Great People alive today.

[Ladejarl]

What potential Great People are alive today too be worthy a place in Civ 10 released in an imaginary 2035?

Elon Musk? Greta Thunberg?

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Greta Thunberg?

I doubt that she could be considered as a Great Person if we look at Civ 6 categories of Great People, though the standards might have changed drastically by Civ 10.

Jeff Bezos, I guess, could be a Great Merchant. As well as... My mind's going blank as of now.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Both of those will presumably still be alive in 2035. Particularly Thunberg. You want to look at people in their 60s/70s/80s right now.

You might get some Great Scientists out of the early astronauts and cosmonauts. For Great Merchants, Bill Gates, perhaps. You might get Stormin' Norman Schwarzkopf for a Great General. A lot of other recent generals will probably still be too politically contentious for use.

For GWAMs, there are a lot of good choices. But you have to decide whether you want prolific writers/musicians or quality ones. And realistically, they probably won't appear due to copyright issues. Firaxis wisely prefers material no longer in copyright.

 

[Andrew Johnson [FXS]]

Firaxis wisely prefers material no longer in copyright.

Yes, as cool as it would be to have Bowie or Prince in the game, copyright won't allow it. Joplin is the bare bleeding edge of how we could put new musical forms like ragtime in - rock, jazz, etc., as much as we love Robert Johnson, Charlie Parker, etc. With more recent Great People, it's a complicated legal issue and not always an easy issue of "how old are they?". Tange, for instance, is relatively recent but could legally be included. Le Corbusier could not. Even if we wanted to include Musk (and would we?), this would be a legal issue way over the heads of the devs. There's also the issue of living people who might in their later years do something that tarnishes their legacy - witness the fluctuations of Aung San Suu Kyi's fame: from heroine to villain (and back?).

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

witness the fluctuations of Aung San Suu Kyi's fame: from heroine to villain (and back?).

I think it's safe to say, no recent Nobel Pease Prize Winners are actually going to be in Civ. They keep starting wars for some strange reason...

 

[Ladejarl]

Starting to think of it, who is the most recently deceased GP in Civ6 as of today?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I think Philip Glass is a Great Musician? If so, he's actually still alive.

Edit: Nevermind, I was thinking of Steven Reich in Civ V. He is still alive.

 

[ShallowSeas]

I don't really think you can predict how contemporary figures will be remembered in the future. People who are well known now could end up being forgotten just as people who are obscure now could have their true importance recognized.

 

[Menocchio]

The most recently-deceased Great Person is Stephanie Kwolek, who passed away only two years before the release of Civilisation 6.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I don't really think you can predict how contemporary figures will be remembered in the future. People who are well known now could end up being forgotten just as people who are obscure now could have their true importance recognized.

Simultaneously, a lot of really despicable behavior can get swept under the rug. Or some behaviors that we consider innocuous could be a big sticking point from future perspectives.

 

[Giskler]

Some I think might be considered for future inclusions and some (in my opinion) glaring omissions:

Great Merchant: Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk

Great General: Khalid Ibn al-Walid, Carl von Clausewitz, Takeda Shingen, Arthur Wellesley, Aleksei Brusilov, John Pershing, Erwin Rommel, Erich von Manstein, Heinz Guderian, Konstantin Rokossovsky, Norman Schwarzkopf, Moshe Dayan, David Petraeus

Great Admiral: Karl Dönitz, Isoroku Yamamoto, William Halsey

Great Scientist: Niels Bohr, John von Neumann, Enrico Fermi, Hedy Lamarr, Stephen Hawking, Michio Kaku, Neil deGrasse Tyson

Great Engineer: Steve Wozniak, Linus Torvalds, Tim Berners-Lee

Art is too subjective... not wading into that minefield, and yes, there are German generals from WW2 on the list. If Zhukov can be a Great General then so can they.

Oh, and I almost forgot L. Ron Hubbard as a Great Prophet...

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Hedy Lamarr as a Great Scientist. Inspired choice!

 

[ShallowSeas]

Simultaneously, a lot of really despicable behavior can get swept under the rug. Or some behaviors that we consider innocuous could be a big sticking point from future perspectives.

Indeed, many of those we now consider to be "good people" will be hated and despised by future generations.

Some I think might be considered for future inclusions and some (in my opinion) glaring omissions:

Great Merchant: Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk

Great General: Khalid Ibn al-Walid, Carl von Clausewitz, Takeda Shingen, Arthur Wellesley, Aleksei Brusilov, John Pershing, Erwin Rommel, Erich von Manstein, Heinz Guderian, Konstantin Rokossovsky, Norman Schwarzkopf, Moshe Dayan, David Petraeus

Great Admiral: Karl Dönitz, Isoroku Yamamoto, William Halsey

Great Scientist: Niels Bohr, John von Neumann, Enrico Fermi, Hedy Lamarr, Stephen Hawking, Michio Kaku, Neil deGrasse Tyson

Great Engineer: Steve Wozniak, Linus Torvalds, Tim Berners-Lee

Art is too subjective... not wading into that minefield, and yes, there are German generals from WW2 on the list. If Zhukov can be a Great General then so can they.

Oh, and I almost forgot L. Ron Hubbard as a Great Prophet...

These lists are always subjective, but it wouldn't really make much sense to put Neil deGrasse Tyson in as a great scientist. His role is more to act as an Ambassador for science and to promote basic scientific literacy amongs the public than to actually participate in research. You can argue the significance of this work and I suppose you could give him bonuses in game that reflect his public facing role, but he would be the odd one out.

Also Halsey was a bit of a dumbass.

 

[onepurpose]

Some I think might be considered for future inclusions and some (in my opinion) glaring omissions:

Great Merchant: Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk

Great General: Khalid Ibn al-Walid, Carl von Clausewitz, Takeda Shingen, Arthur Wellesley, Aleksei Brusilov, John Pershing, Erwin Rommel, Erich von Manstein, Heinz Guderian, Konstantin Rokossovsky, Norman Schwarzkopf, Moshe Dayan, David Petraeus

Great Admiral: Karl Dönitz, Isoroku Yamamoto, William Halsey

Great Scientist: Niels Bohr, John von Neumann, Enrico Fermi, Hedy Lamarr, Stephen Hawking, Michio Kaku, Neil deGrasse Tyson

Great Engineer: Steve Wozniak, Linus Torvalds, Tim Berners-Lee

Art is too subjective... not wading into that minefield, and yes, there are German generals from WW2 on the list. If Zhukov can be a Great General then so can they.

Oh, and I almost forgot L. Ron Hubbard as a Great Prophet...

good list..

I remember a post questioning the choices for the babilonian dlc .. specially great generals choices leaving off names like Moltke to Robert E. Lee .. and including rather obscure people like Dandara or Tupac Amaru II..

(Firexis' seem to have a crush on female anti-colonial insurgents: Boudicca, Ana Nzinga , Dandara .. or insurgentes in general -Tupac Amaru II- )

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

good list..

I remember a post questioning the choices for the babilonian dlc .. specially great generals choices leaving off names like Moltke to Robert E. Lee .. and including rather obscure people like Dandara or Tupac Amaru II..

(Firexis' seem to have a crush on female anti-colonial insurgents: Boudicca, Ana Nzinga , Dandara .. or insurgentes in general -Tupac Amaru II- )

Well, Firaxis has chosen people like Hojo Tokimune instead of Oda Nobunaga, Frederick Barbarossa instead of Otto von Bismarck, etc. to lead in Civ 6, so I'm not too surprised. Also, Boudicca wasn't an anti-colonialist, she was an anti-Roman person. Colonization is very different than warmongering.

 

[onepurpose]

I know... I was using the term in the most broader extension..

 

[Luxerne]

Yes, as cool as it would be to have Bowie or Prince in the game, copyright won't allow it. Joplin is the bare bleeding edge of how we could put new musical forms like ragtime in - rock, jazz, etc., as much as we love Robert Johnson, Charlie Parker, etc. With more recent Great People, it's a complicated legal issue and not always an easy issue of "how old are they?". Tange, for instance, is relatively recent but could legally be included. Le Corbusier could not. Even if we wanted to include Musk (and would we?), this would be a legal issue way over the heads of the devs. There's also the issue of living people who might in their later years do something that tarnishes their legacy - witness the fluctuations of Aung San Suu Kyi's fame: from heroine to villain (and back?).

Interesting that Le Corbusier could not be included for legal reasons. I know he's a deeply controversial figure, but I didn't expect there to be legal problems with including somebody who died half a century ago, who isn't a GWAM (with the obvious copyright on a bunch of great works). Well, either way, I'm glad that a figure like Kenzo Tange could be included instead anyways, since I got to learn about another cool architect. I'd already been familiar with Corbusier, but not Tange.

One thing I enjoyed about Civilization Revolution was the inclusion of Great Humanitarians as a type of GP, but your mention of how Aung San Suu Kyi's reputation has been... contested makes me think that the idea of "humanitarians" is pretty damn problematic in itself. One person's humanitarian may very well be another's villain. I still would like some way to represent people who nevertheless did a lot for civilization, but really don't fit into the existing GP categories...

EDIT: Of course, if there's a shot we'll be getting more great people in the future, feel free to check my signature for some suggestions.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Ahh... I see. Dandara I'm kind of iffy on but somewhat interested, Tupac Amaru II is pretty decent, Boudicca is overrated IMHO, and Ana Nzinga deserves her Great Generalship wholeheartedly.

 

[onepurpose]

well.. in my opinion none of them is representative to deserve its inclusion as "great" general..

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

well.. in my opinion none of them is representative to deserve its inclusion as "great" general..

That is your opinion which I respect. Ana Nzinga, however IMHO, has many merits for her inclusion.

Back to topic, what about Bernard Montgomery as a Great General?