Great Commanders?

[zup]

Since I can no longer copy my great commander from military strategy with blood of the phoenix, how can I reliably get more of them? The chances of them being born are way too low. Perhaps give them through the same mechanic vanilla bts does? I got plenty of units and heroes in need of xp gain and strength boosts.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

I second this, I miss the great commanders gained with XP from vanilla, that's one of the best things in the orbi modmod and I'd love for it to be in FF as well

 

[Sarisin]

I say amen to this as well. I think the Great Commanders are the most difficult to get. As you say, when you play a civ without the Raiders trait it is tough having all those 100XP units and still fighting barbs while getting nothing.

There is always Valor, but that comes much later when you have the Archmage usually.

I guess you just have to go out and declare war on a civ for the XP to count.

But it would be nice if there was some mechanism to make the Great Commanders show up more.

 

[zup]

As it is, raiders is the best trait. Even after I modified barbarian and animal exp limit to 10k. I rarely use my experienced units for attack unless the odds are >99.9%. So the base exp is 1, 100% boost is awesome. Raiders is especially awesome for Cassiel. I had a monster axeman hero (no weapon promo yet) who could attack 100 exp Orthus with 98% odds.

 

[Charybdis]

If you pop form of the titans/heroic epic/third commander wonder.. forget its name.

You can sometimes score another couple of great commanders that way.

 

[xienwolf]

Main way to get them easily is taking the Dragon's Hoard.

 

[Vehem]

Basilica (Order Only)
Command Post (most civs need a commander to create one first though)
Form of the Titan (+2 GPP)
Heroic Epic
National Epic
Ride of the Nine Kings (+2 GPP)
Dragon's Horde (+2 GPP)
Tower of Complacency (Octopus Overlords only)
Tower of Eyes
Statue of Valor (Dural Only)
Statue of Courage (Dural Only)
Statue of Loyalty (Dural Only)

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Looking at that, Dural under Order seem to be a fairly decent way to generate them. XP generated great generals isn't something we've looked at yet - if we were to use it though it probably wouldn't be as simple as "create a great commander when you have enough XP".

 

[MaxAstro]

The main problem is that all of those are very situational wonders, are spread out among the tech tree, and mostly only give +1 GPP. If you are running a specialist economy, Great Commanders are almost impossible to get with any kind of reliable chance, since there is no specialist that generates them.

Actually, that in itself might be the answer: What about adding a new kind of specialist that gives Great Commander GPP? Perhaps the specialist could give +1XP to military units per, or a similar thematic boost? Just being able to assign a specialist that generates Great Commanders would be a huge improvement; IMO, Great Commanders aren't nearly powerful enough to warrant how hard to get they are.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

So you want to have some sort of Drill Sargent specialist? I guess that could work. You could make Training Yards and other military building providing slots for these instead of free xp. Order Temples would naturally provide them too.


I also think that Great Commanders need to be able to be settled, like Great Generals can in BtS.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

I also think that Great Commanders need to be able to be settled, like Great Generals can in BtS.

I second that

 

[Mailbox]

Then the Sidar wouldn't need any other type of GP

 

[MaxAstro]

Being able to settle Great Commanders for something like a XP boost to all units would certainly encourage me to use them as something other than a poor man's Orthus' Axe. XD

 

[Vehem]

Right now I'm kinda leaning toward the "Generals and Commanders" mod that Grey Fox was working on. Having the "Great Commander" be a unit that takes to the battle field, provides benefits of more than just "free xp" and can be targeted by the enemy (who better to attack with assassins?).

Upon creation, you could select a "trait promotion" for the unit (Siege Expert, Fearless, Tyrant, Caring Commander, Master Archer, Zealot etc), each of which causes units in his stack to AutoAcquire relevant promotions.

Certain traits would allow the commander to be "merged" with a bodyguard unit (traits that basically allow the commander to take to the field and fight himself) - doing it as a unit-merge allows you to assign your best unit of the era to defend the commander so that his strength is appropriate.

Other traits would be less directly combat related, but may have additional levels to gain as the unit levels up (a Siege Expert may grant City Raider I initially, but later allows the construction of Battering Rams or even Trebuchets, a caring commander would boost heal rates initially, but later may be able to use a spell similar to "Heal").

===

There are a lot of different options that don't rely on existing mechanics - this is just one. I don't think having a great commander as another type of specialist is the most interesting way to do it. Very easy to implement that way - but I think there are probably better things we can come up with.

Ideally, I'd like to use the completed GF version - check this thread for details. What I mentioned above is just a very simplified version of that (one which I could probably implement in a weekend).

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

I agree that having great commanders as just another specialist doesn't sound very exciting. grey fox's mod looks awesome, I like the idea a lot.

how are great commanders generated in there though? I don't think he clearly stated that. personally, I still like the idea of great commanders spawning from combat xp like in vanilla

edit: btw, does gray fox's mod work so that some leaders become available only as great commanders? I don't like that tbh, having different leaders available for one civ is good as it allows players to play that civ with a different playstyle. I'd rather have it work like the scions handle alexi and the risen emperor, so that depending on the leader you choose , you have a different selection of great commanders available.

 

[xienwolf]

Each had a unique way to appear. Some you start with, some need to be quested. Others are from special features on the map, and a few from being first to a Tech. Could also have a couple be from Combat XP

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

wow, that sounds great. I really like that idea, as long as all the leaders remain selectable to lead a civ

 

[Jabie]

So you want to have some sort of Drill Sargent specialist? I guess that could work. You could make Training Yards and other military building providing slots for these instead of free xp. Order Temples would naturally provide them too.

That was my first reaction too. A Tech or Trait prerequisite might also be an option.

 

[zup]

I created such specialist myself. It needs display refinement though. I made military state give unlimited of them as I did not want to bother with adjusting tons of buildings. Military state + crusade is cool!