Great Prophets

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Gwaja, Mar 1, 2011.

  1. VoiceOfUnreason

    VoiceOfUnreason Deity

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    Every time I've looked into this, the answer has been "no". AW augments Priests, and attached prophets are not priests. From memory, this can be confirmed with an XML code walk (or by constructing the matching experiment in world builder).

    I don't think I've looked into this since 3.19, though. What version are we on now?
     
  2. GreenShift84

    GreenShift84 Chieftain

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    You are correct (and still 3.19 I believe):
     
  3. pi-r8

    pi-r8 Luddite

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    This. People often try to be too clever, by thinking that they'll pay a short term loss for a long-term gain. But they don't just how big a short-term loss they're taking- the game is usually over before they can catch up.

    I do really like great prophets at the beginning of the game, though. +5 :gold: and +2 :hammers: is the best value of any settled great person, except maybe the great merchant.
     
  4. Riflin'Joe

    Riflin'Joe Prince

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    Since I seem to be the sole advocate here for bulbing with GPs, here's something else that occurs to me: Theo opens up paper. Start with a GP then switch to scientists, trade your theo for maths and alpha, and you might be at education before you can say Hatshepsut.
     
  5. CaF

    CaF Warlord

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    That seems pretty bad. Going Paper via the religious line means that you skip parts of the line math -> currency -> civil service. And especially not having civil service hurts a lot. I think I tried this once and I still beat myself up for being so stupid.

    Bulbing Theo can give you solid trait bait. You can also decide who builds the AP by trading it to that person. More or less at least. You could also trade it around and let people join theocracy. If for some reason you want to suppress religious spread.
    Bulbing into Divine Right and then getting rid of it can open bulbs into Lib for Artists and Prophets if I'm not completely wrong.

    I usually use the prophets on golden ages, sometimes bulbs. Almost never settle, because I never build Stonehenge/Oracle and thus I never get them in the time frame when they are useful when settled. I rarely shrine anything. Prefer capturing shrines.
     
  6. A_Hamster

    A_Hamster Small Furry Animal

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    So in general, it is better to take a short-term gain in Civ, rather than planning for the long term? I'm not doubting you, since I have seen the advantages of getting a strong start in the Ancient/Classical period, but it seems contradictory in a strategy game.
     
  7. Winsling

    Winsling Chieftain

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    Not quite. Not to put words in pi-r8's mouth, but it's more accurate to say that in the long term, you'll often see greater gains by leveraging a windfall via conquest or tech trading than by taking a small income in place of the windfall. You're still focused on the long term.
     
  8. Riflin'Joe

    Riflin'Joe Prince

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    This seems pretty decent to me for 700 AD, considering the slower pace of tech trading at monarch. (I'm sure others could do this much more efficiently than me, but that's beside the point.)
     

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  9. pi-r8

    pi-r8 Luddite

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    Well I'm not saying "never plan for the long term" of course. Just my general observation that people focus too much on very long-term investments. Short term gains will snowball pretty quickly. A short term gain in the medieval or renaissance period might set you up for a military push which can give you enough land to seal a win.
     
  10. Danelius90

    Danelius90 Hunter (of vegetables)

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    A quote I've seen on this forum at times is "in the long run, we're all dead"
    Its no good planning for something 100 turns down the line when you might suffer from some adverse affects of not taking advantage of something you could have sooner. (so many indirect objects in this sentence :p)
    An early settled GS will certainly pay off in the long term (the techs at the early stage of the game are worth <1000:science:, so you'll definitely see the return)
    obviously, towards the end you have the option of bulbing for around 2-3k:science:, but settling takes close to 100 turns to pay off. If there's not that many left, bulb is no-brainer

    anyway its about analysing priorities and what return you can get. Bulbing philo gives you a good chance of founding Taoism. If you tech you might miss out. Bulbing also allows you to trade those techs, the immediate return can be huge. It might seem counter intuitive, but there's so many variables you can't account for them all.
    don't know if I've been babbling again :p

    on the subject, early settled GP are good for expansion that 5 gold easily covers new city maintenance. They're good to burn for golden ages when they're less useful
     
  11. A_Hamster

    A_Hamster Small Furry Animal

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    Thank you, and also thanks to Winsling and Danelius90. Okay, I see the difference. For example, saving a GE you get from building the Pyramids in 250 BC for Mining Inc is foolish when burning it to get a mid-game wonder at about 500 AD makes your position stronger now. Bulbing an non-military tech at the AI does not prioritize now with for trade bait will give better dividends now than saving the GS to bulb Liberalism 100 turns later.
     

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