Great Person Farms

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by wioneo, Jun 17, 2009.

  1. wioneo

    wioneo King

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    To be plain...I suck at making these.

    It just seems so wasteful to have 20 tiles of farmland around a city that can't build much of anything in a reasonable time before democracy/pyramids.

    So, would a cottage spammed city be an effective alternative? I'm referring to an Oxford+National epic combo with maxed commerce as the "farm." How effective are these farms anyways? I seem to usually have a great person popping up ever 20-30 turns later on(I run mercantilism for most if not all of the game while it's available and do my best to get the GL and SoL), do dedicated farms go faster than this?

    Also, the main source of great people for me usually tends to be the capital which usually has great production under bueracracy(also run for most of the game) and almost always coems with a large food surplus to support specialists.

    So are these farms even really necessary? I tend to be at war with at least one rival for most of the game(often DoW when bored), and the loss of production/distraction of farmbuilding workers seems a bit detrimental to overall progress.
     
  2. Laurwin

    Laurwin Prince

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    well, yea, I also tend to build national epic at the oxford city, which usually is my capital. I dont really see any reason to have more farms than what would be necessary to run the max amount of scientists in the city (library, university, observatory, oxford, and later laboratory)

    The rest of the tiles I usually dedicate to cottages. For exactly that reason, that if you only have farms in the BCF, the city barely has any hammer output at all, in case you need to build anything. (im usually running universal suffrage late game)
     
  3. Phatshady912

    Phatshady912 Chieftain

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    Depends on what difficulty level you are on I think, the higher you move up the more you need to bulb techs for trading and to win the Liberalism race.
     
  4. JBossch

    JBossch King

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    A cottage spam city is not an alternative to a GP farm, the two can and should coexist. Obviously, there are exceptions to everything and you really need to post a save for specific advice but I think a "typical" game might involve a bureaucracy capital covered with cottages where one builds Oxford and possibly IW. The NE goes in the GP farm which will generally have no cottages, just farms and 2-3 food sources. Production in this city is inconsequential. Whip infrastructure and then run as many specialists as possible and whichever are needed. Unless you are philosophical or running Rep from the mids, there is not much need for another GP farm, jsut make the rest of the cities commerce (cottages) or production (mines). Sometimes the capital is so food-heavy that it makes sense to make it your GP farm but in those cases some would move their capital or, if not, bureaucracy is just less of a benefit. In these cases Oxford and NE can go together but it is not always optimal.

    One other point: You may want to reevaluate running Merc for most of the game. You are losing out on foreign trade routes which can be far more lucrative than the output of one specialist.
     
  5. ParadigmShifter

    ParadigmShifter Random Nonsense Generator

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    You need some production in your GP farm if you are going to run caste system. I go for whipping early but a horse or a mine or two is worth it.
     
  6. Fluxx

    Fluxx Mr. Almost There

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    On topic:
    You only need 1 GP farm, you dont need much buildings in it, just mass food and irrigation.
    The general science/commerce/espionage output equals if not surpasses other cities. Plus the obvious fact that you can get out GP's very easily.

    Offtopic:
    The general idea that you MUST win the liberalism race to win a game is just nonsense. If you get liberalism, fine, good, nice. If you dont, then you play on and beat them anyways.
    Also something I always wonders, do modifiers influence specialist bonuses (f.e. libraries, markets etc. Afaik they dont right?).
     
  7. ParadigmShifter

    ParadigmShifter Random Nonsense Generator

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    Yeah, modifiers do affect specialists.

    So oxford/library/academy/university/observatory/lab scientists are really good ;) Super science specialists under representation are even better...
     
  8. Olfart

    Olfart Black Briar Meademaster

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    First post: Bear with me. I've been at Noble for a while with inconsistent success. I've successfully weaned myself from wonder addiction, but do GP farms very poorly. I seem to wind up using my capitol by default with subsequent health and happiness issues. I've been running Liz at epic level to try to maximize gp production. I'm really good looking back and seeing what I should have done - not so good at planning ahead, yet. Lots of helpful tips from the guides and forums; still working to make them succeed.
     
  9. MkLh

    MkLh King

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    An early GP farm is very useful, but it really doesn't have to be any kind of great city. If you put GL and NE there, 2 scientists are enough for liberalism bulbs. Any decent city can feed 2 scientists and even double as commerce or production city. IMO it's often more important to have forests and production for rushing GL and NE than food.
     
  10. StrategeryBush

    StrategeryBush Warlord

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    I agree with MkLh, in most cases a couple of Scientists are all you need to make the GS to use for bulbing towards Liberalism. I frequently try to put my GP farm in a spot with 5-7 forest tiles so that you can put National Epic and National Park in the same city. Other than the two national wonders, all this city builds are buildings which enable you to run specialists, hopefully with the GL as one of them. This tends to lead towards getting more GP later in the game, which in turn often leads me to using them for at least a couple of golden ages. With that in mind, I often try to prioritize the Mausoleum.
     
  11. JujuLautre

    JujuLautre Deity

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    Exactly. Early in the game, this is a little bit wasteful. More than a spot where you can put lots of farms, look for a spot with 3+ food resources. Farms, in the early game, mean that you need 2 farmes for 1 specialist. Food special, however, mean that you need 1 citizen for 1 to 2 specialists (4food = 1spe, 5food = 1.5spe, 6food = 2spe). So if you have, like, 1 fish and two clams, you can support 6 specialists at size 9. While if you wanted the same number of specialists with grassland farms, you would need a city of size 16, much less impressive.
    Later, obviously, you can put additional farms while you increase your caps, but at first, look for good food tiles.
     
  12. Crusher1

    Crusher1 King

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    If you're unable to get a GPF started soon enough to generate the needed scientist for a few power bulbs don't sweat it. The alternative is to have around 3 cities start running GS all at the same time and you'll receive 3 GPs very fast. If you are PHIL or happen to have early caste then you get them even quicker so you can start them later and still get them quick enough. If you can start them later and still get them in time thats a huge plus because it lets you continue growing/expanding from the cities. Just use binary research and stay at zero until you start running them all.
     
  13. Unconquered Sun

    Unconquered Sun Emperor

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    1. The GP farm primary task is to produce gpp, not beakers.

    2. Setting the GP farm early makes a difference in challenging games.

    3. While GL+NE is enough for Liberalism, high GP production on top of respectable bpt can make for very strong mid-game advantage, i.e. Mil Trad pre-500 AD or Infantry ~1000 AD on Deity.
     
  14. mi6agent

    mi6agent Warlord

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    A good GP farm always sweat, but you only need 2-3 GS to have Liberism around 400 AD so dont worry if you cant set up one.
     
  15. VoiceOfUnreason

    VoiceOfUnreason Deity

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    I'd be a bit more specific here - the primary task of a GP farm is to produce the next GP as quickly as possible.
     
  16. FlyinJohnnyL

    FlyinJohnnyL You need more workers....

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    Good point VoU, GPP that isn't going to get you a GP is absolutely worthless.
     
  17. DaveMcW

    DaveMcW Deity

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    "Great Person Farm" is a very misleading term. Farmed grassland is utterly useless for that purpose.

    "Great Person Nets" is more accurate.
     
  18. Freedom

    Freedom Warlord

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    Workshops work pretty well for getting infra up and ready. Workshops under caste are -1f2p (further enhanced by guilds & chemistry) which is fine because specialists are basically -2f tiles anyway. SO, after you get you GP put those specialists to work on workshops for no food loss.
     
  19. Laurwin

    Laurwin Prince

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    would you go as far as to say a specific GP? I honestly tend to avoid using any more specialists than I have to, late game if i for example need to found a corporation, but im short of a great merchant, then im of course gonna switch all my scientists to merchants and only use those specialists. If im casually running my wall street city, then thats a different case, and im usually running priests also.
     
  20. fed1943

    fed1943 Emperor

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    As usual, play the map.
    Before there are 20 farms or 20 cottages or 20 whatever, there are 20 tiles.
    Which tiles? 20 grasses? some food resources? some commerce resources? some hills? forests?
    That's the first point.
    Then think about your other cities.
    Best regards,
     

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