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Great Patriotic War Comrades

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Completed Modpacks' started by Colwyn, Apr 22, 2004.

  1. Colwyn

    Colwyn Chieftain

    Joined:
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    It is June 22nd 1941 and you Joseph Stalin have just received the first reports about an invasion of the Soviet Union.

    Sounds familuar, well it is, if you ever played Red Front for Civ2.

    Now here is the Conquests version of the WW2 Eastern front war! played as the Soviet side only.


    http://www.civfanatics.net/downloads/civ3/scenarios/GPW2.zip(57.66 MB)

    * Pls note to delete music.txt from the redfront2 folder once you extract the zip file as this is in error.
    * Latest patch file attached as redfront2map*.zip replace exisiting versions with files within 24/6/04

    Development Notes

    A. As much Historical accuracy re the russo-german war
    B. Use of building and tech improvements to simulate events to guide the historical battle b/w both countries.
    C. Human player to be on the serious defensive for the first 2 years, stale mate for 3rd and on the offensive for the 4th/5th year.
    D. Tank/Plane units are expensive focusing on these too early and you will lose as inf units are the main unit type available until the ural factorys are up and running.
    E. Player feedback to reveal what changes to be made to AI to simulate its offensive ie giving extra units auto builds buildings etc.
    F. Russian tanks etc stronger ie att/defence but initially only green (1 or 2 hp) germans units 4 5 hp vets/elite.
    G. Use of Graphos's Save Game editor to change unit stats and 2 types of terrain reflection winter/summer months.
    G. Graphically interesting with a variety of decisons for the player to make off historical accuracy to see how it pans out.

    make sure you read the GPW2readme.doc file in the zip download.
     
  2. Colwyn

    Colwyn Chieftain

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    Note that the german units are vet/elite from their superior training/experience in the western war the previous years.

    Russian units while numerically superior are conscripts or regulars at best.
     
  3. Balam

    Balam Sacrificial Victim

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    Wow, that is a GREAT screenie. I can't wait to play! :cry: :goodjob:
     
  4. Bombur

    Bombur Chieftain

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    -I cannot wait to put my hands on this wonder!!!
     
  5. recon1591

    recon1591 Chieftain

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    U can pick this mod up at CDGroup.org in the Civ3 forums with a updated fixed Biq. till he gets it posted here as well.
     
  6. Colwyn

    Colwyn Chieftain

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    - That one hasn't been updated yet but

    the lastest is now available at civfanatics to download.
     
  7. Klyden

    Klyden Chieftain

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    I saw this and was really excited as I have been working on a mod on the same subject and this one does a good job on a lot of things.

    A couple quick notes:

    1. If you don't have the music, you have to move or get rid of the music file under text or the game crashes.

    2. I don't think ships should have lethal land bombardment. The German/Finnish navy was blasting helpless ground units off the face of the map right off the bat.
     
  8. Colwyn

    Colwyn Chieftain

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    Thanks I've made a note in the first post for people to delete the music.txt file in the redfront2 folder
     
  9. Bombur

    Bombur Chieftain

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    -Got an error message while loading the scenario:


    missing icon in "text\ pediaIcons.txt" TECH_DISTRICTS
     
  10. Colwyn

    Colwyn Chieftain

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    This would be b/c the files are in the wrong location, make sure you extract with folder names into the last conquest folder where the other *.biq scenarios are and their corresponding data directories

    ie

    Folder Conquests contains folders

    /Age of Discovery
    /Ancient Tresures
    /redfront2 (this needs to be here once extracted)
    and redfront*.biq file in root of conquests as well.
     
  11. Bombur

    Bombur Chieftain

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    -It worked. Thank you. Your scenario is simply wonderful!
     
  12. Klyden

    Klyden Chieftain

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    Let me first state that it is very easy to take the written word the wrong way and I intend no malice or hostile intent, but rather offer my findings and opinions in a constructive manor in the idea that this scenario (which has tremendous promise) becomes better. I will be playing a test game and will post results as I go along.

    Preliminary work: German OOB.

    Germany had 1 unit that started in Southern Finland. By agreement between the two governments, Southern Finland was considered a Finish theater and north and central Finland was considered a German theater. The Germans had little armor in Finland and certainly not in the south. Suggest dropping the motorized unit and tank and moving the rest to central/northern Finland.

    FW190's were not committed to the eastern front until the fall of 42. The few that were available were used primarily in France and in defence of the Reich against the incursions of the British. A few served in the Med.

    No German panzer/motorized forces were deployed with the 11th army in Rumania. These should be part of Army Group South. The 11th Army had a primarily defensive mission to open the campaign.

    Rumanian troops should not be at the Vet/Elite level for the most part. They have had no combat experience and should be a mix of green, regulars, and a few vets. Also, Rumania has troops not only in Hungary, but also close to Lvov as well. This is not historical and the Hungarians would have never tolerated Rumanian troops in Hungary. A quick note here is that Bucharest should be the capital over Tmisoara for Rumania.

    There are way too many Waffen SS units to start the game (I counted at least 13) along with too many Cav units (counted at least 5, including one in Norway). The Waffen SS had 4 front line combat units to start the campaign. A 3 regiment motorized infantry division was attached to each army group (German motorized infantry were normally 2 regiments during this period). In addition, LSSAH was a mech infantry unit attached to Army Group South. There was 1 Cav division attached to Army Group Center and it was withdrawn and disbanded early in the campaign.

    On the Luftwaffe mix. There were something like 23 Stuka units and 11 Ju-88 units. Assuming that Ju-88's also represent HE-111's (they should) this is not representative of what the Germans had for available air power on the eastern front. According to the information I have, the Germans had approximately 300 Stukas and 775 medium bombers to open the campaign with. Considering that there is not a ME 110 unit (about 100 started the campaign), some fudging in Stuka numbers might be good (after the initial onslaught, ME 110 served more as a ground support plane rather than fighter).

    I would not have Stuka units in the artic. Most of the Stuka units were either placed with Army Group Center or in the Med during this time period. Their range was simply too short to be effective in the Artic.

    I did some checking on the German production wants and the AI wants to build AA units. I am guessing they want it for the most part because it is cheap, offers AA defence and is a 6 point defender over the current 3 point milita that most cities have. The other issue for the Germans is they have no oil to begin with and while Rumania does have extra, they would not trade it to me under any circumstances, so that means the Germans are really crippled on what they can build.

    Some of the Rumanian infantry appear to be the same as the German 10-8-3's and the Rumanians had no infantry formations that were even close to German formations in that type of efficiency and quality.

    *edit* Spelling > me
     
  13. Klyden

    Klyden Chieftain

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    Game start:

    Russian first turn. I sell off everything I can in the border cities to fatten up the bank account and do "scorched earth" to the advancing Axis. I go for Motorized Infantry on turn 1 and although it puts me at -335 econ to get it in one turn, I have 1826 in the bank after selling off stuff.

    Axis destroy Kisniev and capture Bialystok, Petsamo, Kaunas, Kirovo, Vilinus, Brest-Litovsk, and Lvov. Some 88's attacked and looking at the stats I see why. Very offensive unit for an artillery piece and very little defense (18-2-1 I think). Might want to reconsider on that.

    The German/Finish navy blow up 3 Russian troops with lethal land bombardment.

    I notice the Civlopedia info is wrong on 45 and 76 AT guns along with 76 Arty. Shield costs on those are 40, 70, and 50 respectively.. not what the civlopedia entry says and the description was the same for everything. Also, what Stavka and Lenin's Tomb do is not descriped. Barracks say they put out Vet units, but they do not.

    For Science, IL4 Bomber and Basic Rocketry show as being able to be build before their pre-req.

    I decide to build workers to the east and 45mm AT guns closer to the front. I redeploy air force units to Kiev and Leningrad. The Baltic navy moves to concentrate in Leningrad and the Black Sea Fleet scoots to safety. I also try to quick build units near the front in cities that I think will be captured to further trash the cities down.

    Turn 2: Finns Destroy Vilpuri and Kitela. Germans capture Riga. I go for Patriotism 1 turn at -571 with 1415 in the bank. I manage to kill a German infantry and tank unit in counter attacks and pull back in good order elsewhere. The Red army is taking heavy losses, but not much can be done at this point.

    Turn 3: I go for Infantry Reinforcements when I find out I can't get the Siberians without them. Rumania destroys Odessa. Germans Capture Daugavpils and advance in strength in the Dneper bend and also around Kiev. The advance continues in the center with Germans showing up around Minsk. The German fleet continues to score on the Baltic coast against the Red Army. A Finn and several Germans advance south to Leningrad. I also lose my bomber out of Leningrad this turn, so that will hurt. The Germans assault Murmansk, and while it is holding so far, I have no way to reenforce it and figure it is a matter of time.

    I launch another small counter attack against depleted German units and loose one of my T-34's but also finish off some German armor. German armor casualties have been noticeble and I have managed to kill 4 or 5 either defending or counter attacking. The Axis have been very agressive attacking even with units not at full health.

    45 MM AT guns are starting to come into play and should hopefully slow things down. They are good cost effective units with 8 defense.

    I am also working on looking at new areas to settle at in the east to build additional cities.
     
  14. Klyden

    Klyden Chieftain

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    Turn 4: Germans launch a major bombing attack against Kiev and my fighters take heavy losses against the German bombers. I manage to give the Finns a bloody nose around Leningrad by killing a infantry unit and a mech unit. Also kill a depleted infantry unit next to Nikolayev.

    Turn 5: The Finn navy heads west for some reason. Rumania destroys Nikolayev. 4 more Russian fighters die against the German bombers. I loose 2 more units due to naval bombardment. Getting annoying. A German BB unit shows up and I am wondering what exactly this is supposed to represent as Tripitz was not yet in operation and Bismark was sunk in May of 41. At any rate, it used it's 2 hex bombard range to shell an inland city, but fortunately missed. Germans Capture Tarlu. I get Infantry Reinforcements and go for Partisan's in 2 turns at -215 cash with 1598 in the bank. Germans launch a very heavy assault on Kiev and Minsk. They hold this turn, but will fall next. 13 tank units in the Kiev area with lots of infantry as well. This appears to be the main effort. Murmansk holds again thanks to random number generator although it is slowly being shelled to pieces by the Axis navy. I discover that 76mm artillery has no movement factor. The German infantry that advances from Finland next to Leningrad is first introduced to the Red Fleet and then promptly get run over by a factory fresh T34 that gets elite status out of it. With the other losses to the Finns, the threat to Leningrad from the North should be about over.

    Turn 6. Kiev is destroyed. Glukhov, Minsk and Tallinn are all captured. I loose 5 units to naval bombardment. Enough of the lethal bombardment already. This is a major pita. Murmansk holds yet again and the northern Germans are about to be shot for incompetence. I launch a smallish counter attack in the Dneper bend and kill two depleted German tank units and the Finn T26 unit is destroyed by the Russian T26 unit. I also manage to sink a Finnish destroyer as well, but most of the Axis fleet is moving towards Leningrad. They cleaned out Tallinn and Narva of units.

    The Germans continue with a heavy push east of Kiev and I am in serious trouble there. The Germans seem to be somewhat weaker in the north, but still strong enough to continue to stay on the attack.

    Game notes:

    I know lethal land bombardment has been mentioned before, but will mention again. It needs to go.

    No German BB should be present and in fact, the Axis naval forces should be toned down a bit. Also, it should be known that the Russians had a large sub fleet based in Leningrad, but they were kept in check by mines until Finland withdrew from the war. The Russians had several battleships based in Leningrad and some in the Black Sea as well, yet they are not in the game.

    The 76mm artillery unit needs to be made moble.

    I know nothing can be done about razing the cities, so just mention it in passing for everyone elses benefit.

    In the rear areas, my workers are becoming active and starting to put in improvements and I have built a couple of refugee units and have some city sites selected to get them going.

    The time increment is not working. There is nothing to indicate what the date is.

    The save games are indicated as "Comrade Hitler".
     
  15. Colwyn

    Colwyn Chieftain

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    If its the 6th turn its Dec 1941 and time for the winter terrain and edit change to the german movements.

    I'll look into some of the things you mentioned many are very good points and will tidy up the game i'll get back when I update the biq file in the next week or so.

    I'm very interested to see at what point you are able to take the offensive, the time increment error you described is weird as can't duplicate it, can you post a saved file.

    Great work and thanks for your feedback.
     
  16. Gogf

    Gogf Indescribable

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    This looks awesome!
     
  17. Klyden

    Klyden Chieftain

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    I think it will be a long time before it can be said that I am truely on the offensive. I have 3 T-34 units that are vet or better now and 1 T 26 that has manage to get to Vet and those are basically my counter attackers. The only thing I have been after is depleated units for the most part. They come out, hit and run away. The Russian infantry won't be doing anything at all soon and I have mainly concentrated on the 45MM AT guns as a cheap means of defense to try to slow the Germans down.

    I am really concerned with the big push east of Kiev. There are a lot of pop centers there and I will likely loose them all. When the AI will decide to slow down and consolidate, I don't know. If nothing else, if it is truely December, then I have done better than historical.

    Attached the save game file. If you have any questions, please let me know.
     
  18. Goldflash

    Goldflash Grumpy Old Man

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    Where can you get the music?
     
  19. Colwyn

    Colwyn Chieftain

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    I've got it but some tunes are causing it to crash so I need to investigate further so for time being just delete the music.txt file so it will use the default Conquests one.
     
  20. music_theory7

    music_theory7 Chieftain

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    In the sceenshot there appears to be some trench like terrain. In the editor I found it to be called Stalin line but in the game it does show up. It appears to be a grassland and no trenches in site! This is also to oil refinaries and Factories appearing as grassland. Why? Anyone else have this problem? The Mills do appear though.
     

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