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Great Diplomats, AI and Paper

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by civplayer33, Jan 18, 2019.

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What do you think of the proposed change (Paper increases only on expending the GD for Influence)?

Poll closed Mar 19, 2019.
  1. OK / Good

    5 vote(s)
    26.3%
  2. Opposed, instead we should tweak the AI to value Embassies more

    9 vote(s)
    47.4%
  3. Opposed, everything is fine now, nothing needs to change

    5 vote(s)
    26.3%
  4. Opposed, we should do something completely different (elaborate below please)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Minh Le

    Minh Le Chieftain

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    In my most recent game, I could only place 4 embassies even with statecraft and 1 GD was faith purchased. It was a game with Mongol so he ate quite a lot of city state but there were still about 10 CS in the game. I'd say AI sure know how to place embassy but I notice AI also used GD on CS I had Sphere of influence with. Maybe some improvement are needed.
     
  2. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch

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    GitHub that b, yo.

    G
     
  3. Rekk

    Rekk Chieftain

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    From what I can tell, he's talking about Leondegrace's scenario? His supporting arguments don't cover StevenV's issue at all.
     
  4. civplayer33

    civplayer33 Chieftain

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    Ah yeah that's possible...no quotes though :p
     
  5. cammcken

    cammcken Chieftain

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    Why not simply make Embassies permanent and non-replaceable? I don't know if the code supports it, but game-wise I think we can agree on that. You can still deny the vote by conquering (and defending), it's a decent tile to work, and it prevents that exploit.

    I don't have enough experience in Diplomatic victories to have much feedback, but I have noticed that the AI who spend GD for influence are usually very effective at keeping their alliances, to the point that one could argue they have more votes from alliances than they could have gained by embassies. In my current game, I'm going Industry / Order in hilly terrain, plenty of excess production, yet because I didn't focus on GD points early enough I'm stuck with only three paper. Even my back-to-back assembly line of diplomatic units can barely maintain one CS alliance. All others get stolen by 2 or 3 AI Statecraft civs.
     
    vyyt likes this.
  6. civplayer33

    civplayer33 Chieftain

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    I'm a bit ambivalent on this, as I enjoy the minigame opportunity the current mechanics offer, but I wouldn't be strictly opposed, especially since the AI obviously has trouble with this.
    Did you pick Statecraft? If so, you should focus more on quests and use spies as well as Trade Routes more on CS and you should be fine; if you didn't pick Statecraft then it's no wonder you're having trouble keeping alliances...I mean, that's how it's supposed to be.
     
  7. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Chieftain

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    Its a bit sad the trade route policy didnt increase anymore with more policies. 1 Influence per turn is neglegible in later stages of the game, when the AI is mass spamming diplomats each generating 100+ influence. Also a decrease of 1 every turn for all CS influences seems also negligble, if one of your enemies already have 800+ influence on a CS you want to ally.
     
  8. civplayer33

    civplayer33 Chieftain

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    As someone who often goes for Diplomatic Victory I don't think it's negligible at all. Sure, it's not something so powerful you don't have to use any other methods but it does it's job and helps well enough. In mid game, for example, an Envoy may give about 60 Influence and takes a significant number of turns to produce. A normal CS will decrease your influence by 1 every turn; if you don't have the capacity to produce an Envoy right now because other important stuff needs to be produced, you can send a TR and keep the CS from falling below 60 that way (in Medieval the other civs won't have 800 Infuence with the CS...in my current game I'm in Information Era and 6 of my CS allies are held with less than 800 Influence); this will save you from having to produce an Envoy for that CS every 60 turns, which is probably around 10% of production time for one of your cities and in some circumstances CS TRs can have better yields than TRs with major civs.
     
  9. azum4roll

    azum4roll Chieftain

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    CS influence decays faster when it's higher.
     
  10. Enginseer

    Enginseer Salientia of the Community Patch Supporter

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    CS Influence increases to 1% of your current Influence over them when you have 1000+ influence. Pledging to Protect... this 1% can multiply if they are taking fire!
     
  11. civplayer33

    civplayer33 Chieftain

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    Just a little data point: Information Era, close to victory and I've managed to plant 11 CS Embassies with a total of 17 available CS, while the AIs have managed to plant either 0 or 1 (and 2 in only one case: Sweden). This is despite Siam being in the game and telling me multiple times how he wants to win Diplo Victory; he even sniped Big Ben from me to help him with that.

    As we can see so far in the voting, while my proposal has only 4 out of 17 votes, 12 / 17 think that there is a problem that needs to be solved, with the popular vote being tweaking the AI to value placing CS Embassies more.
    Spoiler crazyness :
    diplo_crazyness.jpg
     

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