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Great Wall protection

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by lymond, Dec 6, 2009.

  1. Khan Quest

    Khan Quest Prince

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    It's not only about needing less troops to defend against barbs, its where you can put them. You can leave your backyard cities defenseless or with a warrior garrison, and concentrate your bulk of and best units near rival borders.
     
  2. Ghpstage

    Ghpstage Deity

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    Great Wall is overrated, unless the open area is very large you can spawnbust with nothing but Warriors, who can then serve as garrisons and HR :) troops.
     
  3. Zexx

    Zexx Chieftain

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    I'm with Ghpstage. The Great Wall is tremendously overrated. I don't think I've ever gotten it past Emperor. Even with Stone in my capital's BFC, I'm still too focused on getting those early cities and workers out.

    The Great Wall is for production cheats like the computers. The only way I would consider going for it is with Stone in the BFC, and having an Ind. leader.

    I would MUCH rather have the Barbarians attack me, and dole out free experience. Fogbust well, and they'll only bother you where you want them to anyway. Have a decent set of roads set up, and even if they spawn where you don't want them, you can almost always get/whip soldiers with time to spare.

    On the other hand of the coin, the GW is great for throwing a wrench in a nearby computer. I've stolen cities from neighbors because they couldn't deal with all the Barb Archers swarming onto them, and captured a border city.

    But often, in my opinion anyway, the necessary slowdown of your capital from BUILDING the GW isn't worth the reward of no barb harassment.
     
  4. Udey1

    Udey1 Prince

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    sometimes I would have to disagree. It is situational. My last (current) deity game started me on a huge landmass with all distant neighbors and an impossible situation for a fogbust. I WISH I had great wall and tried hard for it to stop those barbs.
     
  5. Zexx

    Zexx Chieftain

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    Do you honestly think you could beat Deity AI to a Masonry (A high priority tech for many of the leaders) and then to the Wall?
     
  6. Udey1

    Udey1 Prince

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    Actually I was short by 2 turns, so with stone I would have snagged it easily (or with an industrious civ which I was not playing) SO yes- absolutely I could have...... honestly.
     
  7. Zexx

    Zexx Chieftain

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    Well power to you! \
    I would still worry/ fret all game about the land I could have gotten if I hadn't spent the time on the Wall, in such a scenerio.

    Almost as if there was no "single truth" about the game.
     
  8. Gorey

    Gorey Prince

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    hah.. this tripped me up as well.

    I'd be all like "Main i want to build the GW.. but i need to wait for those other two cities borders to pop so they are connected."

    LOL

    ofcourse.. i would wait too long and lose the race to build it.
     
  9. Killroyan

    Killroyan Deity

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    Hmmm, after my first five game at emperor that were ruined by barbs (blergh vedic event and barb galleys) I can assure you that I find the great wall a lot more important right now. At one point I get a city up and in the next 3 turns 2 warriors and 2 archers pop up. Bad luck with barbs sucks. :)
     
  10. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Gspy can be used to just infiltrate (steal techs or spread culture rape a city...probably stronger than an artist for it X_X) or later on set up SY in good commerce cities if you want to go the stealing route.

    People really underestimate EP in this game as a catchup mechanic later on. Gift or otherwise put culture of yours into a city, try to get the religious bonus, and if you're in SP move your palace. Bam...painfully cheap techs available.

    Note: value of anti-barb effect varies wildly with map size and speed. Playing huge/marathon w/ default civ count will make it a very, very valuable wonder actually. Probably the best one in the game. Even on high levels there will be a lot of land and the barbs will press the AIs.
     
  11. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    All of this would be true if the no barb arrasement was the only bonus the GW gave. Besides the GSpy points ( I wonder why most people continue to play their games like if they were in warlords ... espionage is a extremely powerful tool , and not only to steal techs or revolt cities ), there is also the extremely shunned bonus to GG generation with fights inside borders ( that most people shun because the settings in their games are pointed to make them the offenders 95% of the times ). All summed , this all makes the GW a very worthwhile wonder to build. The issue is that there is always the possibility that there is something else that fits better the map than making the GW by yourself :D
     
  12. mfie

    mfie Warlord

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    I once did a OCC and just razed alot of cities and 2 barb cities were founded with 3 inf in it. But the inf doesn't leave the city to attack you :confused:.
     
  13. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Since posting this thread, I've been playing an emperor game currently in which i settled on stone and built the Great Wall easily. Also, I have raging barbs turned on which I like to do occasionally. It's hilarious to watch how much damage these barbs do to the AI. It's almost unfair and puts me at a great advantage as I can just expand at leisure and tech faster. I see masses of barbs circling my empire and then heading off to whomever. One civ has already been destroyed by barbs and others have had cities razed before stabilizing somewhat.

    I can see the Great Wall as being a serious advantage if you can get it built, but probably depends on strategy. Sometimes I actually like dealing with the barbs myself. Regardless of them not attacking your city, you can still send units out for fun barb hunting to get experience.

    As for the Great Spy, I think settling him is the best option that early. Unless you really have you overall plan laid out as to whom you will ally with and who you will shun, it's like throwing all your eggs in one basket. The additional espionage point from settling go a long way in keep an equitable or advantageous lead over the AI. I like how you can see what they are teching currently.
     
  14. Udey1

    Udey1 Prince

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    Late but I will post it.

    Churchill Deity. GW will complete and beat all the AI. also a god shot at oracle/TOA as well (i nabbed both and the AP for a space win in the end)

    Anyway it surely is possible to beat deity AI to the GW, but rare since they cheat SOOO bad on this level.
     

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  15. kochman

    kochman Deity

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    Yes, the price is high though... Great Spy points and loss of growth potential. Once I hit emperor I stopped going with the Great Wall...
     

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