Greek colonies in the 500BC

[Yoda Power]

Could anyone tell greek colonies blonged to witch cities? All the maps I cant find just show them as "Greek" colonies, but not specified. I only need the ones in the eastern medditerrainean, as its for a scenario

Thanks in advance

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

Which Greek colonies? Ones in Cyprus? Asia Minor? Crimea? Thrace? North Africa? There's lots.

 

[Kryten]

As Mongoloid Cow said, this is not an easy one to answer.

Basically, modern historians lump Greek colonisation into two different groups:-
* The later colonisation by individual cities, starting from about 800 BC, which was mostly done in the central & western Med (such as southern Italy, Sicily, southern Gaul, and the coast of eastern Spain).
* And the earlier 'tribal' colonisation on the western coast of Anataolia by the Aeolian, Ionian and Dorian Greeks, about 1200 to 900 BC, during the early Greek 'Dark Ages' following the collapse of the Mycenaean civilization.
In other words, the western coast of modern Turkey was colonised by various Greek tribes before the famous city-states of mainland Greece came into existance. So although it is possible to say that Syracuse in Sicily was founded in 734 BC by colonists from Corinth, or that Tarentum in southern Italy was founded in 708 BC by colonists from Sparta, the best that you can do with the Asia Minor colonies is to say that Mytilene & Cyme were founded by the Aeolian Greeks (from Thessaly), Chios & Samos were founded by Ionian Greeks (from Boeotia), and that Miletus & the cities of Rhodes were founded by the Dorian Greeks (from the Peloponnese).

Here is a good site that tries to explain all this :-
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Labyrinth/2398/bginfo/history/colonies.html

And here is a site that deals with each of the three main Asia Minor regions (Aeolis, Ionia and Doris) :-
http://www.mavicanet.ru/directory/eng/23874.html

 

[LouLong]

Since I guess it is for your scenario, I think I know which cities you are interested in. Now it is for the period before the Greek-Persian wars, right ?

One pb you might have is that colonies back then had already started to have very loose ties with their "metropolis", mostly sort of religious-social ones and not political ones. To make them as one civ would not represent reality, especially since Greek colonies would often ask for Greek colonists from other cities/metropolis to strengthen themselves.

Three other points :
- colonies were often linked to a certain type of Greek people (Eolians, Ionians, Dorians,...) rather than to a specific city
- some local or Iranian dynasties became hellenized fairly quickly (it would increase during the hellenistic period) such as the Hecatomnids (Mausolos) of Halicarnass. Greek, non Greek ? Especially when they would come sometimes to rule over Greek cities.
- some colonies became metropolis of other colonies as well (ex : Byzantium)

The easiest I think would be for you to put down a list of the "colonies" you are interested in, as well as a list of "metropolis"/civs so I (or others) can try to link them for you.

Edit : as usual, I had other windows opened at the same time and Kryten answered much as me before I actually pushed the reply button. Well, at least it is a garanty when different people have the same opinion lol

 

[Stefan Haertel]

Important: At 500 BC, half of the "Greek" world (that is, all Greek colonies in Asia, Cyprus, Africa, and much of the Aegean) was under Persian control.

 

[Yoda Power]

Ok I'll specify, sorry I didn't do that from the biginning.

I need to know which country/state ruled these cities/areas: Trebizon, Sinope, Western coast of the Black Sea and the Areas of Southern Anatolia -Caria though.

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

Sinope was a Milesian colony until 546BC. Then it became part of Persia in the Satrapy of Cappadocia.

Caria was part of Persia from 546BC onwards. Before that though I couldn't tell you (though I'd guess it was part of Lydia)

Trapezus (Trabzon) seems to have been independent or under Scythian rule, but I'm not too sure on that.

 

[Plexus]

In 7th century BC, the Miletans who came to the shores of Black Sea for trade purposes colonised some areas from Sinop eastwards. They founded one of these colonies in Trabzon, which they had invaded. Because of its strategic importance, Trabzon was made the centre of the colonies in the region. In his memoirs called “Anabasis”, Ksenophon, who wanted to transport his returning army via Trabzon after the wars with the Persians in 400 BC, reports the presence of some combatant and civilised tribes in the region such as Tibaren, Khalybi, Drill, Tzanni, Makron and Kolkh. In their books, some European historians claim these tribes to be of Turanian origin.

After the collapse of the Alexander the Great’s large but short-lived empire, Trabzon was left to the Pontus Kingdom which was founded by a Persian nobleman in the North Anatolia (280-66 BC). With the occupation of this kingdom by the Romans, the Roman period started in Trabzon. From then on, Trabzon became an important base for the Roman military campaigns against the Persians.

BTW: Happy B-day, MC.

 

[LouLong]

Western Black Sea from South to North :

Apollonia
Odessos
Callatis
Tomoi
Istros
Tyras
Olbia (northernest (spelling ?) city

all are Ionian colonies( Phocee or Milet) except Callatis which is IIRC of Megarian origin (such as Byzantium)

Carie was part of the satrapy of Ionia ( not excatly the same as Greek Ionia) = tenth satrapy (including Milet)
The north of Asia minor was part of the ninth Satrapy called Lydia.
These satrapies had been established in 518 (so OK for your scenario) and linked to the main Empire by a royal route ending in Sardis.

The Greek cities were semi-autonomous (they kept their internal political regime) but had to pay taxes to the satrap. Persians were usually kind of "cool" when it came to the traditional administration as long as money kept flowing. Now of course this was heavily dependant upon the mere will of a new king of king.
I know it is not easy to represent in Civ3 especially with no events.

 

[Xen]

Originally posted by Plexus
Ksenophon

Its Xenophon, you dont have to take after G_A in the chatroom ya know

 

[Yoda Power]

Thanks everybody

 

[LouLong]

About Southern Turkey.

From Lycia to Cilicia, there were no real cities but a mix o different populations (original people, + invaders, + invaders, + invaders,...). A large part of them were made of Luwittes, an Indo-European tribe very close to the Hittites (hint, hint ?). They had been kind of pushed there by the different invasions and the area being not so rich (+ no city tradition), they would became fierce pirates as well as muscle for hire. It is only during the hellenistic period that some became actual cities (often thanks to the settling of a military colony first). Very few "Greek" cities (Phaselis, Aspendos, Celenderis from West to East (you can look at my Magna Grecia map with cities for reference) but these became important part of the Athenian Great Game after 450.

 

[Yoda Power]

Ok what about the cities on the eastern and northern coast of the Black Sea(Theodosia, Panticapaeum, Phanagoria, Phasis etc.)?

edit: BTW did Thrace have cities by this time(ca. 500/400BC)?

 

[Cimbri]

Behold the Magic


I bet you know to differ between Phoenician and Greek colonies.