Great People and Civ VII

[moysturfurmer]

According to Ursa Ryan in his Ask Me Anything video, Great People are now civ-specific (mentioned somewhere around the 58 minute mark). This is illustrated in Egypts list of Tjaty units

• 
  [*]Amhose: Activated on the Palace to add Culture to the building.
  [*]Aperel: Grants Chariot Units with increased Combat Strength.
  [*]Hemiunu: Activated on a Wonder under construction to add a medium amount of Production.
  [*]Imhotep: Activated on a Wonder under construction to add a larger amount of Production.
  [*]Khay: Grants Medjay Units that have increased Combat Strength.
  [*]Nebet: Activated on a Necropolis to immediately trigger a Golden Age.
  [*]Paser: Activated on a Wonder under Construction to add a smaller amount of Production.
  [*]Ptahhotep: Activated on a Constructible with a Great Work Slot to grant a Codex called 'The Maxims of Ptahhotep' that grants increased Science.
  [*]Ramose: Activated on a Wonder to add Gold to it.
  [*]Useramen: Activated on a Wonder to add Culture to it.

What other civs would be obvious candidates for Great People?

Italy for Great Artists? Austria for Great Musicians? Babylon for Great Scientists? Greece for Great Writers? Great Works seem agnostic of Great People, they can now be produced on a civ level, and might be given a more general classification (a Codex instead of The Iliad, for instance)

I’m not sure how I feel about this particular change, but curious about the implications it could have with regard to possible civs that get added into the game to fill in some gameplay blanks.

 

[MACKA0ili]

Might be a shift back to the more general style of great person rather than the unique ones of civ 6. What I mean by that is while the names and great works produced are tied to a civ, the majority of the effects are similar for all civs in the current age in order to maintain game balance. Having one or two unique great persons within that system would be cool though.

 

[kaspergm]

Wow, that’s really surprising for me, the Great People system was one of the best features in Civ6 imo.

 

[Brackenspore]

Italy for Great Artists? Austria for Great Musicians? Babylon for Great Scientists? Greece for Great Writers? Great Works seem agnostic of Great People, they can now be produced on a civ level, and might be given a more general classification (a Codex instead of The Iliad, for instance)

I think that in that case there will be no more types of great people (scientists, engineers, traders, etc.). Can you remember a great Polynesian or Songhai scientist? I can't either. So, there will just be unique people who don't belong to any type.

 

[AffineConstant]

Ah, I think I just decided to hold my preorder.

 

[moysturfurmer]

I think that in that case there will be no more types of great people (scientists, engineers, traders, etc.). Can you remember a great Polynesian or Songhai scientist? I can't either. So, there will just be unique people who don't belong to any type.

Oh, yeah I don’t mean to suggest each civ would have its own great people. In the announced civs we can see that only Egypt has some. But Egypt has access to unique historically accurate (?) Production-focused GPs, so it stands to reason that a handful of other Civs might have access to some to. Like perhaps Austria would get a Viennese coffee shop unique buildings that granted access to Culture-focused great people. Your Mozarts and the like.

 

[rocksinmypath]

For all the criticism they've received regarding culture swapping and how historically inaccurate that will make the game, it looks like Firaxis is trying to force users to play the game in a way that's thematically correct. Like, if you're playing as Egypt, they really want you to build the Pyramids, and you can have all your Egyptian great people to yourself. While you're playing as Egypt, they want you to really be Egypt. I have mixed feelings about this.

 

[Brackenspore]

For all the criticism they've received regarding culture swapping and how historically inaccurate that will make the game, it looks like Firaxis is trying to force users to play the game in a way that's thematically correct. Like, if you're playing as Egypt, they really want you to build the Pyramids, and you can have all your Egyptian great people to yourself. While you're playing as Egypt, they want you to really be Egypt. I have mixed feelings about this.

At the very least, this makes life difficult for modders. If I want to add some tribal culture as a playable civilization, it will be much, much more difficult for me to do this than in previous versions of the game. Since, due to objective historical reasons, the tribe might not have any world wonders, a developed tree of social policies, a wide pantheon of great people and many other unique features. And this will complicate the life of the developers themselves for the same reasons...

 

[moysturfurmer]

Not discounting the work that goes into modding, but it does seem to me like the Uniques are fairly modular and not exactly 1:1 across each civ. A lot of civs have 2 UBs, but Aksum doesn’t, and therefore doesn’t have a Unique Quarter either. Egypt has Unique great people, but none of the other announced civs do. So it stands to reason that there’s a system in place where a modded civ can have one, but not another.

So a civ without any options for wonders (say the Huns) might still be able to get modded in, since it’s only one module that’s missing from a “complete” package.

And the civ specific civics trees don’t seem to be too expansive. Just 3 as far as I can tell, generally associated with boosting the efficacy of the Uniques. It’s more work, yes, but perhaps that framing could make it a little more palatable.

 

[Harasar]

The way the Tjaty were described, they seems to be just normal unique unit. Even if it is a Great Person, I think it would be more like Gran Colombian's Comandante General from Civ6, an additional unique Great Person, not a replacement for entire system.

 

[moysturfurmer]

The way the Tjaty were described, they seems to be just normal unique unit. Even if it is a Great Person, I think it would be more like Gran Colombian's Comandante General from Civ6, an additional unique Great Person, not a replacement for entire system.

See 1:23:55 here. The game describes it as a Great Person unit. Civ has had unique Great People before (see Civ 5 Mongolia).

And that dude’s other video, as mentioned in the OP describes how they’re not in the game as we understand them, that the Great Works you fill libraries with are created through civics or something. As he played the game and interviewed the devs for a handful of hours I’m inclined to believe him.

 

[Harasar]

See 1:23:55 here. The game describes it as a Great Person unit. Civ has had unique Great People before (see Civ 5 Mongolia).

And that dude’s other video, as mentioned in the OP describes how they’re not in the game as we understand them, that the Great Works you fill libraries with are created through civics or something. As he played the game and interviewed the devs for a handful of hours I’m inclined to believe him.

Oh, ok, thanks for clarification. I've decided to just follow the officially released information about the game, because I've tried to watch some videos, but there is a lot of talks and I don't have so much time =)) Kind of sad if there is no longer Great People in the game, really liked them in Civ 6.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

For all the criticism they've received regarding culture swapping and how historically inaccurate that will make the game, it looks like Firaxis is trying to force users to play the game in a way that's thematically correct. Like, if you're playing as Egypt, they really want you to build the Pyramids, and you can have all your Egyptian great people to yourself. While you're playing as Egypt, they want you to really be Egypt. I have mixed feelings about this.

This, if anything it's these things that feel less of a Civ game, I was always kinda concerned about the bonus to Pyramids.. feels like it defeats the whole purpose of planning.

Stuff like this makes me feel that there will be less actual strategical choices to be made since the game will try and railroad you into certain paths instead...

 

[Verdant]

In all the gameplay previews and snippets shown so far has there been any mention of Great People?

Moderator Action: Merged with the thread discussing the new Great People system! --NZ

There are army commanders, which seem to take the place of Great Generals. I don't think it was confirmed yet how they are acquired, but we know that if they are killed they respawn at your capital some turns later.

Egypt lets you train the Tjaty, which is labelled a Vizier/Architect unit, and they have various effects from rushing wonders like a Great Engineer to improving tiles like a Great Person Tile Improvement, or creating a Great Work, or starting a Golden Age. These are great people effects, on a trainable unit. But is that unique to the Egyptians, or can other civs train Viziers and Architects?

Along with that, the Mauryan unique ability mentions Pantheons so there's definitely religion in the game, but I haven't seen any Faith related bonuses yet.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

Egypt lets you train the Tjaty, which is labelled a Vizier/Architect unit, and they have various effects from rushing wonders like a Great Engineer to improving tiles like a Great Person Tile Improvement, or creating a Great Work, or starting a Golden Age. These are great people effects, on a trainable unit. But is that unique to the Egyptians, or can other civs train Viziers and Architects?

Well, if the Vizier/Architect were unique to Egypt, I think they would the Tjaty would just be called a Vizier or an Architect.

 

[MasterPaw]

Wow, that’s really surprising for me, the Great People system was one of the best features in Civ6 imo.

I disliked how you could run out of great person (also some have worst bonuses), having to compete for it is interesting but I like civ 5 system better

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Randomly recruiting William Shakespeare and creating Romeo and Juliet and Hamlet as Montezuma of the Aztec Empire, is one of the joys of Civ that will be missed.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

In all the gameplay previews and snippets shown so far has there been any mention of Great People?

There are army commanders, which seem to take the place of Great Generals. I don't think it was confirmed yet how they are acquired, but we know that if they are killed they respawn at your capital some turns later.

Egypt lets you train the Tjaty, which is labelled a Vizier/Architect unit, and they have various effects from rushing wonders like a Great Engineer to improving tiles like a Great Person Tile Improvement, or creating a Great Work, or starting a Golden Age. These are great people effects, on a trainable unit. But is that unique to the Egyptians, or can other civs train Viziers and Architects?

Along with that, the Mauryan unique ability mentions Pantheons so there's definitely religion in the game, but I haven't seen any Faith related bonuses yet.

According to Potato and Spiff, who had a shared AMA yesterday, You can't found a religion in antiquity, only pick up a Pantheon

 

[Zaarin]

Well, if the Vizier/Architect were unique to Egypt, I think they would the Tjaty would just be called a Vizier or an Architect.

I disagree only because Tjaty is the Egyptian word for vizier.

 

[Verdant]

Well, if the Vizier/Architect were unique to Egypt, I think they would the Tjaty would just be called a Vizier or an Architect.

Yes, and calling them Architects intead of Great Engineers struck me as an interesting difference. Also suggests that the Tjaty is occupying the place of two distinect units, Viziers and Architects. I'll also guess that they won't be acquired with Great Person Points.

Maybe they'll be acquired or trainable with specific civics or events?