Great Person Balance

[Lord Tirian]

Yeah, Gold+WLTKD is neat and probably the most thematic for the GM. If it feels weak, then it's because gold needs another balance pass, not the GM.

Is it possible to add more unique non-map luxury resources (like porcelain or jewelry) to the game, perhaps a pool of 4-5? That'd be a good pool for the Great Admiral to draw from (but might work in reverse for the GM, too).

 

[Strigvir]

Great Diplomat: Increase influence scaling on instant?

I dunno if he can even compete with basic diplomats no matter how much of instant influence you give him.
After all they give ~75 influence and are easily spammable.

 

[Funak]

Don't want to overlap too much with the GG, I fear. Gold + WLTKD in all cities is not a bad idea, though. Good thing about it as that I don't have to teach the AI anything new (much).

That was my thought as well, however if you do put some work into it and make the great merchant usable outside of city-states. They would be useful for people who turn city-states off as well (I don't but I know some people who do). I have no clue how much work that would be however, so I'll leave it to you

What if the Great Admiral could be expended to give you two copies of a random luxury resource? We could specify that it only gives resources you don't control, or perhaps resources that aren't even in the game. A little bit of free happiness and trade opportunities are pretty neat.

Honestly, I'm afraid one copy would be too good.
Big question here is, do we want a instantaneous effect or a long-term benefit?

We could also do something (for the GM) with population. Perhaps popping the Great Merchant in foreign land (like the Great Musician) would take population from them and give it to your smallest city, along with a smattering of gold?

Not a fan of this. I think the wltkd idea is the right track, got some synergy with policies/religion/UA in the same way that the artist GA have, which is fine imho.

 

[Stalker0]

Honestly, I'm afraid one copy would be too good.

Too good, in the other thread we are debating how weak luxuries are right now

The strongest this could possibly be is it might get me a resource monopoly (or break someone elses). But the luxury be itself wouldn't be worth much at all.


In fact, I like the idea of it giving me 1 copy of the luxury I have the most of, to give me a shot at getting that monopoly. That could be fun! Though I guess that would only work with the luxury option which is not a core function.

 

[phantomaxl1207]

It would be interesting if Great Diplomats did lower opponents influence with CS.

 

[Gazebo]

It would be interesting if Great Diplomats did lower opponents influence with CS.

I agree. I think an equal raise/lower would work - goes up by x, goes down by x. That makes it much more invaluable vis-a-vis the standard units.

I think a free resource for the GA might work. I'll need to look at the code and make it work, but it would definitely make them useful for peaceful play, and would be an indirect buff to civs like Portugal. I think one free luxury is worthwhile enough, and a random one at that.

The Great Merchant can keep its gold and gain a WLTKD in all cities. Easy for me to code, and effective without being too strong. I think these changes will work.

G

 

[Atlas627]

I agree. I think an equal raise/lower would work - goes up by x, goes down by x. That makes it much more invaluable vis-a-vis the standard units.

I think a free resource for the GA might work. I'll need to look at the code and make it work, but it would definitely make them useful for peaceful play, and would be an indirect buff to civs like Portugal. I think one free luxury is worthwhile enough, and a random one at that.

The Great Merchant can keep its gold and gain a WLTKD in all cities. Easy for me to code, and effective without being too strong. I think these changes will work.

G

The Great Diplomat's bulb being similar to normal diplomats is boring even if it can be balanced. I still recommend trying a permanent raising of the resting point with a CS.

Great Admiral giving 1 free luxury would be extremely powerful if it automatically gave you one that didn't exist. 1 might be just right if it gives you one that exists but you don't have yet. 2 might be just right if it gives you one you already have.

Great Merchant giving gold and WLTKD seems fine. Synergizes in weird ways but that's part of the fun!

 

[Gazebo]

The Great Diplomat's bulb being similar to normal diplomats is boring even if it can be balanced. I still recommend trying a permanent raising of the resting point with a CS.

Great Admiral giving 1 free luxury would be extremely powerful if it automatically gave you one that didn't exist. 1 might be just right if it gives you one that exists but you don't have yet. 2 might be just right if it gives you one you already have.

Great Merchant giving gold and WLTKD seems fine. Synergizes in weird ways but that's part of the fun!

The GD already has a permanent effect (the embassy), so giving it a second permanent effect feels a little too strong IMO.

G

 

[Funak]

Too good, in the other thread we are debating how weak luxuries are right now

The strongest this could possibly be is it might get me a resource monopoly (or break someone elses). But the luxury be itself wouldn't be worth much at all.


In fact, I like the idea of it giving me 1 copy of the luxury I have the most of, to give me a shot at getting that monopoly. That could be fun! Though I guess that would only work with the luxury option which is not a core function.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying luxuries are bad, that's not the issue at all. I'm saying that the happiness provided by them is pathetic, making them useless as trading-resources. Monopolies are still super-powerful, breaking others monopolies is super-annoying.
The reason why I think this is too good isn't based of how good individual luxuries are, but how rare they are actually.

I agree. I think an equal raise/lower would work - goes up by x, goes down by x. That makes it much more invaluable vis-a-vis the standard units

I'd rather see them reset the city-state, sorta like "Demand a sphere of influence", this would make them something of a counter to eternally climbing city-state influences.

I think a free resource for the GA might work. I'll need to look at the code and make it work, but it would definitely make them useful for peaceful play, and would be an indirect buff to civs like Portugal. I think one free luxury is worthwhile enough, and a random one at that.

Really not a fan of this. There must be some better permanent solution.

The Great Merchant can keep its gold and gain a WLTKD in all cities. Easy for me to code, and effective without being too strong. I think these changes will work.

I'd lower the gold a bit while you're at it.

The GD already has a permanent effect (the embassy), so giving it a second permanent effect feels a little too strong IMO.

Agreed.

 

[Gazebo]

Really not a fan of this. There must be some better permanent solution.

Function implemented. Works, but need to teach the AI how to do it. It'll give 1 copy of a luxury resource not available on this current map. It'll expend the GA, of course, in the process.

G

 

[Funak]

Function implemented. Works, but need to teach the AI how to do it. It'll give 1 copy of a luxury resource not available on this current map. It'll expend the GA, of course, in the process.

G

Is it going to be placed on the ground somewhere or just be added?

 

[Gazebo]

Is it going to be placed on the ground somewhere or just be added?

It'll just be added.

G

 

[Atlas627]

Isn't that a guaranteed monopoly? That also means a guaranteed Corporation? That seems super strong for 1 Great Admiral.

And the reason why I suggest giving the Great Diplomat a 2nd permanent effect is twofold. First, you don't get many Great Diplomats so a temporary boost feels TERRIBLE especially when its of a type you can get through normal units. Second, you can't build 2 embassies in the same CS, so you're probably making 1 embassy per game, 2 at most. This leaves your other 2 or 3 Great Diplomats crying.

 

[Furkhail]

Isn't that a guaranteed monopoly? That also means a guaranteed Corporation? That seems super strong for 1 Great Admiral.

This feels like trouble. Maybe one luxury on the map but not controlled? Or removing the possibility for monopoly from that lux.

 

[Funak]

Isn't that a guaranteed monopoly? That also means a guaranteed Corporation? That seems super strong for 1 Great Admiral.

And the reason why I suggest giving the Great Diplomat a 2nd permanent effect is twofold. First, you don't get many Great Diplomats so a temporary boost feels TERRIBLE especially when its of a type you can get through normal units. Second, you can't build 2 embassies in the same CS, so you're probably making 1 embassy per game, 2 at most. This leaves your other 2 or 3 Great Diplomats crying.

It will mean a monopoly until someone else uses a great admiral. Most monopolies would be useless for this as well as they boost tile-yields. could probably work.

 

[Gazebo]

It will mean a monopoly until someone else uses a great admiral. Most monopolies would be useless for this as well as they boost tile-yields. could probably work.

If the resource isn't on the map already, it won't count towards a monopoly. It'll just be a free luxury.

G

 

[Atlas627]

If the resource isn't on the map already, it won't count towards a monopoly. It'll just be a free luxury.

G

If that's the case, perhaps 2 luxuries would be appropriate. One to keep and one to trade.

 

[Finarvi]

How about letting the diplomat bring you to 80 or something, and lower everyone else to 0? just throwing ideas out, I don't know.

That would make diplo wars change into game that's like in proverb "he who laughs last, laughs best". It'd be too OP, not really strategical.

How about removing the embassies and just let people 'bulb' the great diplomats for an extra vote?

I really like embassies. It's fun and unique, strategic feature. I also like that AI handles this feature quite well - I often have to search long for CS without embassy.

 

[Funak]

That would make diplo wars change into game that's like in proverb "he who laughs last, laughs best". It'd be too OP, not really strategical.

It was a suggestion to always make the diplomat bulb useful.

I really like embassies. It's fun and unique, strategic feature. I also like that AI handles this feature quite well - I often have to search long for CS without embassy.

I just don't like them running out, as it limits the usefulness of great diplomats by A LOT.

 

[Finarvi]

Well, that's normal that you can't always 'plant' your GPs. Examples: GG (I never use great citadel with some fun exceptions), GA/GM/GW if you have no slots.

I think it's fine that it happens to Great Diplomats as it:
1. encourages you to focus on building embassies
2. encourages you to get involved in diplo wars