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Greek general election 2012

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Kyriakos, Apr 23, 2012.

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Which party would you vote for in the future general election?

Poll closed Aug 1, 2012.
  1. New Democracy

    6 vote(s)
    13.6%
  2. Pasok

    4 vote(s)
    9.1%
  3. KKE

    6 vote(s)
    13.6%
  4. Syriza

    9 vote(s)
    20.5%
  5. Laos

    5 vote(s)
    11.4%
  6. Democratic alliance

    2 vote(s)
    4.5%
  7. Independent Greeks

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. Democratic left

    1 vote(s)
    2.3%
  9. Social agreement

    1 vote(s)
    2.3%
  10. Golden Dawn

    10 vote(s)
    22.7%
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  1. Cato the Elder

    Cato the Elder King

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    Is there any workable coalition with the current election results? I don't see anything that could work out; there isn't enough for a left-wing coalition, and ND + PASOK don't have enough amongst one another either. Even with Independent Greeks added to the mix, it'd still be hard because of their opposition to the troika deals.
     
  2. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    The so called "bail-out" is moribund anyway. It is yesterday's news. Whatever happens the only certain thing is that it will be cancelled.

    By now i guess with all the reductions in wages, Greece might as well default on its own, on ALL debt, and then have a surplus. Don't see any other way out, and it should have done it the Iceland way from the start.
     
  3. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    Well in theory there could be a ND+Pasok+Democratic left coalition, which is in theory pro-bail-out, although with changes.

    Not sure what will happen either way, but the people have characteristically voted against the bail-out plan.
     
  4. kronic

    kronic Deity

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    Greece is not there yet (primary surplus) but it's certainly what I would do if I were in charge of Greece. Primary surplus, reintroduction of the Drachma, default.
     
  5. anandus

    anandus Errorist

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    Which makes me wonder: Which of these parties are in favour of leaving the euro?
     
  6. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    AFAIK only the communist one.
     
  7. Silurian

    Silurian Deity

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    If the bailout is cancelled and not renegotiated how will Greece stay in the Euro
     
  8. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    I do not care by now if Greece stays in the euro or not (provided obviously that it still stays in the EU), but to my knowledge there is no way to actually kick a country out of the eurozone.

    What amazes me though is the extent in which some people in the rest of the EU can be cruel towards this country. I think you have not realized what is going on. I doubt Germany would still exist if it was forced to cut wages and raise taxes in similar fashion; i am sure the far-right there would get 40% again in such an event...
     
  9. classical_hero

    classical_hero In whom I trust

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    Well Germany did not make the same mistakes as Greece and as a result they are flying through the crisis, unlike other countries in Europe. Germany is the only ray of hope in the continent.
     
  10. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    Eh, the NSDAP gained popularity more because it offered the most coherent opposition to the left- and above all the Communist Party- rather than because it had much of a draw in-and-of-itself. Even Golden Dawn, I'd wager, owes as much of its support to middle class conservatives who feel threatened by the KKE and SYRIZA as it does to poor racists. (At any rate, the drop in support for LAOS occurring at the same time as a rise in AK support doesn't seem coincidental.)
     
  11. AL_DA_GREAT

    AL_DA_GREAT amour absinthe révolution

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    Both Golden dawn and the zapatistas fight for the same thing, indigenous rights and anti capitalism. If someone fought for the same things as the zapatistas in the west they would be labeled "right wing extremists".

    Golden dawn wants a reformed version of spartan society. They do not want slaves, they don't even want to have foreigners in their country.
     
  12. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    The EZLN isn't a racialist movement by any stretch of the imagination, and Golden Dawn are hardly "anti-capitalist" in any meaningful sense. You do talk some right pish.
     
  13. AL_DA_GREAT

    AL_DA_GREAT amour absinthe révolution

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    Still cultural nationalists, kind of like front national or British national party.

    Nationalists are the true anti capitalists/anti communists. Communism and capitalism go hand in hand.
     
  14. luiz

    luiz Trendy Revolutionary

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    Given your taste for the Zapatistas/Maoists and BNP/Golden Dawn types, I'd say communism and fascism go hand in hand.
     
  15. kramerfan86

    kramerfan86 Deity

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    Yea keep believing Nazis, Im sure it can only turn out well and that they only like the "good parts" of Hitler's ideas.
     
  16. Cato the Elder

    Cato the Elder King

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    In the case of Belgium, the media has been quite successful at propagating this view that all Greeks work 30 hours a week, retire at 55, never pay their taxes, but still expect a gigantic welfare state. For some reason or another some people actually believe it, and they think that the Greeks are now getting what they had coming.

    I find it a quite disturbing trend, personally.
     
  17. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    Not really. Their limited nationalism is Mexican, not indigenous, because they represent a fairly diverse group of peoples who are only lumped together as "Maya" by outsiders. Most of the groups aren't even indigenous to the region, but moved in over the course of the 20th century as they retreated from the reach of landowners. There's certainly an indigenous dimension to it, certainly, but it's not to a major extent informed by political inidigenismo, which is something far more strongly associated with mestizo nationalists looking to ground themselves in some some of historical continuity.

    To the extent that Zapatismo is an indigenous movement, it's a rather sober request to be left alone, free of the romantic abstractions which you imagine, and to the extent that they're anything more than localism, they're more heavily influenced by Mexican nationalism, Catholic universalism, and socialist cosmopolitanism (including the latter two fused in the form of libertarian theology) than any specifically ethnic concerns. To the extent than an ethnic dimension actually exists, it's a reaction to the racism of the landowners and their vigilantes, analogous to black power rather than black nationalism.

    Put simply, the narrative you've constructed around the EZLN is a projection of your own ethnic nationalism rather than an accurate description of events, grand mythologies for post-modern fascists. It has little to do with anyone actually in Chiapas.

    Nah, Zapatistas aren't Maoists. There was a little influenced from the FLN, in the early days, but they were largely standard Marxist-Leninist in terms of theory and program, just with the Focoism typical of the region, most of the Maoists being instead concentrated in the rival Linea Proletaria. Even that degraded after the stalling of the initial uprising- seriously, Foco has never worked, I don't why these people keep trying- and it's taken a shift into something all of it's own, as much a militant gut-localism as as any grand Leninist theory. You could perhaps describe them as "post-Maoist" in some respects, and that would certainly seem to describe Marcos himself, but "Maoist" basically doesn't work.

    /pedantry
     
  18. Silurian

    Silurian Deity

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    Since New Democracy have been unable to form a government does this mean that there will be another election in June.
     
  19. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    Do we already know this? If so, they haven't tried very hard.

    I still can't wrap my head around Syriza's position. They want to stay in the Eurozone, but also reject any organized form to repay the debt or default?
     
  20. Silurian

    Silurian Deity

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    It was on BBC R4 but is not on their website

    From Forbes

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/afontev...pras-now-trying-to-form-government-in-greece/

    Syriza will have 3 days from 11am tomorrow
     
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