Great Builders--Settle or not?

[jayhawklaw]

I used to settle my great builders no matter what, thinking that the production it would save me over the long-run would be more valuable than building any one specific structure, including a wonder.

Experience had proved different. I tend to try and get a wonder, if one that won't obsolete quickly is available. I love getting Shakespeare's Theater early and have never regretted putting that in a city with a great builder. Late in the game I almost always use it to build Manhattan Project or Military Industrial Complex to help me wipe out the tech/cultural/economic leader if it doesn't happen to be me.

What do you all do with your great builders?

 

[Ki Yote]

I rarely ever settle great builders unless I get one real early in the game. I don't like settling great people at all unless they are necessary in the city because I hate the threat of war for them... It's easier to use them and have peace than to settle them then have a computer declare war because they want them. IMO

 

[Kadazzle]

I always settle my early GPs. When I get great scientists, I always settle them, no matter what. For great Merchants, I settle the first one in my gold city, then the others I always use for gold, unless I have another gold city. Humanitarians, again, I wait until I expand (Never settle) then once I'm done expanding, use it to get the population bonus. Same generally goes for Great Thinkers, I wait until I get my culture up then convert a city to my civ.

It seems to me the only GP I always settle is a great leader, because upgrading future units, is always better then upgrading the units you have at the moment, because you can just pump out more units with cool bonuses. (Getting Veteran Tanks with Infiltration, Blitz and March is fun!)

 

[Smirk]

I always use great builders and always settle great leaders. It doesn't matter where you are in the game there is always a great wonder that be a huge benefit. Early game something like Colossus or EIC is huge, you've basically won the game. The former isn't always true when Egypt gets it early as the city is not always well-suited.

I see no use at all for using the great leader. All you need is one or two barracks to build veterans and then join that vet with 2 non-vets for a vet army. The AI does it, but then the AI rushes Pottery with scientists.


The others are more variable depending on the situation. I'll easily rush some science, especially stuff like Corporation, or Industrialization. But I've rushed other things like unit techs for easy domination wins. Doing this to coincide with building the Leo's is huge, nothing like running tanks over archers or spearman.

I did hate to expend merchants because they give so little early on, and can easily produce 100-300g per turn in a proper gold city. But you only need one or two of these for an easy gold victory. The artists are fairly useless in most cases, if they were able to give city conversions in more situations I would like them more.

 

[Kadazzle]

I gave a perfect point for why there's a use for the Great Leader in my post. Having a Great Leader in your production city is very, very helpful, especially in the late-game. Like I said above, I pumped out 2-3 tanks per turn in my production city on Deity. With doing so, I could get March, Infiltration and Blitz all on one unit, without having to fight a single fight. (Got Veteran from Barracks) I think it's rather obviously that people would want a March, Infiltration, Blitz and Veteran tank army, rather then a Veteran tank army.

 

[Hertsh]

I gave a perfect point for why there's a use for the Great Leader in my post. Having a Great Leader in your production city is very, very helpful, especially in the late-game. Like I said above, I pumped out 2-3 tanks per turn in my production city on Deity. With doing so, I could get March, Infiltration and Blitz all on one unit, without having to fight a single fight. (Got Veteran from Barracks) I think it's rather obviously that people would want a March, Infiltration, Blitz and Veteran tank army, rather then a Veteran tank army.

You misunderstand. What Smirk said was that he see no use in "using" the Great Leaders, i.e. it is better to settle them. In other words you are saying the same thing.

I agree, with great leaders the obvious best thing is to settle them. My problem is, how do I get them? I haven´t found the key to unlocking a great leader. For example, in the game I played yesterday I got to Great Scientists in a row without having great science cities (I was 2nd in science in the game), but I had one city with great production (I think it was 64). Anyone who knows the logic for getting the different GPs?

 

[Kadazzle]

I believe it has to do with the techs you research, and what type of buildings you're building. When I tend to be researching Techs like Writing and Building a Library, I get a great Scientist. If I'm researching Iron Working and building Legion armies, I tend to get Great Leaders.

 

[bryce00]

Believe it or not I had never thought of using great builders to do wonders.

I got a great leader yesterday playing as monty. that was pretty fun actually.

 

[Kadazzle]

Sorry about the misunderstanding, Smirk.

More about Great Builders, the first 3 I get I always use to build the Hanging Gardens, Samurai Castle and Leonard's Workshop. After that, I settle them to get the production buildings done quicker.

I actually got a Great Leader today, and instead of grouping up my Veteran Knights, I sent one off and killed off the stragglers. Getting 2 promotions for that one knight + the other one's form the other knights, I had Medic, Blitz, Infiltration and March. Pretty good if you ask me!

 

[Smirk]

I lean towards Trade Fair, EIC and Colossus. But I lean heavily towards early gold production, well I balance that with production and science, but I like at least one 100+g producing city around the time I have catapults or knights, depending which sort of warring I am doing.

Hanging Gardens, Samurai Castle and Leonard's Workshop are usually mid to end game wonders for me. They are all great, but are either more useful later (Leo's/Gardens) or actually has a negative effect like the Castle where if you've out-teched the enemy you have little chance of getting Great Generals or upgrades.

Kadazzle, I assume you meant Great General and I agree. I pretty much retire that unit for future battles, but will often move them around in any given turn to assist multiple stacks of units attacking. This is great for city approach when the enemy is fielding troops to counterattack. That +50% is rare but a welcome addition.

I've been keeping track of the leaders, each leader is associated with a tech, but they are general, you can get any science leader in any age for instance. I've yet to even the second great leader, all I ever see is David.

 

[NaZdReG]

I say definately burn them.

yes the hammers savings over time is great.. but the power of a wonder over time is greater because they generate culture. which gets you to more great people faster.

this is especially true if you can rush shakespear's theatre.. and double your culture instantly.

not to mention.. late game or saved they are just devestating. free oxford? why yes thank you. its just too powerful to be able to create the wonder within the same turn and take it even if someone else is building it

NaZ

 

[xJD_1866x]

I believe it has to do with the techs you research, and what type of buildings you're building. When I tend to be researching Techs like Writing and Building a Library, I get a great Scientist. If I'm researching Iron Working and building Legion armies, I tend to get Great Leaders.

yes, it seems there are 2 things which govern which great person you get, firstly each great person is linked to a tech(check out the hall of glory to see what to which) and if you are first to unlock a tech(get the tech bonus) then that G P is the next one you will recieve. secondly if you have big gold cities you get more merchants, more science, you get scientist, lots of upgrade units or units beating better units then great leader...... now these 2 things do seem to put them in a queue of G P as you dont always get the same G P from monarchy and invention's bonuses....

 

[Kadazzle]

yes, it seems there are 2 things which govern which great person you get, firstly each great person is linked to a tech(check out the hall of glory to see what to which) and if you are first to unlock a tech(get the tech bonus) then that G P is the next one you will recieve. secondly if you have big gold cities you get more merchants, more science, you get scientist, lots of upgrade units or units beating better units then great leader...... now these 2 things do seem to put them in a queue of G P as you dont always get the same G P from monarchy and invention's bonuses....

That makes sense, so you're saying that every first tech you research puts that type of great person on queue, but if you get Monarchy or Invention, it gives you the next one in line, and not a specific type? Make sense, thanks.

 

[xJD_1866x]

That makes sense, so you're saying that every first tech you research puts that type of great person on queue, but if you get Monarchy or Invention, it gives you the next one in line, and not a specific type? Make sense, thanks.

yeah you got it its really noticeable in the single player where i tend to follow the same early tech paths and tend to get the same GP's every game and then when playing with aztecs or germans where i deliberately battle a lot to upgrade unit you will get a lot more Great Leaders...

 

[M002]

I tend to ALWAYS settle great people, but be sure to protect them with spies

Great Leaders I settle 100% of the time, it makes impenetrable defense for defense units and unbeatable attack for those units when combined with a baracks

Great Scientists I settle 98% of the time. The Science boost is very valuable and = to democracy for a single city. So you can still have a lot of science but be able to declare war. Or you could combine great scientists with wonders liek Colossus and EIC and maybe rush a university to create a beast city and basically win the game through perks

Great Explorers - These are the only ones that I almost Never settle. Whenever I get them I sigh, and Usually save them for a gold city. If I get them very early in the game, I ALWAYS save them for the Modern Era for the 400 Gold. Same with the 7 cities of gold Wonder and Knights Templar. Wait until at least the Industrial Era when its worth something

Great Humanitarians, I used to always use them, but now I realize just how great they are if you settle them. Settling them makes your cities grow as if their population were bunnies gone wild. If you add this with The Zulu medieval bonus + aqueduct + harbor + any resource of food; you = like new population every 3 turns. Beast cities!
However, if you have like 20 cities and its late in the game, thats when its better to use them.

Now, my favorite, Great builders. If you get one very early, put it in your most promising production city, and it will be a very good production city. If you have a hill early in the game, and you get the construction bonus, you are in good hands for the rest of the game. My favorite especially is getting Communism First + Industrialization = 67 resources for a factory. Also, half cost libraries for greek and chinese + great builder = 10 Resources for a library, thats = to a warrior! However, using them strategically is important to, if your'e ahead in science and unlocked a wonder no one will out date for a long time like EIC or Trade Fair of Troyes, then build it. And if you're far behind and you need help, especially in a multiplayer game, Rush the Manhatten Project. You can threaten over the Mich and win through terrorism. Very Fun

Lastly, Great thinkers/artists: I always settle them. Your terrirory will BOOM. In addition its tough to get flipped and it will save a doomed city and maybe even flip another city. Converting cities seems fun at first, but often the city that you can convert is the most recent city built in the entire game. Therefore it has a crap population, and almost nothing in it, therefore its very tough to defend especially if its on the otherside of the world. If its right next to you, then definetly settle him in the closest city, and it will flip through natural causes + some wonders.

GREAT PEOPLE RULE!!!
P.S. - stealing them is very fun, but being stolen from SUCKS. So be safe, use a spy.

 

[steeemer]

I almost always say "let me think about it" initially. This allows me a chance to evaluate what my current position is and which decision is the best.

Getting a tech immediately can be big, but on a few occassions I had a City with massive science early on, which I dramatically increased by settling. (as one example)

As key point for new players. You can wait and then make changes before activating the superpower. For instance, if you are building a library and it offers to build it immediately that may not seem like a very good deal. You could however change production to a wonder that might ordinarily take a ton of hammers. After switching, activate the super power to finish the wonder immediately.

As with most elements of this game, there is no "always does this" that always applies.

 

[Padma]

As we frequently say here, the answer to virtually every Civ strategy question is, "it depends."

 

[steeemer]

You misunderstand. What Smirk said was that he see no use in "using" the Great Leaders, i.e. it is better to settle them. In other words you are saying the same thing.

I agree, with great leaders the obvious best thing is to settle them. My problem is, how do I get them? I haven´t found the key to unlocking a great leader. For example, in the game I played yesterday I got to Great Scientists in a row without having great science cities (I was 2nd in science in the game), but I had one city with great production (I think it was 64). Anyone who knows the logic for getting the different GPs?

I feel your pain. The other day I found Confucious and got two explorers for 200 gold. Whoop tee doo!

 

[ericball]

Just to confirm - Great People only count towards Cultural Victory if you settle them, right? So although +1 pop/city is great in the late game, it may be better to settle that Humanist in case you need to beat another Civ's Domination or Tech victory.

I also find Great Builders & Humanists are good to settle in cities with low shield (I mean hammer) and food production respectively. So if I have a city in the mountains, I'll settle a Humanist there to boost food and thereby population and make the city grow so it will use more of those mountains.

 

[Dumanios]

It's been some time since I last played Civ Rev,but if I remember right,It works kind of like that Eric.