Great Person Balance

[Stalker0]

My thoughts on GP in general right now:

Great Merchant: Settling a GM is now really good thanks to the food. Overall I really like these guys now.

Great Scientist: Unless the bulb does not carry to the next tech (which I think is something we played with a long time ago), in general the academy feels weak compared to the bulb. I generally will settle the first scientist but otherwise bulb.

The bulb scales up pretty fast, and I've seen 1000-1500 science bulbs compared to a 8 spt academy. Also, the academy doesn't scale nearly as well as it does in the base game because you don't have the big science multipliers. In the base game you get the 33% for university, 50% for research lab, 50% for the School of Philosophy (the rename is great, I can't even remember what the unmodded name is!)

If the bulb doesn't carry over...I still wonder if its better to just hold the scientists until the tech is high enough to use the bulb in full.

Great Artist: Love them. GAs are awesome, I only settle them when I go for tourism, but that is fine. I think they are good.

Great Engineer: I find a good balance between settle and wonder rush with them now. The hammers are very nice early on. Overall they feel good.

Great Writer: Solid. I only settle them in tourism games, as the bulb I think is just stronger than the great work. That might need some tuning early game, as even my first GW I find its better to bulb, but I still enjoy them quite a bit.

Great Musician: Still so very boring. If I don't care about tourism (and most of the time I don't), all this does is give me a little extra culture.

Great General: Citadels can be fun, but I wish they had slightly better yields. I don't find they have a good non war use unless I want to anger my neighbors with border pushes.

Great Admiral: Other than the fact they can scout everywhere early in the game if you can get one, still feel pretty meh to me.

 

[Funak]

I pretty much just settle everything. Not because it is optimal but because I like it that way
Also I tend to go for Aesthetics, and that favors settling them.

 

[phantomaxl1207]

I don't find Great Merchant or Great Musicians that great for not settling. (Yes Musicians are great for finishing the game.)

They have very bad yields from their pop. Do Merchants go past 2000 Gold a pop?

Maybe Musicians should give more than 100 Tourism at the start.

Another thing to consider is that settling is that you can help some Unhappiness.

 

[Atlas627]

Merchant: If I'm making Great Merchants I'm probably overflowing in gold. The settling is nice but the bulb is useless when using CSD. Could we also make them permanently increase the resting point or something?

Scientist: I think they're well done, but I'd like to know how much science I'll get from bulbing before I do it.

Engineer: Same as Scientist. If it finishes the current building I waste some, as well. That sucks.

General: The citadel has pretty bad yields. For how many generals you make over the course of the game, this might warrant changing. Can they give tourism/culture late game?

Admiral: I believe we were working on a way to settle them somewhere?

Artist: Pretty much always choose the Great Work over the Golden Age. Tourism and culture give too many bonuses to ignore, and Golden Ages...lets just say I never notice them since yields are normally so high.

Writer: Pretty much always choose the Great Work. The amount of culture you get from bulbing seems to be dependent upon your culture output (like the scientist) but not as effective. With a scientist I get 1-2 techs, with a Writer I get 1/3 of a policy if I'm lucky.

Musician: Pretty much always choose the Great Work unless you only need 1 or 2 more holdouts for a Cultural Victory. I think we need some reason to use them if not going for a culture victory. They aren't even too good at that, since usually the culture holdouts are ones that don't have open borders with you, otherwise you would've dominated them already

 

[Funak]

I don't find Great Merchant or Great Musicians that great for not settling. (Yes Musicians are great for finishing the game.)

The Merchant question have been up before, and it never gets resolved. It needs a new "bulb" ablity, just flat gold is pointless.

 

[Strigvir]

Admirals definitely need some use outside of war, had to pop them for nothing just to get bonuses from aesthetics and liberty in my latest game.
As of Scientists and Merchants, they are pretty helpful to negate related unhappiness sources.
Strange OP haven't mentioned Great Diplomats, as both of their uses are pretty meh. Embassies don't contribute much even for diplomatic victory and the bulb gets quickly outclassed by basic diplomats (which can be easily spammed).

 

[Stalker0]

Strange OP haven't mentioned Great Diplomats, as both of their uses are pretty meh.

OP forgot about them

The embassy is okay, especially if you are going for diplo victory, though its not great.

I agree the bulb is pretty meh, early game it doesn't' even give me an alliance for all that long.

 

[void_genesis]

Bulb ideas for great merchants- an additional trade route (maybe even becoming a special type of cargo ship or caravan, hence more risk if you lose it), or increase city state influence by X with all know CS.

 

[Funak]

Bulb ideas for great merchants- an additional trade route (maybe even becoming a special type of cargo ship or caravan, hence more risk if you lose it), or increase city state influence by X with all know CS.

Why do people insist on it adding trade-routes? It is hardly a instantaneous effect.

I'd still say adding a few turns of WLTKD in all your cities would be a better solution.

 

[phantomaxl1207]

OP forgot about them

The embassy is okay, especially if you are going for diplo victory, though its not great.

I agree the bulb is pretty meh, early game it doesn't' even give me an alliance for all that long.

Spoiler :

images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/619591805767148755/32EE434AA58AA640CD12B1E32E6DB3D8ED8C7351/

A Great Diplomat in the Atomic Era

 

[Atlas627]

Oh right, forgot about the Great Diplomats.

1) I like the embassy, but it makes me sad that only one can be placed in each CS's territory. Not necessarily a bad thing, but a sad thing.

2) I hate using them on getting influence. How about increasing the resting point? Feels more unique, substantial, and Great. I know I suggested this for Great Merchants too, but that's because I forgot Great Diplomats exist. How about making Great Merchants give money and Golden Age points?

 

[Funak]

2) I hate using them on getting influence. How about increasing the resting point? Feels more unique, substantial, and Great. I know I suggested this for Great Merchants too, but that's because I forgot Great Diplomats exist. How about making Great Merchants give money and Golden Age points?

Artists already give GAs

 

[Atlas627]

Artists already give GAs

Yes, but these are 2 different tradeoffs and GA points are only useful if you have positive happiness. I suppose WLTKD might be better but I don't think it matters much.

 

[Funak]

Yes, but these are 2 different tradeoffs and GA points are only useful if you have positive happiness. I suppose WLTKD might be better but I don't think it matters much.

Mostly meant that the main reason the merchant needs to be changed in the first place is because of overlapping with the great diplomat forced it to change. More overlapping would be a silly solution.

 

[Gazebo]

Thoughts:

Great Merchant: A free WLTKD in all cities instead of the gold bonus?

Great Scientist: Reduce bulb value and scaling a bit?

Great Admiral: Give it the gold bonus from being expended instead of the GM? (Voyage of Discovery)

Great Diplomat: Increase influence scaling on instant?

 

[Funak]

Thoughts:

Great Merchant: A free WLTKD in all cities instead of the gold bonus?

I was actually thinking something among the line of lowering the gold-bonus and giving a shorter WLTKD in all cities, but either works.

Great Scientist: Reduce bulb value and scaling a bit?

I honestly don't see this problem, but whatever.

Great Admiral: Give it the gold bonus from being expended instead of the GM? (Voyage of Discovery)

Not a huge fan, gold just scales too weirdly imho.

Great Diplomat: Increase influence scaling on instant?

How about letting the diplomat bring you to 80 or something, and lower everyone else to 0? just throwing ideas out, I don't know.

How about removing the embassies and just let people 'bulb' the great diplomats for an extra vote?

 

[Lord Tirian]

I could see the Great Merchant acting as border pop - the GM literally just buys a load of land tiles. Of course, overlap with the GG and I'd wager that wouldn't work very well for the AI.

Though WLTKD plus instant border expansion (of existing cities) would be a neat use of a GM.

 

[Gazebo]

I could see the Great Merchant acting as border pop - the GM literally just buys a load of land tiles. Of course, overlap with the GG and I'd wager that wouldn't work very well for the AI.

Though WLTKD plus instant border expansion (of existing cities) would be a neat use of a GM.

Don't want to overlap too much with the GG, I fear. Gold + WLTKD in all cities is not a bad idea, though. Good thing about it as that I don't have to teach the AI anything new (much).

What if the Great Admiral could be expended to give you two copies of a random luxury resource? We could specify that it only gives resources you don't control, or perhaps resources that aren't even in the game. A little bit of free happiness and trade opportunities are pretty neat.

We could also do something (for the GM) with population. Perhaps popping the Great Merchant in foreign land (like the Great Musician) would take population from them and give it to your smallest city, along with a smattering of gold?

G

 

[Strigvir]

GM + China = overpopulation.
Pls no offensive use on non-combat specialists.

 

[Stalker0]

If you made the GM give a WLTKD bonus I think that would be enough. That's a pretty sizable growth bonus if you do it right.