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gueirila warfare/terroism

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by hossam, Jun 6, 2007.

  1. ZB2

    ZB2 New wave Ideology

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    espionage is all you need in this game, what can a new slider called 'finace terror' do that this new espionage cant? its a war game anyway haha
     
  2. winddbourne

    winddbourne Prince

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    I agree with ZB2 that espionage is all we need, so long as all the relevant options are included. In civ II espionage included: Stealing technology, buying cities, poisoning resevoirs, and bringing in suitcase A-bombs.

    With spies now being financed from the same money source as research Tech Stealing is a no brainer. It's just a question of what ELSE they bring back, and what new things they add to the game.

    Honestly I'm expecting the espionage abilities to be quite powerful, and include a lot of shady things. Privateers might be "funded" from the espionage slider, so might guerrillas. You might also be able to "force" other governments to do things via infiltratin and propaganda.

    Can't wait to see what all is really included.
     
  3. hossam

    hossam Deity

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    i think partisans should be regular units they will be cheap and weak but have the hide ability and if they attack using the hide ability they get a bonus or something.
     
  4. hossam

    hossam Deity

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    oh yes about the whiner if you dont like terrorism and its in the game just choose the pacifism civic and wage a war on terror like good old bush
     
  5. ZB2

    ZB2 New wave Ideology

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    is that refering to me?

    0o0

    a guirrilla unit doesnt get penatlies for moving through jungles and hills and cannot capture cities sounds like a viable land equivilent to the priveteer.

    Espionage slider funding the priviteers is a good mention, id mod that to the game if its not like that. good idea haha .:goodjob:
     
  6. Grimz101

    Grimz101 King

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    I did like Partisians in civilization II, it meant that you couldnt steamroll a country, like you can in civIV, the only bad thing was one time in civilization II where i was in a 3 front war, and was taking out India the biggest but most technolodgically backwards country, and about halfway through because their partisians wouldnt attacked my combined arms stacks since they were too strong, they had like 100 partisians.. :O if they send them to my border to attack, i would have been toast!
     
  7. 1889

    1889 Mayor of H-Marker Lake

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    A guerilla unit would be the antitheses to guerilla warfare. The whole point of guerilla warfare is to not march around in large organized groups and try to control terrain.

    Running a secret war is lots of fun but spies sound like they may have been made too strong. I remember that a single spy and a bunch of cash could quickly conquer the world in Civ2. It was fun the first time but the game really suffered from such imballance.
     
  8. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    Well that was because spies could Buy cities and Civ2 had no Culture concept. I sounds like the Spies may be able to buy cities that Would revolt to you, by triggering a revolt. However, the fact is you would need a combo of Culture and Espionage to do that.
     
  9. 1889

    1889 Mayor of H-Marker Lake

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    Still sounds far too powerful and has no basis in reality but Firaxis has done a pretty good job so far so we'll have to wait and see how they balance it.
     
  10. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    Actually it sounds perfectly reasonable, For essentially all it is doing is acting as a way of speeding up culture flipping, at best a defensive manuever.
     
  11. chopstyx

    chopstyx Warlord

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    Imagine this:

    You’re winning the game, owning half the world and everyone is subordinate to you, then I dialog box pops up: “You have been assassinated. Game Over.”
     
  12. cybrxkhan

    cybrxkhan Asian Xwedodah

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    :lol: :lol:
     
  13. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    If you're a 6,000 year old godling, I hardly think a bullet is going to care you. Maybe if it was silver, coated in garlic and blessed by the Chief Clerics of twelve religions. And even then, it'd be a long shot. You'd probably just come back with your name spelled backwards. ("Hell, my name is Shogun... Awagukot.")
     
  14. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    Fortunately for you there are only seven religions.
     
  15. winddbourne

    winddbourne Prince

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    The espionage slider does seem to be an improvement on simply spending gold, especially since it effects both gold and research.

    Also "buying a city" was very realistic. The problem is that people confuse civilizations with countries.

    What is America doing when it sets up Mcdonalds, Walmart, a Rock/country station, and floods the area with missionaries? Let alone all the money we spend "Rebuilding" civilizations we've knocked down, influencing their government and giving them stuff they need to emulate OUR culture.

    We're buying those cities.

    I hope all the nifty espionage features are back, plus a lot more we've never seen before. Partisans, privateers, spies, suitcase bombs, poisoned water supplies, tech stealing, setting other players up . . . the works.

    And of course give me my secret treaties! I want to be able to bribe the other players into stabbing my "enemy" in the back without anyone knowing about it. Then I might actually start using embago before a war, or bribing enemies to declare war on someone I am NOT ready to fight just yet. It should cost a lot but . . . it would also be fun.

    And of course the computer needs to know HOW to use this stuff too. Half the reason spies were so powerful in civ II was because the computer never used them. Even when it was 100% cheaper for them to buy back their city then it was for me to take it in the first place.
     
  16. cybrxkhan

    cybrxkhan Asian Xwedodah

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    maybe they should have a random event like "your country is now ruled by a guy from Texas named [put name here or Bush]. you have eight turns to invade any country in the world without causing a massive world war"

    (after eight turns...) "game over"
     
  17. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    Yeah, the fact that civs acts as centralised nation-states with defined borders, national religions, nation-wide political and economic systems and national standing armies would do that.
     
  18. winddbourne

    winddbourne Prince

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    A nation isn't a civilization, a civilization is a general way of doing things shared by a large number of nations. Yes you could define "borders" and national religions for them for different time periods; the history books do this all the time, but it's an abstract thing.

    If we try to make it specific though the time scale and size is way off.

    We aren't directing "armies" we're directing many battles and skirmishes over hundreds and thousands of years. The time it takes to move a "warrior" early on is longer than the history of many nations. That warrior represents battles and entire wars for territory. Probably by multiple leaders, and countries over that huge span of time.

    In the end though one civilization wins, and another falls. Those warriors may be (and probably are) also fighting each other, but we don't show it in the game. No matter who won those battles it wouldn't matter. Civilization X still would hold the territory and have armies in that spot.

    There is no centralized government, no centralized economy, no single national religon. It's abstracted, and spread over WAY to large a time for that to be a viable way to think of it.

    In general a civilization favors one way of doing things and THAT is what effects the game. The "Sumerian" civilization may have a million "kingdoms" within it, but each of them have the same general types of civics, trade with each other, share a literary traditon, technology, and in general have the same set of religions one of which is probably dominant in the area.

    Saying civilizations (even in the game) act like centralized nation staes is like comparing a molocule of water to the ocean. They do share a lot of properties, but one is a lot larger and more complex than the other.
     
  19. magicalsushi

    magicalsushi Prince

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    I agree 100% with Windbourne. If 'civ' is exactly equivalent to 'nation' for the entire length of the game, then what on earth is going when you research Nationalism? Answer: your civ didn't understand the concept of a nation prior to researching it, and therefore 'civ' and 'nation' mean different things. Chances are, your civ was a disparate bunch of small kingdoms or city states, prior to developing the idea of Nationalism. Nationhood is a complicated idea, which is why it's a Renaissance tech.
     
  20. Chengora

    Chengora Chieftain

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    Not to march around in large groups - yes. Not to control terrain - no. The whole point of guerilla warfare is psychological/political - hearts and minds and all that. It was acquisition of territory - or more importantly the people in a territory - through military and political means. As such, I think guerillas should definitely be allowed to capture (or recapture) cities. Also, while the "invisible" aspects are interesting, how exactly would that be implemented?

    And as an aside that perhaps should be taken up elsewhere, whomever talked about nationalism, Civ 2 or 3 did nationalism well by tying it directly to a military unit (partisan). That's what nationalism is, an ideological organization based on the perceived value of the group/nation. Which was entirely different from the preceding feudal orders, which valued the system and, to a lesser extent, the state. Combined with the advent of firearms, it was a huge change.
     

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