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gueirila warfare/terroism

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by hossam, Jun 6, 2007.

  1. hossam

    hossam Deity

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    i always thought it would be cool to support a terror cell or a gueirella army to cause problems to other nation without officialy entering the war
     
  2. hossam

    hossam Deity

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    what are your thoughts on this???
     
  3. Thedrin

    Thedrin Deity

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    The most interesting suggestion made in the thread on the expanded espionage features suggested that setting a high espionage rate would effectively allow you to wage terrorism against your enemies.
     
  4. hossam

    hossam Deity

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    i suppose your right but what about things like gueirella warefare they should give infantry the ability to place mines or ieds or something and that way you can avoid direct contact or make transports toquickly move units for hit and runs.
     
  5. Thedrin

    Thedrin Deity

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    I suspect such details would require a combat system that deals in far more minutiae than CivIV's does.
     
  6. hossam

    hossam Deity

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    Im Pretty Syre Other Games Have The Ability To Do So And Can You Use Espionage To Be Part Of A Religion Or Force Another Nation To Do Some Thing Because Thats What Terrorism Is All About
     
  7. hossam

    hossam Deity

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    Sorry For The Crappy English I Speak It Much Better Than I Type It
     
  8. Olleus

    Olleus Deity

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    Why Do You Capitalise Every Word?

    I agree, terrorism would be good, but I'll just have to wait and see wether having a high espionage spending represents it well enough.
     
  9. Barton

    Barton Chieftain

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    Hello, this more tasteless than adding a jewish civilization and Hitler in the same expanision pact. Hmmm... terrorism, I think you should all either burn in hell, or if you don't believe in it just get burnt alive for even thinking of such tastless and inconciderate joke of a thread as this. I mean really, in only the dirst world we have lost thousands of people in terror attacks in the last few years. In the rest of the world, espessialy africa and the middle-east thousands of people are killed yearly by it. You inconciderate . .. .. .. .. ..
     
  10. marioflag

    marioflag History Addict

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    Following your statement also war, razing a city,raiding cottages, slavery should be banned from civ4.If you are so touchy toward an evil like terrorism why aren't you also touchy toward the features i listed before?Shouldn't you already playing another game considering that you should feel deeply offended about these features?
     
  11. Joe Harker

    Joe Harker 1st in the Premiership!

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    War kills thousands of people a year, yet they are in Civ 4, also poisoning your oppenents water is an old form of terrorism so it is in BTS!
     
  12. cuchulain

    cuchulain Warlord

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    I don't know about terrorism, but guerilla warfare should defintley be in. It used to be in CIVII and I think CivIII, but they haven't said they were bringing it back in BTS. Kind of weird. I think they should tone down the woodsman and guerilla promos to 10% and give a stealth bonus instead (at least for certain units.)
     
  13. Barton

    Barton Chieftain

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    Guerilla wardare yes, but attacking citizens of a civ without being directly at war is a bit much. You might as well put pol pot in the game if you want it to be entirely historically acurate
     
  14. Joe Harker

    Joe Harker 1st in the Premiership!

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    Like i said in my previous post, you can poison your oppentents water so there is an element of terrorism!
     
  15. Chengora

    Chengora Chieftain

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    Essentially, you'll have that capability with the introduction of privateers. I, for one, am going to create partisans/insurgents as a mod if they don't include them (once I figure out how to mod :) ). But what I like the most about this idea is the concept of intermediary warfare, which characterizes many aspects of conflict (and some entire wars).

    I think some of the best ramifications of this would come in multiplayer (partly because it's going to take extensive tweaking for the AI). Can you imagine being attacked by partisans, but not being sure who to blame? It's that uncertainty that 1. happens all the time in the real world and 2. it adds an interesting new dynamic to warfare and competition. I don't think it's possible to model actual tactics, like IEDs, etc., but simply having the basic unit with the ability to attack without declaring war presents whole new gameplay options.
     
  16. Madoo

    Madoo Chieftain

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    Nice idea but i have a different idea. Insurgency and guerilla warfare would be a very interesting aspect of the game and i think they should be almost like barbarians in that they attack randomly mercilessly but not for no reason. I know that what I have said inst very helpful so let me elaborate.

    OK so here go's : India invades and attacks hmmmm........ Japan. They win the war quickly bombing from the air and quickly capturing local objectives such as bored city's severely crippling the Japanese economy and causing unrest and possibly revolution in Japan making the independent city's we have heard about so far. Then guerrillas who are not under Japanese control(and can be attacked by Japanese) start to hit and run the Indian city's that were captured from India and it doesn't stop until the groups demands are met e.g. 10,000 gold or the return of one or two or all city's or other things such as resources and or gold to Japan over time.

    Not really a full through thing but it could be worked on slightly.

    PS: for the whiner that said that people who mentioned terrorism are tasteless and all that rubbish War is a form of terrorism and almost every major state can be considered a terrorist state including Russia and the former Soviet Union,U.K,U.S.A, Israel, Saddam's Iraq, Iddi Amins Uganda, Pol Pots Cambodia, present day Myanmar (although the terrorism is committed against there own people),India(only in some ways otherwise India is Gold), China, Taiwan for there secessionist leanings etc, etc the list go's on.
     
  17. El Koeno

    El Koeno Emperor

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    Sure, Civ 2 had a partisans, but they were just a nuisance, not really a threat of any kind to an army. I think for the partisan to be useful it should have a very high retreat chance, and perhaps some new abilities, such the ability to hide from the enemy.

    That leaves the question when they should spawn. I'd say around cities in resistance, making resisting cities harder to deal with, or through the espionage slider (think of the CIA or KGB funding all sorts of groups).
     
  18. Olleus

    Olleus Deity

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    I too would want the partisans back. Maybe give them guerrila 1 and woodsman 1. If then they also get some experience (from civics+pentagon, but not barracks/instructors, for obvious reasons), then they would become very annoying. Maybe have the number of Partisans spawned be relative to the size of the invading army?
     
  19. Chengora

    Chengora Chieftain

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    I actually don't think partisans should be able to go toe-to-toe with regular units. I consider them to be making attacks of opportunity: damaging resources and infrastructure, tackling remote units, etc. To be more realistic (which of course is always under contention when discussing Civ improvements), you need some combination of spies (with their new functions to affect populations) and insurgents. If partisans were simply military units, they'd be fun, but wouldn't expand gameplay that much. As military AND political units, there are many more possibilities. Now, a combination of just using spies and, separately, partisans is perfectly fine by me. But just wanted to throw out my reasons. Also, I think the civ should have direct control, at least for a certain period of time. What would be genuinely interesting is what happens when you disband partisans, as I've written elsewhere. A state has effectively cut off support for them, but if they don't go away after that, and simply become barbarians (with animosity towards your civ, say), that poses interesting gameplay options. But it's also really complicated.

    As an aside, Madoo, you probably need to scale back the Taiwan as terrorist assessment. "Secession" (even if you accept that that's what Taiwanese independence really is) doesn't mean "attack civilians indiscriminately" or "brutalize your own people". It's a huge jump to make that claim, and even the most pro-China people I know wouldn't say that. And while I accept some of your thoughts about the U.S. and UK, they remain fundamentally different regimes from Russia, China, Cambodia, etc. There have no doubt been indiscriminate attacks conducted against civilians, but the question is what measures are in place to rectify them. That, I think, is the true distinguishing characteristic. That's a political debate to be had elsewhere, but I bring it up because what would be interesting to me is whether you can "criminalize" the creation of partisans/insurgents through the UN.
     
  20. ZB2

    ZB2 New wave Ideology

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    'Terrorism' is a coined Bush word that Americans only just discovered in the dictionary in the past 6 years. Espionage is the correct term. And im all for poisoning water supply to decrease population, and sabbotage to destroy factories and buildings.

    Guerrilla warfare is too tactical to be included in a vast way in a strategy game. Guerilla being hit and run before taking return fire can be seen as Cavalry attacking and retreating from combat. So its allready present.

    Priveteers will hopefully attack without revealing Civ identity so thats sorted out, A land equivelant would be of USE, but im not for it, Bad memories from Civ3
     

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