Great Musicians and their tour management

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by stormtrooper412, Dec 19, 2014.

1. stormtrooper412Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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In my latest Culture attempt (which had to be reassigned to Science attempt due to an uncontrolled runaway, eh), I saved up a few Great Musicians. Anyway, I understand they are worth 10 times your tourism on Standard, which would explain why it was worth less on Quick, i.e. it's worth 6.7 times your tourism, right?

However, when I entered the foreign lands, the tour only yielded about 75% of its strength which, well, I'd like if someone were to explain why. Basically that was why I shifted to spaceship production

2. WinslingChieftain

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Great Musicians, unlike other great people, have their yield determined when they're created instead of when they're used. So, creating one when you have 50 tourism, saving him for a thousand years, and using him when you have 200 tourism still just gives you 50*10.

3. stormtrooper412Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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Don't take this the wrong way, but I *did* play this game so I knew *that*. Observe a screenshot of what I mean.

Now, 4227 : 6.7 = 630.895, that part checks out, my tourism output was about there.

However, it appears also that 4227 x 0.67 = 2832, which is the only explanation behind this (or their agents really demand massive cuts ). This is rather silly, basically if you play a Quick paced game, Great Musicians end up quite useless because they only bring 2832 : 631 = 4.48 times the amount of tourism you have??

I'd have to assume if you played a Marathon game, once you get to 630 tourism, your concert tour would be worth over 56000? Crikey!

edit: I'm fairly sure this exact method is used in calculating the yield of any great person bulb

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4. tpacChieftain

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Hmm. Are you sure the great musician's strength isn't always 10x tourism when he's created, and then just modified by the 'speed' factor when he does the tour?

Otherwise, that seems to be a bit of a bug if they are modified twice.

5. stormtrooper412Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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100% certain. Unless there's a tenet/ability/perk that I don't know that goes "all great people in other civilizations are born gimped"

I'm also certain this and similar issues would slide because nobody plays this game on Quick

6. TheMarshmallowBearBenelovent Chieftain of the BearKingdom

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I have played all of my games on Quick.

7. TheGuineaPigChieftain

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A lot of people aren't aware of this, but when you do a concert tour, that musician's "strength" is just a base figure: the tourism it gives is still affected by all the normal modifiers (trade routes, diplomats, ideologies, etc.).

What is likely the case is that you had a -34% modifier with the civ you were trying to influence.

8. stormtrooper412Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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That would have explained it, but I think that's not correct because

1. There was no -34% modifier, we had the same ideologies. A diplomat can't help with that. I only had +40% from Open Borders and +40% from Trade Route

2. Which, by that logic, would be worth 630 x 6.7 x 1.8 = 7597, which I certainly wouldn't complain against. But ok, if it didn't ADD to its base value but only modify it, it would still be 630 x 6.7 x 0.8 = 3376

9. SessyPrince

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it doesn't make sense...maybe a bug caused by mods?

10. stormtrooper412Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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I only have the DLCs and enhanced interface, I kind of consider InfoAddict a cheat

11. erisKing

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You're right.

Therefore, I run it all game long and never look. After the end game dialogue I use "one more turn" and open up InfoAddict. I do love the pretty graphs.

12. brewgodPrince

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I thought "open borders" was something you did not want to have. But to have a concert tour you need too. Does the Pro out way the Con???

13. BrowdDilettanteAdministrator

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For culture victory generally, you want the AI to give you open borders, but you do not want to grant open borders to the AI. Pay what it takes.

14. joncnunnSenior Java WizardModerator

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It's extremely rare though for the AI to actually be a threat to winning a cultural victory when you are going for it, so you might as well trade open borders for an open borders to greatly reduce the per turn cost.

15. reddishrecueDeity

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Great musicians make more in the tour management when the great musician is born during a time that you are make a lot of tourism per turn.

16. PrimacideSettler

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I generally avoid granting open borders due to the tourism as well as generally being overrun by a wandering AIs peaceful army. Do you find its a problem to grant open borders (betrayal, etc.) or am I just wasting 2 - 5 gpt on each civ?

17. reddishrecueDeity

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If you are making a lot more culture and tourism per turn than the ai then it is worth it to pay for the open borders. If the ai makes more culture or tourism than you it is not because if you ask for more than open borders the AI will usually not pay for open borders.

18. AckenDeity

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What is the problem ? The strength of the musician is 10 times the tourism: 4227

The value of the tour is speed dependent: 100% for standard or 67% for quick:
4227*0.67 = 2832

Unless you mean you were at 630 tourism per turn and therefore should be at 6300*0.67 ? In which case that sounds weird.

Edit: Ok that's what you meant sorry.
Have you verified it's not only a tooltip error (that the tourism added is really 2832 after doing it) ? Or that the musician really was created when you had 630 tourism ?

A lot of people aren't aware of this because this is false.

19. stormtrooper412Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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Verified: I loaded a save, here's what came up

Tourism per turn 612

GM strength 4100 = 612 x 10 x 0.67

Tour yield 2747 = 4100 x 0.67.

No difference if GM was faith bought or generated the normal way.

I am definitely going to play an Epic pace game and see how the numbers work there.

20. AckenDeity

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Strange its as if the quick modifier was applied twice, have you verified it's not only a tooltip error ?