think our first trans MP was elected 1999 and the right did some dog whistles last election and got routed.

You've opened my eyes on Canada anyway. Every country has it's dirty little secrets including NZ.

I should clarify that I'm the left-wing Canadian cynic (I've been politically aware since the mid-1970s, so I think I've earned it). Right-wing cynicism is doing everything on the list I enumerated, but either spinning it as something positive (there really are gullible idiots who believe that) or they fall back on blaming Justin Trudeau.
 
I should clarify that I'm the left-wing Canadian cynic (I've been politically aware since the mid-1970s, so I think I've earned it). Right-wing cynicism is doing everything on the list I enumerated, but either spinning it as something positive (there really are gullible idiots who believe that) or they fall back on blaming Justin Trudeau.

Americanisms are sneaking in here as well.
 
NHS is awful and people are waiting year+ for medical treatment in general (my gf's daughter seems to be going deaf, has horrible congestion, snoring, sleep apnea and her first appointment w ear, nose and thorat doctor is a year out).

Process sounds tedious. Let people be whoever the f they want and marry whoever. Regarding rape and jail putting rapists in solitary confinement til they die would solve that issue
 
So... Why the GRC barrier/filter? Why the (if not deliberate then at least criminally negligent) structural scarcity of NHS diagnoses and treatment? Who is supposed to be helped by such delays in the recognition or medical assistance to so many transgender adults in England?

There is an arrogance that "The State Knows Better" and thus a threshold of personal need Vs the NHS has been created.

The private system does exist within the UK, If someone wishes to "jump the queue" and has the means, that is available I believe? Or does that still have a 2 year wait for access?
 
Medical Assistance In Dying.
I figured, yeah. Seems quick and easy, no one asks to be born, letting people die w dignity should be a top priority of any civilized nation

There is an arrogance that "The State Knows Better" and thus a threshold of personal need Vs the NHS has been created.
In a socialized medical system could it not be possible to prioritize based on perceived need?
 
I figured, yeah. Seems quick and easy, no one asks to be born, letting people die w dignity should be a top priority of any civilized nation
It should be, but I'd be derailing this thread to say more, so we can discuss it in a different thread if you're interested.
 
In a socialized medical system could it not be possible to prioritize based on perceived need?

It is. Those who govern have decided there isn't really a need for state sponsored aid to transition until "proven" with the hoops Igloo mentions. I am not saying I support this position, just that is exists.

If anyone wants to help my friend who is currently raising ~£8000 for "top" surgery, please PM me!
 
The ongoing problems with the NHS are a deliberate, long-running attempt by the Tories to destroy faith in the NHS by cutting funding and allowing the entire edifice to collapse around our ears. Likewise, with the failure of Brexit no longer a reliable wedge issue, the culture war (with trans rights as the brightest flame) is essentially the only remaining Tory wheeze with which to cling onto power.

So, no, it doesn't serve anyone other than the Government to have a bottleneck on any medical procedures, and if they are especially vile to trans people, a good chunk of people will likely be cheering them on.
 
I figured, yeah. Seems quick and easy, no one asks to be born, letting people die w dignity should be a top priority of any civilized nation
I am not taking a side on the matter, but I will say this: one of the points of contention in Canada is that the expansion of this program may disproportionately affect the disabled who are without the means to receive care, whether on their own accord or with state aid, and this expansion is therefore tantamount to a stealth form of eugenics. Canadian policymakers have in some sense admitted to this tacitly, citing some reduced costs for the government in providing the above-mentioned state aid.

I don’t intend to discuss it further and think I did an OK job here of summarizing where some of the opposition comes from.
 
I am not taking a side on the matter, but I will say this: one of the points of contention in Canada is that the expansion of this program may disproportionately affect the disabled who are without the means to receive care, whether on their own accord or with state aid, and this expansion is therefore tantamount to a stealth form of eugenics. Canadian policymakers have in some sense admitted to this tacitly, citing some reduced costs for the government in providing the above-mentioned state aid.

I don’t intend to discuss it further and think I did an OK job here of summarizing where some of the opposition comes from.

There's another thread to discuss this; let's not annoy the mods, guys...
 
This video, while quite long, is very entertaining (the references are to Joseph Heller's Catch-22 book/movie), and more to the point has something of a deep exploration into the NHS gender treatment process, from the perspective of a patient-turned-investigative-journalist. Or rather, the NHS waiting-list process to be considered eligible to begin the NHS gender-treatment process. In case you weren't aware, wait times to get appointments with someone who is willing to issue a written diagnosis of gender dysphoria (spoiler alert: one's GP typically declines to provide this diagnosis) are measured in years, not weeks or months. Sometimes there are waiting lists to get on the appointment waiting list.

I just want to say that Abigail Thorn puts out some damn fine philosophy content and her channel (Philosophy Tube) is definitely worth checking out for any of the philosophically minded members out there. Good stuff.
 
The private system does exist within the UK, If someone wishes to "jump the queue" and has the means, that is available I believe? Or does that still have a 2 year wait for access?
There are quite a few private transgender clinics in the UK so for those with the funds the UK is no worse than the US, and although the publicly funded transgender care in the UK is under pressure both financially and politically it does exist. What provision is there in the US for transgender patients who can't afford to pay?
 
There are quite a few private transgender clinics in the UK so for those with the funds the UK is no worse than the US, and although the publicly funded transgender care in the UK is under pressure both financially and politically it does exist. What provision is there in the US for transgender patients who can't afford to pay?

I can't speak for more than the last couple years, but we lately have some "informed consent clinics" - typically 'sexual health clinics' and as often as not they're Planned Parenthood or similar also providing abortion services. They sliding-scale based on ability to pay (going down to zero if necessary), and will provide "gender dysphoria diagnosis" from MDs for those that need it (including for health insurance companies) and prescriptions for HRT; the latter can be price-reduced via things like GoodRx which as an example dropped the cost of a month's worth of my Estradiol from $150 retail to $45 last time I was at the pharmacy - I'm off health insurance for the last month since my employer went out of business and I've not found a new job yet. There's also Medicaid (if you're not in Florida, anyway - did that actually go through yet?) but I've no familiarity with that.
 
Top Bottom