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Great Start? NOT!

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Stories & Tales' started by Puppeteer, Mar 12, 2005.

  1. Puppeteer

    Puppeteer Emperor

    Joined:
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    DFW, Texas USA
    I started up a large map last night in C3C. Emperor, 40% water continents, middle choices on the bottom row (4 billion, temperate & warm I think). Roaming barbs. Random civ and random opponents. Standard rules except culturally linked starts off and NoAIPatrol=0 for the barbs.

    I get Dutch (Agri & Seafaring) on the coast with plains tiles, several forest and game. After settling I have desert and incense nearby. No fresh water in sight, but there's bound to be a river a few tiles away. This is a great start! Or so I thought.

    I had bad luck with barbs before I hit pop 2. They got my warrior and hit my city on the turn it went from size 1 to size 2. Oh well, I'll recover with these traits and this start location...

    As I explore I find rivers about 15-20 tiles away! Other than that lots of desert and plains nearby. :(

    After a while I had a city 3 tiles from a Hittite river...I irrigated from there to the city, then had a gang of 4-6 workers irrigate the roadway back to the palace and then throughout the empire. Took a while, of course.

    My first two cities are pushing settlers as fast as their 2 2-food tiles (before the irrigation got there) can push them. Along the way I meet my neighbors the Hittites and Carthage, and I'm trying to keep deals with them to keep them polite. Later I meet the Vikings, Byzanties and French. Barbs manage to kill a sword and settler, then later repeatedly ransack a city for all my money right after the Byzantines hit the middle ages.

    Somewhere in there I managed to eek out a curragh to explore the vast seas. A few turns later it turns out I'm on an inland sea. :mad: And I've already met everyone I see along the shores. But wait...two tiles from my city near the Hittite border is another 1-food coast: the big ocean! I redirect a settler there risking making the Hittites mad by settling on their border. A few turns later I whip the city to finish the galley. A few turns later....another inland sea!!!! Surrounded by the Hittites, so no new contacts. :mad: Each inland sea appears to have more sea on the other side of a thin land bridge, but other civs already own the area and have built there.

    So, agricultural with no cities on rivers, seafaring with ports on inland seas, and I had to bring in irrigation from 1/4 world away. Before that I was quite low on food. Plus bad barb luck.

    On the upside I did grab a horse and an iron. Hittites don't have iron, and Carthage doesn't have horses. I built a road to the Hittites so I could trade my only iron and my incense for tech. 'Course now they'll have swords, but even after reading several brilliant emperor/diety battles against superior AIs I think the Hittites are too much for me to tackle. I may try to attack Carthage since their capitol seems to border yet another sea. The real one this time? I may get dogpiled if I attack, though. I'm doing okay in techs but am behind everyone else.

    I guess I'll see how things progress after my core starts building up now that I'm about done popping settlers and I finally have some food there. At least I have more than one worker per city.
     
  2. fe3333au

    fe3333au Deity

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    Screen Shot would be good
     
  3. Puppeteer

    Puppeteer Emperor

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    Note: Info here is a partial repeat of the first post; no new info except the screenshots, but I wanted to explain them.

    Okay, I happen to have the 4000bc save because I was toying with the popheads graphics, and there are some decent autosaves. Here's the start location: Good, good. All I need is some fresh water nearby and I have an easy emperor win! Until water the game forest and the fish will get me going.


    The hut had barbs which killed my warrior and knocked me back to size 1. No prob with this start, or so I thought. Fast forward to 330BC. After what turned out to be a low food start (no close fresh water), Amsterdam and Rotterdam built granaries and have been pushing settlers every 10 turns or so. Made minimal military to push workers to bring in water which I finally did via the path shown. Not long before this screenshot I realized my starting sea is inland and offers no new contacts. Holwerd was founded and a galley whipped to explore the real sea (?) and make new contacts for tech trading. Hittites and Carthage have been at war a while, and I poached the silks with Middleburg after Hittites destroyed the Carthage city there. Horses are by Utrecht and Iron is by Gronigen. By the way, given the low food start and my seaworthiness I gave up exploring with warriors earlier than usual to bring them home for defense. I'm really counting on sea exploration to fill in my picture of the world.



    About 3 turns later:



    250 AD. Recently completed trade road to Hittites and trade road to Carth due soon. Traded Iron and one of my lone luxes to Hittites for a discount on a tech I brokered to one or two other civs. Most of the civs are middle ages now, and I'm short currency having just dealt for construction. Here's the world map and my "army". Hittites and France seem to have canal cities from the inland cities to the real (?) sea, and the city of Carthage is a canal between two seas. Everyone's building culture fast, so I'm afraid to keep expanding, but I just noticed I may be safe to expand west and perhaps find coast, or I may try to attack Carthage but I'm afraid I'll be dogpiled since I'm behind everyone in tech. I may just deal my lone resources away every 20 turns to Carth and Hittites and hope to avoid wars. Since the 330BC screenshot I founded another city south of the silk city on the river, so I do have two river cities now.



    My units are low because I've been emphasizing settlers and workers to try to make up for the low food start and get water in asap. That's progressing well now. I lost a warrior, an archer, a sword and a settler to barbs, and Haarlen got ransacked repeatedly after the uprising just before I could get the lone warrior camp with a sword. I get periodic tribute demands, and I always cave. I'm not quite sure what I can do from here; I can stay alive but I'm not sure I can win.

    Carth and Hittites signed peace a couple of turns ago. As I mentioned before, Hittites have no iron and Carth has no horses. I have one of each plus one incense and one silk. (Iron and one of the luxes in a deal with Hittites now.) I hate to give the most powerful nation swords (or MDI/knights), but I can't take him, so I might as will sell him the iron lest he conquer it from me.

    Now that I have construction, high priority is getting aqueducts in productive cities and get some population. I keep finding uses for settlers so my first two cities will keep pumping them unless I find a better city to do it.

    EDIT: I think the Hague might be a better settler city as those newly irrigated oasis tiles are 3FPT in despotism for agricultural. Also the river cities might be okay settler makers; at least as good as my first two cities which would be better to let them grow and improve--with shield help by chopping those forests.
     
  4. Nobody

    Nobody Gangster

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    Wellington New Zealand
    cool i like being in situations wheres im going to lose,....... i mean keep it up
     
  5. Puppeteer

    Puppeteer Emperor

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    Okay, since I put this on the story section I'll start keeping a log. I am tempted to abandon this game and start a new one, but I've seen others beat the odds. I might as well play and prove I'm not as good as they are.

    ----- STATUS REPORT -----

    Loading the save: 250BC end-turn. Status: 12 cities, 26 total pop. Units as shown in above screenshot. I know 5 civs and have embassies with all. Scandanavia and france are at war--Hittites declared on scandanavia a while back and drug France into it, but this is the only war left. I'm the only one with a trade route--to Hittites. A Carthage route should open soon. I was mistaken earlier--I have Currency but am short Code of Laws and the optional techs.

    Not sure if I mentioned it before, but I researched writing at minimum from the start, but 3 or so of my rivals finished it just as I did, so it wasn't quite the trading bonanza I'd hoped. Haven't spent any gold on direct research since.

    Interestingly Carthage is short on culture like me. Only Hittites seem to be power runaways; I'm surprised to see I'm not too short on the power graph compared to the others. Last in score, of course.

    Deals: Iron, Incense and 2gpt to Hittites for 16 turns. 18gpt to France for 3 turns. 5gpt to Carthage for 16 turns. All tech deals.

    Gold: 31 in treasury (if I let it build up they demand tribute), 52 income, -25 to other civs, -12 corruption, -3 maintenance for +12 net gain.

    I have a clown in The Hague, but I should be able to shuffle troops for MP duty.

    Other Civs: Hittites: 14 cities, up CoL and Lit, no native iron. Carthage: 10 cities, tech parity (!), lacks horses. France: 12 cities, up CoL, lacks horses. Scandanavia: 12 cities, lacks Currency, but only 31g. Byantines: 12 cities, up CoL & Lit, has 1469g! They've been the tech leaders so far.

    I'm surprised to see that I'm roughly even with the AI in number of cities. Maybe there's hope after all. My income per capita is #1, but I expect my population is lower thus my overall income is lower.

    My palace has grass and a stone front facade.

    Since the 330BC empire screenshot I've added the town of Delft S,S,SW of Middleburg. It started a temple and is nearly hooked up to the road network.

    ----- STRATEGY -----

    Hittites are strong on culture, but I may still be able to settle quickly to the west and have the southern inland sea keep his culture away from me. I may even be able to settle the western coast of the real sea (?) in 2 settlers. This isn't as bad as I thought. I think the desert is keeping the AI away, but I'm agricultural so irrigated desert = irrigated plains for me, and I have 13 workers. I'm planning city locations; I'll settle the floodplain and then the costal hill next. HEY! I have a settler/warrior pair nearly there already!

     
  6. Puppeteer

    Puppeteer Emperor

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    ----- GAMELOG -----

    250 BC end of turn: Change Middleburg from Temple to settler, MM for food. (No culture worries from Carthage yet, and it's on a river for extra food.) Change The Hague from barracks to Granary for settler pumping (has 2 3fpt tiles now). Move warrior from Groningen to Hague for MP, hire clown in Groningen. (I hate clowns, but slider is too expensive for now.) Groningen is my iron city and now undefended, but I will remedy that soon and hope Mursilis stays happy with me. Change Eindhoven from Sword in one to Settler in one. Hurts especially since I traded my iron away, but city is size 4 and I need more settlers. I'll make warriors for MP since I can't handle a real war, anyway. Rotterdam changed from settler to Aqueduct. Holwerd changed from Galley to warrior--don't need another galley on the southern inland sea.

    IT: Crap. Carthage settler/N.Mercenary pair heading to my westward expansion site. Incans (unmet) build Hanging Gardens.

    230 BC: Decide to send my western settler pair directly to sea. Settler just completed in Eindhoven will take the FP in between. Amsterdam Settler -> Aqueduct. Eindhoven settler -> warrior.

    IT: Carth settler heads west towards "my" coast.

    210 BC: Some workers finish various irrigation tasks and head back to palace to being core irrigation and forestry to support infrastructure builds. 2 workers begin road/irrigation trail westward. Crud, Vikings traded for tech and now have 514 gold. Shoulda taken the 31g for Currency I guess. Carthage and I are the only ones lacking AA techs.

    IT: 18gpt deal with France expires, trade road to Carthage completed.

    190 BC: Utrecht Sword -> Aqueduct. 3 Hittite Archers are on the hill I want to settle. Move to FP coast instead, but Carth will probably settle and claim that tile IT. Can now trade resources w/Carthage, but they are at tech parity. I don't need literature because I'm not researching for a while; I can't afford Monarchy yet, but I'll trade for CoL so I have MA techs available to broker next deal. Perhaps Carthage will get one soon. France gives best offer for CoL, talk her down to 16gpt plus 38g. Sell CoL to Carthage for all 48g because of the Viking incident--better 48g than nothing. Byzantines have Engineering; no one else has MA techs yet, and not all have the optionals. Nobody has Republic! Start 1 scientist gambit on Monotheism. Long shot, but what the heck; the AI will go for Republic and then Chivalry so why not try?

    IT: Carth doesn't settle! They move SE. Hittites make me nervous with troop movement, but only a settler/spear pair invade my territory.

    170 BC: I want that hill, but Hittite archers are still on it. Decide to settle Breda now on FP and start Galley; MM for food since I'll whip the galley at size 2. 2nd Settler is in place to settle the closer FP city. Actually 2 settlers; I'm not sure where the second one is going yet.

    150 BC: Settle Leiden, set to worker. --By the way, I always confuse silks and dyes. I have dyes, but I said earlier I have silks.-- Send settler by himself west of Leiden--risky, but maybe I can beat Carthage to some dyes SW.

    IT: Hittites make me nervous, but my rush to the southern sea isolated one of their cities, so they have to tromp through my territory. Get FP message. The Hague riots: D'OH! Scroll ahead, but they're the only ones. Forestry gives 10 shields to Amsterdam--or maybe Rotterdam. Whatever, both aqueducts.

    130 BC: Eindhoven warrior -> Temple. Worker irrigating newly cleared game. Send a 2nd warrior to MP The Hague. Settler could stop 1 turn and have a sword escort, but the race is on, so settler goes ahead naked. I hope Hittites like their iron, gpt and incense. Leidin is connected by road; only Breda is not on the trade network. Short-rush Temple in Delft using Settler; I think I'll make this my FP city after the temple as it has lots of river tiles and some hills; a little short on food for a great future city, but so are all my cities. If I had more gold maybe I could broker Monarchy, but I can't afford it yet at 89g, 14gpt.

    Wonder Check: Byzantines are working on SoZ and GrLib. Hittites and Vikings working on GrLib. all other wonders built.

    IT: Okay, French are building GL, too.

    110 BC: Middleburg Settler -> Temple.

    IT: Byzantines building Sun Tzu's. (Got Chivalry just now.) Forest chopped; 10 shields to Arnheim towards temple.

    90 BC: Hague Granary -> Settler. Pushed my luck far enough with the settler; settle Den Helder just S of the mountain & set to worker. Hittite settler pair is heading into my lands; think I'll settle a fort to fill one of my two culture gaps; move settler onto forest 2SW of Eindhoven. Lux to 10% for Utrecht. Byzantine has Chivalry but no trading seems to have taken place. Still can't affort Monarchy. Buy a slave from Carthage for 108g; if I save gold someone will demand it soon.

    IT: LOL, Vikings demand all of my 10g. Told you. Cave, and they're polite. Hittite settler pair doubles back S out of my territory.

    70 BC: Carthage has Lit; can't broker it to anyone else and don't need it. Since Hittite settler doubled back, move settler and warrior west to settle near Carthage.

    50 BC: Haarlem Harbor -> Aqueduct. Holwerd Warrior -> Worker. Settler pair west. Worker stuff.

    IT: France offers RoP for Alliance against Carthage...I counterpropose and offer them 10g tribute. (I like to make a trade whenever someone contacts me; don't know if it helps keep them polite but I think it might.)

    30 BC: Amsterdam Aqueduct -> Marketplace. Rotterdam Aqueduct -> Temple. Groningen Temple -> Horseman. Arnhem Temple -> Catapult. No new techs. I have a trade route to Byzantines? Through the Hitties apparently as they have an active trade with Byzantines, but why doesn't Carthage have a trade route through me and Hittites? (May also be through my harbor, but same question with Carth.) I have no resources Byzantines don't, but maybe Incense after the Hittite deal ends.

    IT: Hittites building SoZ. Guess they got some ivory from Byzantines. That Carthage settler is heading further south than I expected..they're 3.5 tiles S and 0.5 tiles W of Den Helder.

    10 BC: Settler NW...looks like I get this spot uncontested.

    IT: Carthage settles by southern inland sea, completely cut off by my culture borders. Hittites have two settler pairs heading west south of my culture bridge to the west coast.

    10 AD: Settle Harlingen close to Carth borders, set to worker. Lux to 20% for Haarlem. Move taxman to Leiden.

    IT: Carthage tells me to leave their territory. Huh?

    30 AD: Utrecht Aqueduct -> Temple. Ah, that Galley in the southern sea is fortified in what is now Carth territory. Move it back towards Holwerd; consider using it to settle accross the sea on some nice tiles but isolated--will probably lose to Hittites, though. Whip galley in Breda: Is this the REAL ocean? (1 pop for 20 shields; I timed it well.) I have a trade route to vikings; through Carthage & france or my harbor. Carthage still has no route to Byzantines but can trade with everyone else (except France--war). France has routes to no one but owns some coast tiles, and a barb galley is blocking coast tiles in the other direction, so I guess trade with the Byzantines is through my harbor and France's coastal tiles. If I knock out that barb galley I have coast tiles crossing the big inland sea. A low priority since I've got better things to build than galleys. (My exploratory curraghs in the big sea were sunk by this same barb long ago.)

    IT: Now I'm in Hittite territory. Must be the galley again. Apologize and grovel. 3 cities expand borders: Arnhem, Groningen and apparently Amsterdam. This closes my culture gap NW of Hague; another gap is by Utrecht but that should be remedied in about 6 turns from the Maastricht temple due next turn.

    50 AD: Leiden worker -> Temple. Galley from Breda finds Hittite Galley! I think that's a good sign because the AI seems to avoid building ships on inland seas in my experience. Hittite archers are blocking my irrigating worker towards Breda, but my roading worker starts the last road link; worker passes and will continue after Hittites move. I haven't traded in a while; offer 10g to Byzantines and Vikings; Byzantines go from annoyed to cautious and Vikes go from cautious to polite; everyone else is polite.

    Strategy Break: Carthage will go RoP with me and give me all his 6g, so I guess I'm bigger than he. Heh, I can get Literature with Horses and RoP, but I don't need Lit and can't broker it. Carthage has been pounded by Hittites and France and I may be able to take them with a buildup. They haven't got much to offer anyone else to ally against me. I think I'll sign RoP with them and explore their territory and beyond and see how badly France is pounding them. I'm keeping the horses until I can get a real tech for them, though. Other than that my strategy is to keep building up my core and plopping a settler here and there. And the biggie is to find the other continent with my 4-move galley. Sumerians (unmet) have GreatLighthouse, so they and Portugal (unmet) have 4-move galleys, too. Iroquois and Incas are two unmet rivals who built wonders. I guess I still have 2 unknown civs out there somewhere, but I haven't been watching F11.

    IT: Barb galley off my coast goes East after millenia of sitting still. Vikings building SoZ. Heh, good luck with that.

    70 AD: Whoops, I was going to sign RoP with Carthage; do so now and take their 7g. Maastricht Temple -> Aqueduct. Shuffle troops a bit and send a Sword--the closest troop--towards Carthage to scout around. I think I have just enough troops for 1 per city plus one extra. My galley has to move only 3 because of a Hittite galley.

    90 AD: My galley again is hindered by the 3-move Hittite Galley; I'm tailgaiting. BTW, I chose to follow the coast West for possible civs beyond France & Carthage and a wraparound route to an Eastern continent. A settler pair is moving to free space between Breda and Den Helder. Hmm, sometime I lost my scientist and didn't notice; I have no research going.

    Trade Routes: I thought the barb galley moving might change routes, but it didn't. Aha! I see: Carthage hasn't met the Byzantines yet, duh. So I still don't know if trade is going through my harbor or through the Hittites. I should try to send a galley out and see where the harbors are, but again infrastructure is higher priority.

    Trade Talk: Ooh, AI had a trade orgy. Carth is still up Lit. Byzantines and Vikings up Republic and everyone but Carth is also up Monarchy, Feudalism and Engineering. Everyone up Lit of course. My gpt & resource deals w/ Carth and Hittites expired and Hitties are annoyed. I can get Monarchy from the Hittites for Iron and Dyes but I can't retrade except for Lit. I can't seem to afford Republic yet. My 16gpt deal w/France expires in 6 turns; I think I'll take a chance and wait to see if I can afford and broker Republic then; it's risky, but those short Republic are broke and just traded for other techs.

    90 AD Continued: Offer 20g to Hittites, they go from annoyed to Polite (whew!).

    110 AD: Arnhem Catapult -> Sword. Catapult moves toward Carthage for storage. Settler pair moves on to BG--hate to settle on BG, but I can take a 2nd dye and not push Hittite's border too hard. Galley finally moves 4 alongside the Hittite galley. Carthage has Monarchy--they must've researched it themselves, so I may not have been able to broker Monarchy for Lit after all. Lux to 10% because I have my dye back from the Hittites (probably could have done this last turn). Forgot about my research gambit again; can't find a good place for a scientist so I bump research to 10%. 38 turns to Monotheism, but it's probably too late.

    IT: Sumerians finish Great Library. Byzantines building Sun Tzu's.

    130 AD: Settle Lauwersoog, set to Temple. Galley passes slower Hittite Galley.

    IT: French and Vikings are building Sun Tzu. Hittites building SoZ and Sun Tzu. Hittite finishes SoZ. Culture expands at Maastricht closing my culture hole.

    150 AD: Holwerd Worker -> Sword. Lux to 20% for Hague.

    IT: Vikes building Sun Tzu.

    170 AD: Rotterdam Temple -> Marketplace. Eindhoven Temple -> Aqueduct.

    190 AD: Hague Settler -> Settler. Groningen Horseman -> Horseman. Lux to 10%. Checking AI techs every turn...2 of 5 have Republic, and my gpt deal with France ends next turn so I'll have 39gpt available. Crossing fingers...

    210 AD: Delft Temple -> FP. Harlingen Worker -> Warrior. The galley has passed a western peak; I'm more likely to make more contacts to the west, but I think I'll continue following the coast to define the continent I'm on and send a second or third galley on the suicide runs--oops, barb galley--stop 1 move short to fortify. I missed a Den Helder worker build 5 turns back; left him as worker but think I'll change to catapult.

    Trade time: Still can't afford republic at 39gpt, 178g and dyes to Vikes. :( I move lux and research to 0 and hire a few taxmen and can make the deal: 59gpt plus 168g for Republic. I'll have 3 civs to trade to but can't revolt until I have the cash to cover the payments. I may bankrupt and upset my empire, but here goes nothing: I make the deal. Ouch, Replublic isn't as dealable as I thought. I trade iron and republic to Hittites for Engineering, Lit and all their 88g. I might swith Feudalism with more gold to them, but I need some cash and am taking what I can get. Oh good, Carthage has gpt to trade: trade republic for 13gpt (his max) and all his 30g. Could get Monarchy also if I throw in horses or use Engineering, but I don't need Monarchy. Can't make a deal with France for Feudalism. Would rather have had Feudalsim, but I can't handle a war and am trading away iron anyway, so I went with what I could afford.

    210 AD Continued: Fire all the taxmen, lux to 30%, sci to 10%. 128g now with net -18gpt. I can't revolt because I'll be at -46gpt with trades. Instead of conserving money I'll blow through it and go for growth for now, then I can think about saving up and revolting.

    IT: Galley attacked by 2 barb galleys, promotes and ends up at 2/4.

    230 AD: Middleburg Temple -> Granary. Treasury 110g, -18gpt.

    IT: Culture expands in Eindhoven. (No real effect.) Hittite settler/spear pair heads into my territory.

    250 AD: Amsterdam Marketplace -> Temple. Utrecht Temple -> Marketplace. Whip galley in Breda. Galley explores inlet N of Carthage, Sword sees France is whipping Carthage (the civ, not the city). Treasury 92g, -17gpt. Wow, that market isn't helping much yet. Breda is crying about being whipped. Assign a scientist, sci to 0%. We'll short whip 'em next turn. :mischief: Treasury 92g, -13gpt.

    IT: Hittite spear pair doubles back. Indecisive, are we? See Carth/French fighting. French has the numbers but Carth got favorable RNG.
     
  7. Puppeteer

    Puppeteer Emperor

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    260 AD: Arnhem Sword -> Aqueduct. New Galley sees barb and fortifies. Can't short rush in Breda yet so keep scientist. 79g/-13gpt.

    IT: Carth offers anti-French alliance straight up. Um, no, here's 10g. Barb attacks 2nd galley redlining it. Hittite settler pair back in my territory...you put your left foot in, you put your left foot out... Byzantines are building Leonardo's (just got invention I guess).

    270 AD: Settle Enschede on west coast near Breda, set to galley. Short rush in Breda using archer then back to galley...hmm, the one citizen is unhappy (crybaby) so leave him as scientist--galley in 10. See another barb, send 2nd galley back home to heal. Hire taxman in Haarlem for happiness. 56g,-7gpt.

    IT: Middleburg culture expands. Vikes building Leo's.

    280 AD: Send 2nd warrior to MP Amsterdam, sword to Hague for MP.

    IT: France asks me to remove troops...sword or galley, not sure which. Utrecht culture expands claiming a mountain and more coast.

    290 AD: 2nd galley sets sail again. Change Den helder to Temple. 44g,-5gpt.

    IT: Hittites ask for troop removal (galley). Barb galley approaches mine but is too slow.

    300 AD: Haarlem Aqueduct -> Temple. Joan has a trade route with the Vikes now. 39g,-6gpt.

    310 AD: Rotterdam Marketplace -> Harbor. Eindhoven Aqueduct -> Barracks. First galley sees possible coast to north of French land...can make it there next turn safely. 33g,-5gpt.

    IT: Hittites move lots of 3-man chariots that were wandering towards the souther Carth city cut off by my borders I think. Hittites may be about to take it.

    320 AD: Groningen Horseman -> Aqueduct. Settle Tilburg in former Carth territory, set to Temple. 1st galley makes it to island, sees Vike-colored border. Hire taxman in Leiden for happiness. I have a trade route with France. She'll give me Iron for Republic, but my horses + republic isn't good enough for Feudalism. 28g,-2gpt.

    IT: Hittites forces double back.

    330 AD: Amsterdam Temple -> Harbor. Maastricht Aqueduct -> Courthouse. Harlingen Warrior -> Temple. 1st galley finds vike city AND...CHINESE city!! Oh my, they're very very backwards: I'm up Math, Phil, CoL, Lit and Polytheism plus the aftertechs. They have iron but no horses and no lux. 8 cities. I think they're stuck on a tundra island. He knows the Vikes and me. It would cost 112g for an embassy which I can't afford. Mao has 6g and no gpt to trade. Hannibal has 8gpt to trade, so I trade Engineering for 8gpt and 4g. Couldn't get monarchy too without losing gold. Gift Lit to China, they go from Annoyed to Polite...maybe they'll build some libraries and research for me after some more gifting. Whip 2 pop for temple in Leiden, 1/3 unhappy so hire taxman. 30g,+4gpt...I'll stop per-turn treasury updates since the crunch is over.

    IT: Byzantines want my galley out. So does China. Sumerians finish Sun Tzu. Byzantines building Leo's...again. Fire Breda scientist, change Leiden taxman to scientist.

    340 AD: Leiden Temple -> Trebuchet.

    IT: Guess I was wrong about the AI and inland seas because a Carthage galley is sailing by in the big sea. Vikes building Leo's again (?).

    350 AD: Rotterdam Harbor -> Galley. Taxman in Hague for 1 turn (happiness).

    360 AD: Arnhem Aqueduct -> Courthouse. Holwerd Sword -> Horseman.

    370 AD: Amsterdam Harbor -> Barracks. Eindhoven Barracks -> Horseman. Breda Galley -> Galley. New galley will suicide off the westernmost point of this continent. My RoP 20-turn is recently over with Carthage, but it's still going turn to turn. Good.

    380 AD: 2nd dye roaded up. Lux to 20%, only specialist is now scientist in Haarlem. Short-rush archer in Breda then back to galley in 10. Scandanavia's making me nervous. Two archers are headed through French and Carthage territory Southward and a galley just stopped offshore; I have 59gpt to him for 5 more turns. Not much else I can do but hope. Den Helder: rush barracks, switch to temple and rush temple.

    IT: Portugese finish Sistene Chapel. Ack! Sumerians finish Knights Templar. My continent doesn't seem to have those techs yet, so my gambit may yet pay off.

    390 AD: Rotterdam Galley -> Barracks. Den Helder Temple -> Trebuchet.

    400 AD: Utrecht Marketplace -> Horseman.

    410 AD: Eindoven Horseman -> Horseman. Horse to Haarlem, fire the scientist there and hire one in Lauwersoog. Settle Zwolle N,NW of Breda on fresh coast and sea coast and chokepoint to Carth's western lands, set to Galley. Carth has some gpt available; I was going to sell him dyes, but after thinking about it I want him to buy Feudalism so I can buy it from him for dyes, horses and money.

    420 AD: Amsterdam Barracks -> Horseman. Hague Settler -> Settler. Suicide galley west, nothing sighted. Wow, China embassy is cheaper now: buy it for 67g...heh, they built a library...good boy. Soon I may gift him to republic and he'll be my research puppy. Hire taxman in Amsterdam for happiness.

    IT: Byzantines ask me to remove galley. Den Helden expands culture. Sumerians build Compernicus!! Guess we'll have contact with them soon.

    430 AD: Suicide Galley continues West, sees sea 2 tiles away and probably coast beyond! Sell Philosophy to China for 8g. Most incoming gpt deals end. Start the revolution! 6 turns. Hire lots of clowns, some taxmen and one scientist. At least two cities will starve. Offer Byzantines 20g, they go from annoyed to polite. Gift 10g to Hittites and Vikes cautious to polite. Gift Math, Poly and Republic to China. Still polite? Can't please everyone. Gift them currency and construction. Gift them Engineering. I want them to research something I can buy; I already know the other continent is way ahead of us so I'm not worried about China getting all the spoils of our techs in trade with the other continent if they know them.

    440 AD: Hmm, notice Hittites have iron now; either they found some or are getting it form Byzantines with whom they have an active trade. Suicide galley lives and meets the Iroquois! Yeehah! :dance: They have Monotheism and Feudalism but not Engineering. Think I'll wait and see if I meet someone else soon so Mono isn't at monopoly. Funny, you can't build embassies in anarchy apparently, but I doubt I could afford it anyway.

    IT: Vikes, annoyed, ask me to leave (inland sea galley). Same w/Iroquois. France too (1st galley back from China to northern French lands), but polite.

    450 AD: Hague riots. Scroll ahead says I didn't miss anyone but adjust some citizens. Gift 20g to Vikes annoyed to cautious. Gift 20g to Byz annoyed to polite.

    460 AD: Gift 20g to Iroquois annoyed to cautious.

    IT: Byzantines, annoyed, demand 20g...certainly. Now cautious.

    480 AD: Settle Gouda on western coast between Hittite and Carth cities, set to galley.

    IT: Crap! Vikes, annoyed, demand dyes. Well, okay. :gripe: At least they're polite.

    490 AD: Breda riots. I'm now a Republic. Redistribute workers, lux to 30%. Galley meets Sumeria! :dance: He also lacks Engineering but has Monotheism.

    Trade Orgy: Trade him Engineering for Monotheism and 1233g. Sumer has the Great Lib, but it's obsolete for them so I don't have to be too careful with trades. Trade Mono to France for Feudalism and 65g. Get Invention from Vikes for Mono and 493g. Wow, both Vikes and Byzantines have gunpowder, but no one else. Get Theology from Iroquois for Engineering and 583g. Trade Invention to Iroquois for Chivalry, Education and 323g. Hiawatha is now up only Monarchy, but Sumer has Music, Banking and Astronomy. Trade Mono to Byz for 7gpt (she must be researching it; she won't give ivory for it). Trade Theology to Vikes for Gunpowder, 29gpt and 255g. Trade Theo to Byz for Ivory, 28gpt and RoP...she's gracious. Trade Invention to Sumer for Monarchy, 110g and 5gpt (all available gold). Trade Gunpowder and 511g to Sumer for Banking.

    Tech summary: Everyone but China has Monarchy. I'm up Chivalry and Education on Vikes and Byz. I'm up Theo, Chiv and Invention on France. I'm up Mono and Invention on Carth and Hittites. China is still barely MA. I'm up Gunpowder and Banking on Iroqois. Sumer is up Muic Theory and Astronomy. Vikes have no Saltpeter but Byz does.

    [party] :band:

    490 AD Continued: Build embassy w/Iroquois for 109g. Same w/Sumer for 110g. One more trade: Gunpowder to Iroquois for all their money: 270g and 25gpt; if I didn't do it Sumer or others on their continent would. They have no Saltpeter. Lux to 20%, fire the scientist. No research. Change lots of builds. Rush Temple in Zwolle, Harlingen and Lauwersoog. Disband galley in southern inland sea since it costs money now. After all that, 46g and +205gpt

    IT: See some red guys on other continent enter and leave sight. Sumer asks removal. Sumer building Leo's.

    500 AD: Groningen Aqueduct -> Market. Harlingen Temple -> Courthouse. Lawersoog Temple -> Worker. Zwolle Temple -> Galley. Upgrade vet horse to knight. Disband large inland sea galley in Haarlem. Disband warrior in Rotterdam. Can't find the red guys and don't have contact with them.

    Time to get some sleep. Well, I'll make and post some screenshots first.

    EDIT: Added bold and extra smileys so skim-readers can find the highlights.
     
  8. Puppeteer

    Puppeteer Emperor

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    Well, I managed to survive and even came out as second in tech. If I can stay out of war a while longer I may be able to build up a defensive military, and now I'm Republic and can build banks.

    The core empire:

    The western empire:
     
  9. Puppeteer

    Puppeteer Emperor

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    My army (cough cough) and map of the known world. I never paid support in despotism; I usually had about half the allowed troops. As of now I have enough troops to occupy each city and then less than 5 extra. Plus the galleys, workers and a cat.


    I'm way behind in culture:


    That's it for now. I know I'm not the best storyteller. I'll watch the read count and responses to see if anyone even cares I'm posting this.
     
  10. k-a-bob

    k-a-bob Waiting patiently.......

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    That is one scary looking culture graph!

    Also, I don't need much storytelling - just your plans and how things are going! I'll be interested if you keep updating!
     
  11. Puppeteer

    Puppeteer Emperor

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    Thanks k-a-bob! And thanks Nobody, I think.

    Advisor meeting:

    Science Advisor: Ladies and gentlemen, I'm pleased to announce that having gained contact with the new world, Prime Minister William set off a series of negotiations with all known countries and managed to trade research secrets so that we are second in knowledge to the New World Sumerians. We are no longer half an age behind our neighbors on our homeland.

    Foreign Advisor: And even though we have surpassed our neighbors suddenly they are so blinded by their new secrets that they are all happy with us.

    Military Advisor, running in late: I've just come from the palace.

    The rest: What news from Amsterdam? What does the William command?

    Military Advisor passes on the simple command given to him by William in a deep, sinister voice that rolled throughout the room like cold, dark fog--such an attitude has never been known of the leader in recorded history of the Netherlands--"Build me an army worthy of Amsterdam!"

    STATUS

    There are three civs yet unmet. I saw some troops from one interturn but they passed through mountains and didn't see me. Looking at the world map I think there may yet be another isolated civ on their own island. I bet they're doing better than China. BTW, Iroquois and Sumer know each other of course but no one else I know. China knows the Vikes and me. Carthage finally met Byzantines.

    STRATEGY TALK

    My first reaction at shooting forward in tech and getting banking was to start building: banks and cathedrals coming up. However I don't want to turtle until someone declares on me. I'm thinking I should pick someone, build an army and attack to gain some land and resources.

    Carthage has been at war constantly since the early AA with the Hittites and then France. Carthage is the worse for it, but France and Hittites have been outpaced tech and moneywise by Vikes and Byzantines. City of Carthage and my Zwolle would make a double canal giving me to the real sea both north and south...not a big deal after I think about it, but the western Carth lands have ivory and jungle and coast near the Sumer/Iroquois continent.

    Neither Carth nor France has allied with anyone, so I don't think they have much to offer the other civs. Hittites may be in the same boat but I think they're friendlier with Byzantine than I am. The Vikings are bound to declare on someone sooner or later; I'll have to be prepared to rebuff them before I attack anyone.

    Okay, the general plan is to build Knights, Trebuchets and Swiss Mercenaries and attack Carthage. France is probably next but possibly the Hittites. I expect to wipe out Carthage but may leave the others alive if it suits me at the time.

    I can't see all of Carthage's land, and he doesn't have gunpowder yet, but I don't see Saltpeter for him. There is some fogged desert still, though.

    The FP build is well underway in Delft, but that looks like a great place for my palace. If I move the palace there my FP would probably be better off in Carth lands in a river system--maybe by his iron mountain--3 hills and jungle are nearby leading to the possibility of an Ironworks city in the future. The FP is 35 turns away, or Delft could build a knight in 2 without wasting the build so far. Palace build would be 85 turns, but I'll wait for a leader to jump the palace. ...thinking... Okay, I'll build a reg knight in Delft and set Rotterdam (now bank) to FP in 16 turns. Delft will be the palace city when I get a leader.

    Saltpeter: I don't need it until cavs due to my 1.4.1 pikeman UU, but I'll want to protect it for trading.

    War build plans: 3 cities have barracks and will produce knights or maybe Swiss Mercenaries depending on build waste. Other cities will build Trebuchet and possibly reg Swiss Merc. Someone--probably Harlingen--will build settlers. Lesser cities may build courthouse, culture or workers or help with the army at my whim. I may sneak a bank or two in to core cities because I love money, but I'll try to resist especially with barracks cities.

    Foreign relations and tech: Sumer will probably meet other civs soon since he's at least to Astronomy. No one has PP yet. Hopefully I can maintain my tech with trades even after Sumer meets my contient. I'll try to ally with France when attacking Carth and keep the other civs happy with trades and gifts. Hitties have been nice so far, but they're running out of land I think. Vikes are always ornery. I must be ready for harrassment or all out war on a second front--or for that matter a first front until my army is ready.

    I have RoP with Carth...I'll keep it until near time to attack and finish exploring his land until then.

    GAME LOG

    500 AD Continued: Change Delft from FP to Knight in 2. Change Rotterdam from Bank to FP in 16....um....or not. Apparently some of the collected shields are from a forest chop and I can't make an FP out of it. Change of plan: Delft to Marketplace, Rotterdam to barracks wasting 8 shields. Screw the FP, we'll make troops faster and rush an FP with the second leader or decide to build it along the way. Holwerd changed to Swiss Merc wasting 1 shield. Groningen to SM. Upgrade reg horse to knight. Some troop shuffling. Toy with lux but back at 20% and sci 0%.

    That's all for now. I actually slept more than 4 hours last night.
     
  12. Puppeteer

    Puppeteer Emperor

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    Screenshot notes with somewhat redundant captions:

    Empire planning and new builds. Delft was building FP due in 35, but I decided it's the perfect place for the palace presuming a Carthage conquest is in the works. I could build the palace in 85 but decided to wait for a leader. Rotterdam (SE) could have build FP in 16 if it didn't have forest-cut shields in its box. I wasted 8 shields plus the build turn to make a barracks since it's a 10spt city and can make knights as fast as Amsterdam. The other two rax cities are 7spt which is okay for a 70g knight. I couldn't find another place I thought would make a decent FP in my current lands without tying up a barracks city so I gave up and decided to wait for leader #2 or a more opportune time to build--leader #1 will move the palace to Delft. I hate putting off the FP, but I want to build for war now.

    I wanted Trebuchets but decided I needed defenders first, so most non-rax cities are SM builds. The surviving non military builds I decided would be better to finish what they're building rather than waste shields or build regular knights. They will all likely go to military after finishing the current build.

    Leptis Magna is circled as a good spot for an FP. It is Carthage's source of iron and has jungle and 3 hills in its borders so it has a more than minimal chance of being an Ironworks city. I guess the iron will be my first pillage target or the iron city will be my first conquest.

    3 cities around Delft--Middleburg, Harlingen and Leiden--are on rivers. Eindhoven, Groningen and The Hague already have aqueducts, so the future core will be well populated when the palace moves.

    In the minimap, I'm yellow, Carthage is brown to the west, France is pink to the north and Hitties are bluegreen to the south. I believe the Hittites to be the strongets militarily because Carth and France have been at war for millenia.

    Of course I haven't had my GA yet. The war will likely trigger one for me giving me a boost for infrastructure builds or reinforcements.

    Wonder check: Neither Carthage nor France have wonders. Uh-oh, Hitties have the Statue of Zeus. And Pyramids. I'll have to think about this today and wonder if it requires a change in plans to either attack Hittites first or second instead of third.



    EDIT: Afterthought: If I got Byzantine to ally against Hittites, all their trade routes would be cut off, including ivory for Ancient Cavs, but they probably have quite a few of those already. I want Carthage first, but I may need to beat down Hittites before they get gunpowder and MT or they'll be that much harder to deal with later. Interestingly enough, my "power" graph is as large as everyone but Sumer. Note the jump at the end:

     
  13. Puppeteer

    Puppeteer Emperor

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    After mulling it over, the Hittites need to be clobbered before MT and preferably before gunpowder. Ideally I could get Vikes and Byz fighting each other to keep them from peacefully growing in power, but I'm not sure about fighting Hittites and watching my back, too.

    I may want to grap Leptis Major and maybe a couple of straggler cities and Carthage in a short war to warm up my troops and prepare my future 2nd ring and FP city. Carthage isn't a culture worry like the Hittites.

    Looking closer at Hittites, they're not as big as I thought, and I was worried about a huge southern front, but if I knock out Kadesh and Karhuyuk quickly the southern inland sea creates two small fronts between me and the Hittite empire.

    But first I need an army worthy of the task.

    IT: Hittites building Leo's.

    510 AD: Rotterdam Barracks -> Knight. Middelburg Granary -> SM. Holwerd SM -> SM. Send 2nd galley now around the eastern peak on suicide run east; sea and likely coast spotted reachable next turn. Upgrade 2 reg sword to MDI.

    IT: Iroquois and Inca sign peace treaty. (Don't know Incas, didn't know Iroquois was at war.) Sumer building Smiths (!)--oh, that's branched off of banking; they just got Eco this turn.

    520 AD: Suicide galley lives, makes it to coast and finds Iroquois borders on what may be a small island. Upgrade 4 reg warrior to MDI.

    530 AD: Breda riots. Oops. They're still crying about being whipped. Have a taxman. Upgrade last reg horse to knight. Upgrade 2 reg sword to MDI. Yup, Iroquois city on small isle.

    IT: Culture expands in Haarlingen, Zwolle and Lauwresoog, my palace gets a 2nd floor.

    540 AD: Enshed Galley -> Galley. 1st galley heads towards small Iroquois isle in suicide fashion. Upgrade reg warrior to MDI. I now have "average" military compared to Carthage and China, weak to others. Progress. Fire taxman in Breda, down to 50% crying about whips.

    IT: Hittites ask for troop removal (galley). Red knight stops in view of my galley.

    550 AD: Several unit builds finish. Hello, Incas! They're annoyed; I'm up Invention and Banking. They have furs, spices, silks and gems, 23 gold. Build embassy for 134g--very productive capitol on all counts, and 5 luxes w/marketplace. This is a happy empire. They know Sumer and Iroquois but no one else I know. Incas are cautious after embassy. See what they offer for Invention...20g; they have no gpt to trade. Just noticed, I recently passed France in score, already ahead of Carthage and China. I have yet to meet the portugese. Upgrade cat to trebuchet. Upgrade reg sword to MDI. Galley survived the sea and is safe on coast again (3 for 3 so far!)

    560 AD: couple of knights finish. Arnhem Courthouse -> SM, MM for 11spt from 9spt. Upgrade reg war to MDI.

    IT: Ir request withdrawal.

    570 AD: Hague Aqueduct -> SM. Haarlem Temple -> SM. Delft Market -> SM. Lux to 30% for Leiden. Hittites annoyed, gift them 20g now polite--I'm not ready for them to get ornery yet.

    IT: Inca requests my absence. LOL, France offers RoP to attack Carth. Actually I was just thinking about attacking Carth, but I don't want a 20-turn alliance; counterpropose and gift her 10g. France has Leptis Magna.. So much for taking it from Carth.

    580 AD: Maastricht Market -> SM. Upgrade 2 reg warrior to MDI. Upgrade vet sword to MDI. We now have strong military compared to Carthage and China, average to France, Iroquois, Vikes, weak to the rest.

    Economy update: 554g, +213gpt including several incoming gpt deals for 11 more turns.

    Culture check: Incas are behind Sumer, Byzantines and Hitties. I'm above Carth and Iroquois.

    Power: My blip increase on the previous power graph kept its position. Incas and Sumer are top on the power graph followed closely by Hittites and then me.

    I have 12 cities size >6 (my core, 2nd ring and Leiden) with another one (Harlingen) due in 3 turns. My army support is going down, not up. :)

    Army screenshot next post.
     
  14. Puppeteer

    Puppeteer Emperor

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    2 Knights are reg, the rest are vet. 1 MDI is vet. All other land units are regular. The slave was bought.

    I want more trebuchets but need the SMs for defense first. Next set of turns I may consider building some vet SMs, use the non-rax cities for trebuchets and then build more knights after I'm happy with my SM divisions.

    The first 3 real sea galleys are around the new world. The other two are working their way around the southern shores eastward; they'll probably suicide into the unexplored SE where I expect to find Portugal.

     
  15. Puppeteer

    Puppeteer Emperor

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    It occurred to me today I could jump the palace by abandoning Amsterdam, but I'd have to starve at least 9 citizens and lose Amsterdam's 11. Nah.

    I also keep reading here that you don't need defensive troops in Republic, but I'm exposed on all sides, and Vikes are nearby with their Berserkers. I might could leave Eindhoven, the Hauge and maybe Breda undefended, but anywhere else I feel I need a SM in the city and a couple of knights within striking distance.

    I'm going to want a galley or two and trebuchets ready on the inland sea coast to redline and sink Vike galleys if they declare on me.

    I have 14 MDI now and keep neglecting to count them as offensive units. It's time to build vet SM in the 2 10spt rax cities and trebuchets in the nonrax cities. The 7spt rax cities will still build knights.

    580 AD Continued: Rotterdam to SM. Amsterdam...wow, it's at 12spt..I need to get workers over here stat to make it 15spt...queue SM for next build. Change most SM builds to Trebuchet...lots are due next turn. Eindhoven's at 10spt! Change it to SM. What the heck, change Utrecht to SM, too--it'll be 10spt very soon. Gift 20g to Inca, 40g to Sumer for attitude adjustments...they're distant, but I want the trades available.

    IT: Carth wants straight-up alliance with the French. WTF? No, and you don't even get a counteroffer.

    590 AD: Tilburg Temple -> Treb. 5 Treb builds finish and start anew except Harlingen goes to settler. Upgrade reg spear to SM.

    600 AD: 2 SMs and worker finish. Upgrade reg sword to MDI. Rush settler in Harlingen b/c it grows to 6 next turn. (D'oh! coulda waited until ready for size 7...oh well.) China knows Carthage. Byzantine has Chivalry. Nobody has more than 20g to pay for it.

    610 AD: Knight, Trebuchet, settler build. Breda riots..D'oh! Troublesome city, and I always miss it even though I check for happiness. 33% still whining about the whip. Hire a taxman. Upgrade reg war to MDI. Mursilis is annoyed, but I don't care anymore. (It might have something to do with my massing troops on his borders and sailing along his coast :mischief: )

    620 AD: Couple more unit builds. Upgrade reg war to MDI. One of recent galley makes suicide run east off the southern/eastern point. Southern galley exploring new world makes suicide right turn towards some sea tiles, but looks like nothing doing.

    IT: Iroquois and portugal sign peace treaty. Hrm, they must be in the center of the new world continent then. Tilburg culture expands; oh yeah a couple of turns ago Haarlen expanded.

    630 AD: Several unit builds complete. Hey, France got Rusicade from Carth. Wow, all galleys lived, but nothing found. Leave two at risk. The new world is up Astronomy, but I still have gunpowder and banking on Inca. Trade techs with Inca plus RoP and their 22g. Nobody I know has Chemistry. Sumer has Navigation but hasn't met anyone from my parts of the world. Hittites have invention; I think that's new, and they're one tech from Gunpowder; at least he has absolutely no gold and no gpt.

    War is coming soon. I've been thinking in 6 turns with the gpt deals run out I'd wheel-and-deal to break everyone and then declare, but I'm thinking we might start very soon. Change frontline cities to SM, rax cities to knight. Just realized that Carth has no iron after France took Leptis Magna. Neither have horses. Have frontline workers abandon tasks to retreat. Add settler to attack stack outside Kadesh.

    640 AD: Still weak compared to Hittites. We'll see. Side Track: I have contact with Portugal! He has 19g, no gpt; I'm up Invention, Banking and Astronomy. He has furs and silks but lacks horses and iron! Establish embassy for 67g: --D'OH! I have seen two of his cities already but thought they were Iroquois because of the color..very close--wow, this guy's empire has been trashed; no improvments except oracle and sistine chapel in Lisbon. He's down to 2 cities! He only knows the new world civs. Sign RoP w/Portugal and gift him Invention, Gunpowder, Banking and Astronomy so he's at tech parity with Inca and Iroquois doesn't get bled by them. He has no Saltpeter. Change Zwolle to build harbor for overseas trade since Navigation is already out. Yikes! Vikes have Chemistry. Hmm, too expensive for now. Sign RoP w/Vikes to hopefully keep them happy with me.

    Okay, back to pestering Mursalis. He's annoyed, my troops are out of his territory, but he has a galley in mine: "Remove your forces from our territory or declare WAR!" "The Hittites declared war on us!"



    Changed my mind: Buy Chemistry from Vikes for Education, Chivalry and 30gpt and 112g. Attack me now, Ragnar! A bit expensive, but give Education to Byzantines for 89g and alliance against Hittites. Hittites are now cut off from their own dye and all foreign trades. The downside is they may have cash to rush troops or buy an alliance against me. Gift Monotheism and Invention to Carthage so Hittites can't buy an alliance with techs, but Mursalis might even buy Mono from Carthage draining his money and helping fight France. (Carth is losing badly now.)

    Surprisingly, Hittites have a trade route with Vikes and Carth, but no active trades. Carthage Maybe, but Vikes? How? Ah, through Carthage and around the northwest coast through France waters. Funny. I can easily block it with a galley in a few turns.

    With trebuchets, MDI and Knights take out 4 chariots around Kadesh losing 1 knight. Lux to 20% (reverse WW?)

    I can trade Chem to Sumer, but I have no use for Economics or Music Theory. Navigation could be useful, but magnetism is due soon. I sell it to him for his World Map, 36gpt and 465g. Coulda waited for my harbor to finish so I could trade lux, but a blockade is possible and happiness isn't a big problem for me.

    Scary time: end turn.

    IT: D'oooooooooooHHH! I thought the lightly guarded trebuchets were out of reach, but no...7 trebuchets captured after 1 1/3 MDI dies to chariot. Sword kills SM and captures Holwerd and 41g. A worker I missed is captured. People decide to expand my palace? Are you F'in' kidding me? Yay, our leader's a nincompoop, let's add a 3rd floor! Vikes finish Leo's.

    650 AD: The good news is the idiot left the trebs right by my attack stack; 6 guarded by one chariot and one guarded by a pikeman. Kill 4 chariots, 2 pike, 1 MDI, lose a knight. Get the trebs back. Lux to 30%. Rush harbor in Zwolle...need a defender there soon as Hittites have a couple of cities and some offense from the west. Change trebuchet build back to SM.

    Take a look at my new world map courtesy of Sumer. Hey! England is out there. I thought I met everyone.

    I'm likely to lose Gouda and Mursalis will have his dyes back on the trade network...unless I get Carth at war with him, then I might even keep Gouda, but I doubt it. Cancel RoP, then make RoP, Alliance vs Hittites for 10gpt and 50g from me. He needs the money, and I want trade cut off. Hey! Carth is gracious. First time this game.

    Both Byzantines and Vikes have Saltpeter...one of them didn't before. And somehow Hittites can still trade with Vikes. Neither has Astronomy.

    IT: Carth gets to move first and makes defensive moves. Portugal and England make peace.
    Chariot picks off a hurt MDI, SM in Holwerd retreats an ancient cav, Gouda w/sword falls to Ancient cav, 44g stolen. :( Bowman kills another straggling MDI. SM in Holwerd redlined but defeats attacking bowman (then promotes). "Our Great Civilization has entered a Golden Age!" Holwerd SM retreats another AC. Chariot retreated. And something else...hard to keep up and type. two culture expansions, and people want to expand my palace...they like losing cities apparently...penthouse added to make my palace look like the phallus I feel like now.

    660 AD: Okay, I think 2 SM died in Holwerd because there's none left but an MDI defends the city. Rush SM in Holwerd, Breda and Enshede.

    I need to do a lot of MM to maximize GA production. Time to get some sleep and try this tomorrow. The war started off worse than I wanted, but we'll see what he throws at me next.

     
  16. tR1cKy

    tR1cKy taking over the world

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    Hi!
    I had a quick read on your log, just a peek to have a minimal impression. I intend to read it more carefully this evening and give you an impression on things. Btw, a question: if i interpret correctly the shots, you haven't started a sigle conquest campaign yet. You're still stuck with your original territory... why?
     
  17. Puppeteer

    Puppeteer Emperor

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    DFW, Texas USA
    Hi tR1cKy,

    I made this post mainly to gripe about a bad start, but partly inspired by you I decided to try to continue it. (Even though it was low food from turn 1 I thought if there were fresh water just out of sight it was a fantastic start because irrigating is faster than mining, but that was not the case. Being on an inland sea added insult to injury. The second inland sea was so unfunny it was funny.)

    I did in the past two turns finally incite a war with the intention of taking lands to the south and taking control of the Pyramids and maybe SoZ. My neighbors to the west and north are much weaker but I decided I'd better spend my resources weakening my strong neighbor to the south and then mopping up west and north afterwards followed by figuring out how to win from there.

    Admittedly I tend to keep building when I should be warring, but in this case I don't think I had much choice. It was a low food start, and up until the past 10-20 turns I've had barely enough troops to occupy each city for MP and to prevent the AI civs from being able to walk in unchallenged. I made lots of workers yet still not enough as I'm running behind on improvements and roadnet.

    To have built an army capable of any conquest at all would have stunted my growth, and I felt so far behind the Hitties (to the south) troopwise until now I don't think I could've come out ahead in a war. I could have taken a couple of Carthage cities a few turns before getting into it with the Hittites, but France took the main city I wanted right about the time I had the troops for it.

    By the way, for much of the middle ancient ages Hittites had tons of troops tromping through my territory for a war on Carthage; the Hittites definitely came out ahead on that one, but they helped me expand into ex-Carthage territory and get dyes. I think the war also stunted both their expansion efforts and left me the opportunity to finally build a port city on the real ocean.

    I'm actually pleased that I was able to expand to be nearly the size of the other civs given my low food start, and I'm pleased to have tech traded my way ahead after discovering two "false" seas and thus not having the advantage of knowing new world civs to trade broker with until the past 20-25 turns.

    I'm not sure if I made my intentions clear for the conquest, but I am kinda flying by the seat of my pants. Kadesh is the hittite city surrounded by my territory, and there have been 9-10 chariots patrolling its borders. I had two stacks of units ready to take out the chariots and take Kadesh, but I was a bit overwhelmed early and am having to fall back, retook Holwerd and fight off the troops he's sending my way. I'm hoping he'll be gassed in a couple more turns and then I can take Kadesh and then take cities SE towards his capitol where the pyramids are. I lost a western city, but I think I can avoid losing any more. I have 15 trebs and am building knights quickly so I think we're about to see my territory get bigger. I have lots of MDI but many of them are garrisoning frontline cities, so they're not all available for offense at the moment. I had 2 knights to the NW and two knights near my capitol in case of someone else declaring on me and sending in troops, but I think last turn I pretty much ungarissoned all my northern cities to bring all troops towards the Hittites and hope France doesn't declare on me while I'm naked.

    I'm not an expert player, so others probably could've done better with this start. I'm happy to hear comments, suggestions and shoulda/woulda/coulda.
     
  18. tR1cKy

    tR1cKy taking over the world

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Messages:
    1,958
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Perusia, Roman Empire
    Any progress? Did you continue the game?
     
  19. garric

    garric Emperor

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2003
    Messages:
    1,395
    Location:
    Yay Area
    Pretty interesting read!
     
  20. Dachs

    Dachs Hero of the Soviet Union

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    32,588
    Location:
    Moscow
    Cool, I really like these "bad start" threads, especially since tR1cKy's excellent Deity log. In what city are the all-important Hittite Pyramids?
     

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