[BTS] Great person strategy

[jnebbe]

Right now my go-to strategy is to get CoL and Music first and have 1 GS ready. I'll use the Music GA for a golden age, bulb philo, and then adopt both caste+pacifism. From there I'll tech Civil Service and on the last turn of the golden age, I'll switch into Bereau, back into slavery, and out of pacifism. This will usually get me 2 more great scientists which I'll use both on education, at which point I basically ignore great people for the rest of the game.

How could this be improved? I really really hate anarchy but I feel like it's something I'll have to get used to in order to get more great people out. Is it worth going for music even if I'm going going for cuirs? (the bonus research can be really nice) What are some other techs I should be bulbing later on in the game? Anything else I should try?

 

[lymond]

Fairly standard approach you describe. For me, I usually bulb Philo, 1 bulb Edu, and put a bulb into Lib (need to tech Compass, usually trade for MC, and avoid Machinery). I might tech Philo (or trade for it) depending on the overall state of the game and timing of the Golden Age. But yeah, I usually shoot for the free GA from Music.

Timing of caste/paci switch is often at the start of the Golden Age. However, depending of the reli situation and relative peaceful state of the game, I may switch at some point sooner. Bureau switch as well is timed at the start or during the Golden Age, again depending on the timing.

I might stay in caste/paci for a bit after the golden age, depending on certain factors.

Regardless, I will say this. At the first golden age, my main goal is to produce as many GSs as possible for the bulbs. Sometimes that may be 2 or 3 or more. However, the secondary goal is also maxxing GPP in as many worthy cities as possible. I may not produce more GPs immediately, but I will at a later point and will likely run another golden age at some point (Taj or 2 GPs).

GSs can make some worth bulbs on some techs like Printing Pres. 1 bulb PP and usually can complete it in 1 turn. Chem and Astro are also decent bulbs. Really at this point on it depends on what I'm trying to achieve, but later on the priority changes to Great Merchants, or possibly odd GPs for golden ages like one to pair with the free guy from Commie.

So in short, yes, I do find GPs still have value after the Lib ploy. How and what depends a good deal the victory. If going Conquest/Dom, I'm usually shutting down research for the most part except any military stuff, so GMs are nice for gold. If Space, I'm probably focuses on producing as many GPs as I can and likely will still bulb some stuff with GSs. As you get more cities and population, bulb value does increase on GS bulbs. In a recent Space game I was getting close to 2500b from GS bulbs.

 

[Qactus]

...Is it worth going for music even if I'm going going for cuirs?...

Going Cuirs you should absolutely target Music, since it's a requirement for Military Tradition.

... As you get more cities and population, bulb value does increase on GS bulbs. In a recent Space game I was getting close to 2500b from GS bulbs.

Over at @Anysense 's BC space thread he just bulbed >9000 beakers into Biology

 

[Anysense]

Over at @Anysense 's BC space thread he just bulbed >9000 beakers into Biology

That would be only 3000 on normal speed, much less impressive after scaling I think I did about 3200 on normal, those were latish bulbs into Computers and Fusion, though.

There is also Chemistry bulb, very handy when going for cannons. SM and Biology bulbs are good when going for Sushi.

 

[krikav]

Avoid CS and you can bulb Military Science too.
Almost requires a very bad capital though, or some other unique circumstance.

But really, outside of capital academy, philo, edu/lib, astro and possibly chem/PP, then the name of the game is usually just GMerchants to run deficit research or do unit upgrades.

 

[sampsa]

This will usually get me 2 more great scientists which I'll use both on education, at which point I basically ignore great people for the rest of the game.

Getting two out of a golden age is a very low number. I'd try to get at least 3, perhaps 4. Usually 3 sci is most you need for bulbing towards liberalism (2*edu, lib) thus you should go for GMs beyond that. Hard to say without seeing the specifics, but how many cities are you using to spawn ? I'd try to have 3-4 big cities at -cap or beyond, but sometimes you have only 2 good cities to do the duty. Well, building NE is an option.

Ignoring for the rest of the game might be good, if you are winning the game quickly via war. If not, it's likely that you should try to spawn more. Again, NE(and GLib) help.

 

[Donald Duck1]

You could try a Spiritual leader to try some alternative paths.
With Hatshepsut I usually tech Civil Service before Aest/Lit/Music, and usually generate 5 GSs for academy, Philo, Paper, Edu and Lib.

 

[krikav]

@jnebbe The intuitive fear of anarchy is good intuition. But it needs to be balanced too.
It's somewhat easy with a small empire to just calculate the value of a turn. Just add food+hammers+commerce together and subtract upkeep and you get a rough ballpark figure for what a turn is worth.
If thats 400, then 400 is the price you pay to get better suited civics.
Thinking of it that way makes it way easier to make good choices imho.

It's not uncommon for me to eat some turns of anarchy, even if I have gotten that music GArtist, just because I don't want to run the GA prematurely.

Also, anarchy after a huge whipfest, once you have your troops on the field doing their thing, that anarchy isn't something to worry about at all.
The units move just fine even in anarchy, and since you have whipped cities down they won't contribute much anyway. So the price of anarchy is less.

And vice versa, sometimes even a single turn of anarchy is too much, and I will postpone even something highly lucrative such as swapping into burocracy, because some short term race is too tight.

 

[sampsa]

It's somewhat easy with a small empire to just calculate the value of a turn.

This! It also applies to many other things in the game. Calculating the value of various things develops your intuition to the right direction. When the game came out, people were ecstatic about for example shrines (or say courthouses). "15 per turn, yum!" Then again, you can usually sell excess /-resources for more at the cost of nothing.

 

[SnipedSoul]

If you skip fishing you can bulb machinery and engineering with GS for a fun relatively early rush. You can skip paper and then bulb chemistry for max hammer workshops as a follow-up. The final bulbs I'll do are into education, printing press, or scientific method to speed up communism for super workshops.

 

[ArchGhost]

Pretty much agree 100% with Sampsa -- getting only two GP in a Golden Age is almost like a waste of it. As stated the NE is an option and it really helps if you get stuck in a situation with few food high food spots, no religion to spread, can't swing a GA because you missed Music, etc. I typically try to build it in every game even without marble because it can still help with more GPP in the post-Lib race era.

Typically only need 3 GS on Lib bulb gambit. Usually have one earmarked for Philosophy and one on Education, the third can be shuffled around on Academy/2nd Edu bulb/Lib bulb depending on the strength of you tech rate or the tech situation -- it's not always easy to have your stars align and have all the techs you need for Lib bulb up for trade if you approach that point super fast, for example, or you may want to immediately double bulb Education to reduce incentive for the AIs to finish it/start putting progress in Lib right away if they are close to it.

Of course the easiest way to extend your flexibility is just generate another GS or two and then you can make up even more ground in the Lib race while you focus on other things with your city management than just pushing beaker output -- growing in prep for mass whipping, raw hammers for building units to upgrade, fail-gold stacking, etc.

Is it worth going for music even if I'm going going for cuirs?

It is always worth going Music for the free GA and thus free Golden Age if you are chasing Lib. Teching Music is not such a priority otherwise, even if you ARE planning a Cuir attack, because it can be traded back around the time you are ready to go anyway, and is really not that expensive compared to the other required techs (Military Trad, Gunpowder) if you do need to self-tech it just before gearing up. I believe it can actually be quite a bit faster with a fast teching AI field (like Deity) to simply ignore it and trade back later while focusing on getting through Nationalism or not losing Lib first, when talking specifically about Cuir attacks.

What are some other techs I should be bulbing later on in the game?

Printing Press - can slightly improve your commerce and is on the path to Rifling and SciMeth
Chemistry - improve workshops, on the path to SciMeth and Steel
SciMeth - expensive gateway tech to higher things like Communism, Physics, and Biology
Astronomy - on a map that needs it like isolated start, the priority will be obvious. Otherwise can give you a big boost later in the game trading with other continents.

One of things I usually try to do after a successful Cuir war with huge land gains or if I managed to get a ton of land even without war is beeline to Communism ASAP after the Lib race is decided and GS bulbing into Chem and SciMeth are hugely helpful for those expensive techs. I typically try for at least 6 GS in any game to help facilitate that, and usually push for more or pick up things like the Economics GM for a GA swap into State Property/Caste if I can swing it. SP is such a huge deal with a big empire.

 

[gavenkoa]

As you get more cities and population, bulb value does increase on GS bulbs. In a recent Space game I was getting close to 2500b from GS bulbs

Are you saying that bulb points depends on population / city count? I thought it has fixed value that depends on map size/difficulty ...

 

[AcaMetis]

The amount of generated by a GS (as well as the amount of GE rush build , I believe) does increase the more population your empire has.

 

[gavenkoa]

Again, NE(and GLib) help.

I do see how Great Lib speeds up GS generation (doubles). And I target it because specialists also provides research bonuses.

National Epic is something I never built. GLib just did the job.


Today I slowly rotate it among cities because of Marble/Industrious/Forges/Org religion failgold (stacking overflows).

This delays NE significantly. I wonder what is the good utilization of it, how early and where I need it. Obviously capital won't benefit because of GP pollution + rendering other cities out of GP generatin.

 

[gavenkoa]

rendering other cities out of GP generatin

I mean 4 scientists in the capital with NE +100% makes it as if there is 8 specialists. Capital outperform anyone, so no GP in other cities ever.

I think we need to split GP generation evenly to 2-3 cities (capital with Glib, other is NE, and one heavy on National wonders).

A GP farm concept sounds solo, I thing it should be distributed.

 

[Qactus]

Are you saying that bulb points depends on population / city count? I thought it has fixed value that depends on map size/difficulty ...

Bulb beakers for a great scientist on normal speed are 1500 + 3x population.
Note: There is no adjustment for map size (apart from the indirect effect that you'll likely have more population on larger maps). Tech costs do increase with map size though, from 100% on duel to 150% on huge.