Greek general election 2012

Which party would you vote for in the future general election?

  • New Democracy

    Votes: 6 13.6%
  • Pasok

    Votes: 4 9.1%
  • KKE

    Votes: 6 13.6%
  • Syriza

    Votes: 9 20.5%
  • Laos

    Votes: 5 11.4%
  • Democratic alliance

    Votes: 2 4.5%
  • Independent Greeks

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Democratic left

    Votes: 1 2.3%
  • Social agreement

    Votes: 1 2.3%
  • Golden Dawn

    Votes: 10 22.7%

  • Total voters
    44
  • Poll closed .
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Kyriakos

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Since it seems that elections will happen in the following month, i thought of starting this thread.

The main parties are the following:

New Democracy. Center-right party. Second in the current parliament, looks set to be first with some difference in the new election. In agreement with the Troika, but at least in theory set to renegotiate the terms.

Pa.so.k. Center/socialist. Ruling party in the last election, looks likely to utterly collapse in the new one. Generally ressurected (if only that means that it does not utterly decompose) with Benizelos as its new leader, remains in the agreement with the troika.

K.K.E. Communist. Polls show it getting more than 10% of the vote, increasing its power by up to 25%. Calls for zero debt by declining to pay. Claims it will not be in any coalition.

Sy.riz.a. Radical leftist. Had difficulty getting in the current Parliament, but now it may even overtake KKE as the largest party of the left. Wishes to govern with coalition of the three leftist parties. Calls for zero debt as well by canceling the debt.

La.o.s. Right-wing party. Had a good run in the last election, but now seems to be losing heavily. Mainly because its leader first agreed with the Troika, then later rennounced the plan. Now calls for a new plan.

Democratic alliance. Center-right party. Headed by former foreign secretery Dora Bacoyanni. Calls for keeping the deal with the troika. Looks very difficult for it to get the 3% it needs to be in the new Boule.

Independent Greeks. Headed by an mp who got thrown out of the NEw Democracy party, after refusing to sign the new Troika deal. Calls for annulment of the debt by Greece. Polls quite high, at 9%.

Democratic Left Leftist/moderate. Another new party by an old mp who became autonomous, this time from Syriza. Calls for a mixed new deal with Troika, and is open to be in a coalition, even with Pasok or New Democracy.



Golden Dawn Far right party (analogous with Le Pen's). Never in Parliament before, looks likely to be in this one, polling at around 4%.

There are in total 36 parties, but the other ones won't really stand a chance to be in the Parliament.

So, who would you vote for?

Udecided currently are at around 18%, and another 8% claims they will vote no party at all.

Also keep in mind that the Greek political system uses a kind of proportionality in elections, which however grants the main parties more seats than if the system was purely proportional. It means the first party may still have over 150 seats, while getting a lot less of the vote.
 
Okay, repeating my question from the French election thread: is there any barrier for parties to enter the parliament? And how are the additional seats you mentioned awarded?
 
The two big parties seem to have failed Greece completely, so I would have voted for one of the smaller moderate parties. Democratic Left or Democratic Alliance.

Okay, repeating my question from the French election thread: is there any barrier for parties to enter the parliament?

He mentioned it:

Kyriakos said:
Democratic alliance. Center-right party. Headed by former foreign secretery Dora Bacoyanni. Calls for keeping the deal with the troika. Looks very difficult for it to get the 3% it needs to be in the new Boule.
 
Which party is likely to start doing something to get Greece out of the mess it has created for itself? I mean, crack down brutally on corruption and welfare abuse, wipe the floor with violent anarchists, balance the budget even if it means drastic cuts in public spending, etc.?

I'd vote for it and then emigrate to some other EU country :lol:
 
Interesting that the sole vote up to now was for Laos (it was not me btw...).

I wish i could leave. Maybe i will, next year, if things continue in this pattern.

As for the specific proportional/non proportional system, i do not know, but it does not look likely that any two parties will be able to get above 30% of the vote, so it would most likely be an ecumenical government.
 
Which party is likely to start doing something to get Greece out of the mess it has created for itself? I mean, crack down brutally on corruption and welfare abuse, wipe the floor with violent anarchists, balance the budget even if it means drastic cuts in public spending, etc.?

I'd vote for it and then emigrate to some other EU country :lol:

It is absolutely impossible to balance the greek budget through cuts. Greece's foreign debt at the current interest rates (or at almost any interest rate!) were and remain unplayable. It's a mathematical impossibility for a country with a recession caused by those very cuts to repay a debt that it greater that all the wealth it can already produce yearly and accumulating interest every year! To repay the debt would the greek state to somehow seize at least the equivalent to 10% of Greece's GDP each year for many decades to come for the sole purpose of sending send it out of the country - which would have the effect of further depressing Greece's own internal economy and further undermine the wealth base from which the state would have to take those payments. The divergence between Greece's ability to pay and the size of its debt will only keep growing, until it does a full default.

The big question is: are the greek voters aware that denouncing the debt means that their own banks will go bankrupt? That to keep the greek financial system going they must cut most of the value of the deposits still held there by the greeks themselves? Are they willing to bite that bullet? I don't think so. Thus they'll keep kicking the can down the road for as long as possible. The parties that make it to government will continue to seek new agreements with the "troika", and the greeks themselves will continue to and moan but most will continue to vote for those parties. Until the stupidity of the thing (to keep doing the same failed thing over and over again) becomes so plain that no one else in the world will go play with that fantasy. Which should be... sometime during the next few months!

Greek Nazis?:confused: weird.

They must want more raping from Germany, miss it from the 40s.

Really , this is the kind of thing that makes me despair of democracy as a political system. The willful blindness and sheer stupidity of voters seems to know no bounds.
 
I don't think Greece has the ability to repay it's full 100% of liabilities anytime in the future. They have already had a large part of their debt effectively written off twice by generous creditors in the past few years, despite that, the situation remains hopeless. I think talks of renegotiating the plan is the completely wrong path to thread, they need to default! Get it over with! It's like when your hungover, you can end the agony after a few uncomfortably moments by sticking two fingers down your throat and throwing up. or you can prolong your pain by feeling bad all day - greece needs two fingers down the neck:p
 
Do any of the parties call for leaving the single european currency, I think the only way to get greece out of its current mess is leaving the euro but not the EU.
 
Really , this is the kind of thing that makes me despair of democracy as a political system. The willful blindness and sheer stupidity of voters seems to know no bounds.
Seems like you and Winner can find some common ground after all. :mischief:
 
I would vote for Виножито Vinožito if they are putting up any candidates this time. But they will not get anybody elected.
 
Really , this is the kind of thing that makes me despair of democracy as a political system. The willful blindness and sheer stupidity of voters seems to know no bounds.
I think I can agree on that. We'd probably disagree on the examples, though.
 
It is absolutely impossible to balance the greek budget through cuts. Greece's foreign debt at the current interest rates (or at almost any interest rate!) were and remain unplayable. It's a mathematical impossibility for a country with a recession caused by those very cuts to repay a debt that it greater that all the wealth it can already produce yearly and accumulating interest every year! To repay the debt would the greek state to somehow seize at least the equivalent to 10% of Greece's GDP each year for many decades to come for the sole purpose of sending send it out of the country - which would have the effect of further depressing Greece's own internal economy and further undermine the wealth base from which the state would have to take those payments. The divergence between Greece's ability to pay and the size of its debt will only keep growing, until it does a full default.

You're assuming I am adhering to the illusion Greece will ever repay its debts.

That's not it. I don't care any more - let them default on 100% of their debt, Europe can handle that now. What I want is for Greece to stop generating more debt. That is entirely doable - cut on expenses. Cut and cut until the state's budget balance is POSITIVE.

Is that so incomprehensible?

They must want more raping from Germany, miss it from the 40s.

The difference is, the rest of Europe now kinda supports Germany in "raping" Greece. For a pretty understandable reason. The "rape" as you describe it consists of forcing the Greeks to learn to live within their means.

Radical idea, I know.

Really, this is the kind of thing that makes me despair of democracy as a political system. The willful blindness and sheer stupidity of voters seems to know no bounds.

Yep. Especially if politicians pander to the ignorance of the masses of people who believe that a country can borrow and borrow and borrow with no consequences for their lives.
 
That's not it. I don't care any more - let them default on 100% of their debt, Europe can handle that now. What I want is for Greece to stop generating more debt. That is entirely doable - cut on expenses. Cut and cut until the state's budget balance is POSITIVE.
Unfortunately, the Eurozone and others are so far desperately trying to avoid a true default although that would make balancing Greece's budget a lot more easier. I don't think though that it is possible for Greece to run a surplus under these economic circumstances (economy to contract by 5 % this year etc.), with or without default.
 
Unfortunately, the Eurozone and others are so far desperately trying to avoid a true default although that would make balancing Greece's budget a lot more easier. I don't think though that it is possible for Greece to run a surplus under these economic circumstances (economy to contract by 5 % this year etc.), with or without default.

It is possible - but the Greeks wouldn't like it, because their country would be quickly reduced to a living standard that's more in line with the state of its economy. In other words, it would look more like a Middle Eastern country than a European country.
 
Unfortunately, the Eurozone and others are so far desperately trying to avoid a true default although that would make balancing Greece's budget a lot more easier. I don't think though that it is possible for Greece to run a surplus under these economic circumstances (economy to contract by 5 % this year etc.), with or without default.
Yes. I think a primary surplus is already an ambitious goal. While I somewhat agree with Winner that the current Greek standard of living was only achieved by debt, crashing their economy so that it aligns with that in a couple of years really doesn't seem to be a wise course of action. But the same thing holds true for trying to keep it afloat with debt-fueled consumption. I'm sympathetic to some kind of Greek "Marshal plan", but I haven't any decent idea where future Greek creation of value should actually come from.
 
Perhaps EU could subsidise certain investments in Greece, in order to create a decent industry down there.
 
I don't think Greece has the ability to repay it's full 100% of liabilities anytime in the future. They have already had a large part of their debt effectively written off twice by generous creditors in the past few years, despite that, the situation remains hopeless. I think talks of renegotiating the plan is the completely wrong path to thread, they need to default! Get it over with! It's like when your hungover, you can end the agony after a few uncomfortably moments by sticking two fingers down your throat and throwing up. or you can prolong your pain by feeling bad all day - greece needs two fingers down the neck:p


There's nothing generous about the creditors. They simply realize that they are not going to get all their money back. So they did what to them is the next best thing, and targeted getting as much back as possible.

But still that is too much. No one was acting responsibly, not the banks, not the voters, and not the government. I don't see a solution for Greece. That changes necessary are just too severe.
 
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