Great Persons (and their names) in Planetfall

Pfeffersack

Deity
Joined
May 10, 2003
Messages
3,167
Location
Germany
My original intention with this thread was just to discuss the used names (more on that in the next post), but while examining the different GP's in the UnitInfos.xml, I stumbled across an issue, which was discussed a while ago - the inability of Hackers to bulb techs. IIRC, the problem was that they just not did it, depite being intended to do so (= fitting techs were already marked for them). The problem seems to be that they just miss the code lines telling the game how many research points they should be worth. I just copied over those lines from the Great Engineer:

Code:
<iBaseDiscover>1000</iBaseDiscover>
<iDiscoverMultiplier>2</iDiscoverMultiplier>

First line is the base beakers, next line is what is added to it per passed turn, I believe.
(BTW, here are -intended?- differences between the GP: The Doctor and Scientist are at 1500/3, Engineer/Chaplain/Tycoon have: 1000/2)

It also works for the Great General (the question is we want that, as it would shift balance twoards the warmongers, especially Santiago...)

The pictures show the code in action:
 

Attachments

  • HackerTech.jpg
    HackerTech.jpg
    83.8 KB · Views: 334
  • GGtech.jpg
    GGtech.jpg
    90.8 KB · Views: 339

Pfeffersack

Deity
Joined
May 10, 2003
Messages
3,167
Location
Germany
Of course those GP names are a completely consmetic issue, but in my opinion they can contribute to then mods atmosphere, if they sound credible or have even a relation to the original SMAC - OTOH, a lack of names for certain types of Great Persons (leading to them being just called e.g. "Hacker") or non-futuristic names deduct from atmosphere.

After browsing the UnitInfos.xml, first two questions regarding the current situation:


1. I noticed to different formations for the names stored there:

Code:
<UniqueName>Henry Dorsett Case</UniqueName>
<UniqueName>TXT_KEY_GREAT_PERSON_JING_KE</UniqueName>

Is there a special reason for this or doesn't it make a difference at all?


2. Most names are completely foreign to me and are ok, some seem to be take-overs from Civ4 or real-world persons not used in Civ4. I don't know what others think about this, but it breaks some immersion for me, especially if the names sound rather "ancient". It can be of course argued that the same name could occur in future again, but that still do make in a real gain to have those names. So my question is, if the leftovers where choosen for certain reasons or were they rther just left in to not decrease the name pool even more?


Anyway, beside wanting to use that thread to collect ideas for new/more names from others, I opened it to post my findings, when digging trough the textfiles of the original SMAC. Sadly, there aren't to many named characters beside the 14 faction leaders. Here is what I have come up with and my idea what to do with them:

- Richard Baxton (probably the most famous one, from the Holo-Theatre quote): Why not make him a Great General?
- Fedor Petrov (Retroviral-Engineering quote): He is addresses as Vice-Dekan...could become a Great Scientist
- Kel (Doctrine Initiative quote): Another candiate for a GG
- Kri'lan (Cha Dawn mentiones him in quote for Bioadaptive Resonance, as one teaching him): Transcendent
- Bad'l Ron (Nanomatter Editation, Digital Sentinence): Perfect as a Hacker!
- T.M. Morgan-Reilly (two quotes: Fusion Lab and Organic Super-Lubricant): Great Engineer or Tycoon
- Dr. Shimoda (he is frequently refered to in the interlude episodes): Great Scientist or (probably more needed) Great Doctor
- Voki (also interludes; described a "young talent" with extraordinary PSI skills): Transcedent
- Canla (interlude, refered to as "Stochastican"): Great Scientist
- Dr. Gayle Nambala (Frictionless Surface quote): Great Engineer
- Dr. Xynan (mentioned in the Punishment Sphere quote): unsure
- Baron Klim (author of the Punishment Sphere quote, from his work "The Music of the Spheres"): unsure
- Bozon Pete (adressed as Foreman, Quantum Lab quote): unsure, maybe something Drone related?
- John Henry (in the Robotic Assembly Plant quote): unsure, maybe something Drone related?
 

GeoModder

Deity
Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Messages
7,512
Kel (Doctrine Initiative quote): Another candiate for a GG
Kri'lan (Cha Dawn mentiones him in quote for Bioadaptive Resonance, as one teaching him): Transcendent
Baron Klim (author of the Punishment Sphere quote, from his work "The Music of the Spheres"): unsure

With "Kel" you probably refer to the "Spartan Kel" signature. Kel is not used as a name there, but as a rhyme.
I always thought Kri'lan was a Progenitor. At least, the name has a strong resemblance to both the Caretaker and Usurper leader.
And Baron Klim seems to refer to a historic person on Earth, not to a colonist on Chiron.
 

Maniac

Apolyton Sage
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Messages
5,588
Location
Gent, Belgium
the inability of Hackers to bulb techs

Thanks for discovering the problem. :D

(BTW, here are -intended?- differences between the GP: The Doctor and Scientist are at 1500/3, Engineer/Chaplain/Tycoon have: 1000/2)

The Great Scientist giving a bigger benefit is a vanilla thing. I figured I'd do the same for Doctor, as they don't have any additional cool benefit (some unique building, trade mission...) like the other great people.

Is there a special reason for this or doesn't it make a difference at all?

The TXT_KEY_ names are vanilla Civ4 ones.

So my question is, if the leftovers where choosen for certain reasons or were they rther just left in to not decrease the name pool even more?

To not decrease the name pool even more. Jing Ke for instance is a vanilla name, but I don't have a clue who he is, and the name still fits for contemporary Chinese, so I don't see a problem with keeping that one.

Some cool suggestions. About others I'm not so sure: is it a good idea to make people who are closely tied to one faction a great person name available for all?

Who's Canla by the way? My SMAC doesn't have that name. Nor does the game feature Stochasticans. I expect that must be a German translation thing. What quote does it come from?

John Henry is a name from real literature IIRC.

With "Kel" you probably refer to the "Spartan Kel" signature. Kel is not used as a name there, but as a rhyme.

Could you please elaborate why you think this?
(During ACDG3 we Spartans didn't have a clue who or what this 'Kel' was. We decided on making it the name of some elite unit.)

I always thought Kri'lan was a Progenitor. At least, the name has a strong resemblance to both the Caretaker and Usurper leader.

Indeed.

And Baron Klim seems to refer to a historic person on Earth, not to a colonist on Chiron.

Google and Wikipedia don't know him. I suspect that one is a SMAC original.
 

Pfeffersack

Deity
Joined
May 10, 2003
Messages
3,167
Location
Germany
About others I'm not so sure: is it a good idea to make people who are closely tied to one faction a great person name available for all?

It is not ideal, but when the Progenutors get added, we will run into that problem anyway - they will have Great people as well and most of their names will be human (thats why I don't have a problem with the progenitor names Canla or Kri'lan as well).


Who's Canla by the way? My SMAC doesn't have that name. Nor does the game feature Stochasticans. I expect that must be a German translation thing. What quote does it come from?

Indeed, it is a german file: "interludea" Here is is in the 3rd text. Headlines:

#INTERLUDE2
#xs 500
#caption Episode: Schrumpfköpfe

Schrumpfköpfe = shrunken heads. The text is written from the view of the progenitors and talks about their thoughts, after they have captured some humans.
 

Maniac

Apolyton Sage
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Messages
5,588
Location
Gent, Belgium
Ah, cool. Didn't remember that one. Perhaps Progenitor names could appear at the complete end of the great people lists.
 

WarKirby

Arty person
Joined
Jul 13, 2006
Messages
5,317
Location
Glasgow, Scotland
In SMAC, every faction had a lietenant, who was only referenced in one or two interlude text parts. I remember finding them in the faction editor. They were mentioned as the first people to be entrusted with control of a mind worm brood

I can't recall the names though, but if you can get those, there's another 12-14 names to use.
 

Hankc

Warlord
Joined
Apr 25, 2009
Messages
125
Location
Where the dinosaurs roam
I decided to have a go and look up those names, there are two faction-specific names. One labeled "Assistant" and one labeled "Scientist". The progenitor factions share those names. Peter and Hackjob respectivly ;).

The others are as follows:

Hive:
Assistant: Ota Kyi
Scientist: Shimoda

Angels:
Assistant: Katt
Scientist: Roberts

Believers:
Assistant: Jessica
Scientist: Westcott

Consciousness:
Assistant: Alpha Talent
Scientist: Gamma Thinker

Drones:
Assistant:Maxwell
Scientist: Irwin

Cult
Assistant: Fatima
Scientist: Samuels

Gaians:
Assistant: Lindly
Scientist: Scott

Morgan:
Assistant: Jeneba
Scientist: Kai

Peacekeepers:
Assistant: Sarita
Scientist: Kakani

Pirates:
Assistant: Ensign Jones
Scientist: Lukas

Spartans:
Assistant: Voki
Scientist: Bonaventura

University:
Assistant: Nataliya
Scientist: Fedorov
 

Pfeffersack

Deity
Joined
May 10, 2003
Messages
3,167
Location
Germany
In SMAC, every faction had a lietenant, who was only referenced in one or two interlude text parts. I remember finding them in the faction editor. They were mentioned as the first people to be entrusted with control of a mind worm brood

I can't recall the names though, but if you can get those, there's another 12-14 names to use.

Thank you for that tip :goodjob:

From the Faction Editor (Leader/Assistent/Lead Scientist):

Yang - Ota Kyi - Shimoda
Roze - Katt - Roberts
Miriam - Jessica - Westscott
H'minee - Hackjob - Peter
Aki - Alpha Talent - Gamma Thinker
Domai - Maxwell - Irwin
Cha Dawn - Fatima - Samuels
Deidre - Lindly - Scott
Morgan - Jeneba - Kai
Lal - Sarita - Kakani
Sveensgaard - Ensign Jones - Lukas
Santiago - Voki - Bonadventura
Zhak - Nataliya - Fedorov
Marr - Hackjob - Peter ???

The strange thing is just that the editor strictly claims that there are two different persons, but in most cases it seems that the "assistent" is just a first name, the scientist only a Surname, somtimes it is inverted :crazyeye: Maybe we should be so free and just put both together...I think those names wouldn't sound bad then:

Ota Kyi Shimoda (GrDr)
Katt Roberts (Ha)
Jessica Westscott (GrPsCh)
Peter Hackjob (Tr)
Alpha Talent (Ha)
Gamma Thinker (Ha)
Irwin Maxwell (GrE)
Fatima Samuels (Tr)
Lindly Scott (Tr)
Kai Jeneba (GrTy)
Sarita Kakani (GrDr)
Lukas Ensign Jones (GG)
Voki Bonadventura (GG)
Nataliya Fedorov (GrSc)

I have choosed the professions after the faction leaning and based on what we might need most (Hackers and Doctors run out of names more aften then Scientists or Engineers), but of couse that open to be debated.

Another source could be the three Alpaha Centauri novels, which appeared shortly after the game. Sadly, they aren't available anymore nowadays (at least not for a resonable price)...I have the very first one somewhere, but can't find it at the moment. Has someone else (read) those books from Michael Ely?



Edit: @ Hankc
I had not expected that someone one be so quick taking that over - thank you for your effort :)
 

Lord Tirian

Erratic Poster
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
2,724
Location
Liverpool, UK
It is not ideal, but when the Progenutors get added, we will run into that problem anyway - they will have Great people as well and most of their names will be human (thats why I don't have a problem with the progenitor names Canla or Kri'lan as well).
You can make separate lists for great people names, AFAIK. That's done by making a UU-version of the great person for a faction, allowing you to define their own name list. As the faction will get the UU-version, it will only use its own name list.

For Transcendents, I thought it might be neat to have some names that are just titles - they've sort of transcended individual names and became the epitome of their motivation, things like "The Hero", "The Priest", "The Truthsayer", "The Oracle", "The Guide", "The Caretaker" etc.

Cheers, LT.
 

GeoModder

Deity
Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Messages
7,512
Could you please elaborate why you think this?
(During ACDG3 we Spartans didn't have a clue who or what this 'Kel' was. We decided on making it the name of some elite unit.)

Not much to elaborate on. IIRC, the signature was used twice (honing the ki and the tachyon field quote), and both times a different voice spoke the quote indicating its not the same 'person' talking.
 

WarKirby

Arty person
Joined
Jul 13, 2006
Messages
5,317
Location
Glasgow, Scotland
or maybe the voice actor quit halfway through the project, and firaxis didn't feel like rerecording lines he had already done.

I think Spartan Kel is a good enough name, anyways.
 

Minchandre

Chieftain
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
3
I was just playing SMAC, and the fiction displayed after your first home-grown mindworm is destroyed mentioned a "Major Joachim", at least for the University. Joachim therefore might be a reasonably Great General name.
 

Maniac

Apolyton Sage
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Messages
5,588
Location
Gent, Belgium
I don't see a Joachim in the univ or interlude files. Do you have an English version of SMAC?
 

Keeper_GFA

Prince
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
524
Location
Canada
He's at the end of the interlude6 entry.
 

GeoModder

Deity
Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Messages
7,512
Have you forgotten about the heroic delaying action of Battle Function Gamma Theta Five? :mischief:
 
Top Bottom