[GS] Guide to fast Science Victory - Religious Russians

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Strategy & Tips' started by ATEX, Jul 11, 2020.

  1. ATEX

    ATEX Warlord

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    Some time ago I decided I wanted to see how fast I could do a SV. I was missing an updated guide on how to do this, so I ended up with a mix of tips from the forum and some youtube mixed with my own ideas. After some tries I got it down to a 157 turns win on standard size and speed. HOF settings, but not a HOF game as I save and load as I please, and had prior knowledge of the map. Below I will try to outline a guide for fast SV with the basis of the game.

    The main points:
    This strategy is based on Russia and Earth godess. My idea was that with Russias bias to tundra starts, earh godess will allow me very fast faith generation in tundra woods.
    turn 28 faith yield.PNG

    That would allow very fast expansions when combined with monumentallity and ancestral hall. Since Russia have extra tiles, and I get a builder for each new city, I could chop infrastructure very fast also with a Magnus tour in the cities with the most chops.

    Some general notes:
    From my reading I saw that space to expand is the number one limiting factor. But I dont see this issue. With lakes template I seem to get all the space I want 9 out of 10 games. The example game I use here is a bit extreme because it has spices on tundra Woods.

    To win a fast SV, you need basically 3 things. Enough science to finish the tree as fast as possible, enough gold(or faith) to buy 3 Spaceports and enough chops to chop laser stations. If you reach 20 cities, gold should be less of an issue as you have so much stuff to sell to the AI. In the Russia earth godess setup, chops will not be a problem as well, as you will have tundra woods plenty.

    The bottleneck is science. This I think will be true for almost all games in this beta. A common recomendation on the forum is to beeline to moon landing, use that to get to globalization, and you are good. This might be right for most games, but not if you are playing very fast. The way I see it, the fastest you can go, is to finish 1 tech per turn (Excluding the few scources of instant science like Fez). Your goal is therefore get as early as possible to the point where you can 1 turn techs, and keep 1-turning techs for the rest of the game. After globalization/amundsen this is easy, and you can end up with 3000+ spt. The problem is that it comes too late. You need to start 1-turning techs earlier. In this game I start 1-turning when I finish Kiwa at turn 108. After that I think I had maybe a couple of techs I spent 2 rounds on. Everything else is 1-turn.

    To be able to do this, you need almost all the boosts, that means you cant beeline, as you need the flexibility to shift to the techs you have boosted, and alternate between cheap and expensive ones. The fun thing is that you dont need to beeline to make it work. But it does require a lot of planning, and very strong culture. Otherwise you will be to slow.

    A good economy is also vital, as gold gives fleksibility. Many boosts you wont have time to hard build, so either chops or gold. For example 3 workshops. Some boosts have too high cost to fulfill. I think chemistry, electricity, advanced flight, advanced ballistics, Guidance systems and Telecommunications are the only ones I do not try to fulfill of the science boosts. You can still get them by great scientist boosts though.

    On the culture side I do not go for: Games and recreation, naval tradition, medival faires, mercantilism & guilds (as they require you to build com hub, which is too weak early game), Exploration, nationalism, capitalism, after idiology I have moon landing culture, so I boost only what I can get easy. Of course this is not written in stone. Some games will just not allow you some boosts.

    Regardless of what people like or not, a lot of the game revolves around planned chopping. Personally I think it requires a lot of thought and understanding to chop most efficently, so Im not sure it dumbs down the game.

    UI-Mods that give you info that exists in the game in a structured way is important! Maybe the most important is the one that shows you the gains from policies. This can be consulted every time you change policies.
    policies overview.PNG


    This game was before the changes to work ethics. That could possibly be even faster.

    Ancient era turn 0-50:


    The main goals:
    • Meet as many CSs as possible. Get 1 envoy in cultural ones.
    • Befriend all AIs. Send delegation the turn you meet them.and sell them all you can
    • Ensure enough points to get a golden age. If this fails, the game is failed.
    • Establish a religion and start accumulating as much faith as possible. (Earth godess, choral music and religious settlements)
    • Get 3-4 cities up and as much culture as possible.
    • Get Gov plaza and ancestral hall before mass settler exand
    Build order in my game was double scout, settler then holy site, monument then 2. settler for the cap. Then Gov plaza and Ancestral hall. City nr. 2 builds holy site, monument then a settler.

    I dont think it matters that much exactly what the build order is, as long as you get 1-2 extra cities out quickly, and some scouts out to meet AIs and CSs.

    Governors:
    As culture is the key to everything early game, I went with Pingala and his +1 culture per pop as the two first. Then Magnus with provision so you can buy settlers without losing pop. This might be bit of a trap as often you can expand faster by bying a settler in a pop 2 border city. But if Magnus is on tour, and close to the action I think it is good.

    Districts:
    2 holy cites to get the gov plaza discounted. Then focus on campuses and holy sites.

    Civics/techs:
    In the early game I juggle the techs to only complete the ones I need. Science seems to matter very little this early, and if you finish too many the distric cost goes up. Culture on the other hand is extremly important. The culture gives you access to Ancestral hall, and Political philosophy. Everything you need to expand quickly. Throughout the early/mid game culture is more important than science for early SV. You need it for cheap settlers, better workers, governments and science boosts.

    Wonders:
    I am very doubtful of the effect of many wonders as they have a high oportunity cost. However in this game I have exceptionally good production in the capital, so I built ToA and Oracle. Most games I would build neither, and Oracle Im pretty sure is not worth it. Finding a city with a desert tile to plan Pyramids is smart to just get as early as possible.

    Classical era turn 50-89:

    The main goals:
    Rapid expansion and planning key wonders and boosts. This is basically setting up for the next phase where your science and culture output should exlode. There is a balance about buying settlers or workers. As each settler also gives a worker after Ancestral Hall, so almost all faith should be saved for settlers. In this game I bought some workers with gold instead. This I think is worth it to connect resources to start selling it to the AI.

    As long as you got your golden age, you can now start spamming settlers by bying them with faith. In this game I got 1000 faith in the bank, and ancestral hall is up by the time I settle a wave of new cities.
    More or less all cities the aim should to be able to either place a 3+ Campus or grow to pop 10 to trigger rationalizm (Preferably both). Farms are underrated. You need housing and food to reach pop 10. Also tundra cities needs to grow to be usefull, so they need access to at least some good food tiles. Since 10 is such a magic number, beware of food chops. Often I will chop a jungle quite early to jump start a new city, but if I see that reaching 10 is hard, I save 2-3 food chops to get from 7/8 to 10. Remember that fast growth is faster placed and cheaper districts. Some cities will not get to pop 10 or 3+ Campus. That is fine. They are still worth it if you can chop a full campus.

    A note on military units. You need many of them for boosts, and they are usefull against barbarians and to avoid war. But you dont want to hard build, you want to upgrade ancient era units. Preferably have at least 2 wariors, 3 slingers, a spearman and three heavy chariots, and later 2 catapults. With upgrading those you can achive most boosts. Sea units I think is worse and more game dependant.

    Governors:

    Pingalas culture boost is important. Otherwise I dont think it matters that much.

    Districts:

    As many cities as possible with library and uni, and holy cites with shrine and temple. Holy sites are worth it because of choral music gives +6 culture per city. One city needs an entertainment district for colosseum.
    What districts to build.PNG

    Civics/Techs:

    Reformed Church is important as it will give cheaper workers/settlers, and Education for Unis. Otherwise I dont beeline if it means skipping boosts.

    Wonders:
    Get Pyramids. This is just so good, and the better the earlier you can get it.
    Plan Kilwa - and get suz of 2 cultural and 2 scientific CS either beforehand or with the 3 envoys from Kilwa. This is the most important wonder in the game by far. If possible it should go in your megacity.
    Plan Colluseum - Nice to have, but not essential.

    I dont know the number of cities you need, but the bulk of your science and culture comes from your disctricts, so I think at least 15-20 is needed. Also I think it is smart to have one megacity. Reaching pop 10&15 gives Civics boosts, but also Pingala and Kiwa benefits from a megacity. At turn 108 I got 33% of my culture output and 20% of my science output from 1 city. This megacity should have at least Pingala, Kiwa, full campus and theater district.
    yields of St. Peterburg 108.PNG


    Medieval Era turn 89-129:


    The main goals:
    • Main goal is to get to the point you can keep 1 turning techs.
    • Get all boosts that you can.
    • Get Magnus on tour

    In the next 20-30 turns your science should explode. You are chopping in libraries and unis. Finishing up Kilwa, getting suz of 2 science city states and getting access to rationalism. In total this will tripple your science output quite fast. And that is needed if you are to one turn techs. Together with planning the boosts and planning Magnus tour, this is the most important points.

    Cities that had magnus on tour will have reached 10 pop, so the question becomes what districts do they get? Campus and Holy site is still priority. Theater square next, but you will want 3 industrial zones to get 3 workshops and to power your cities. The rest will be hubs or harbours. Your space cities will ofc need encampment or harbour. I did not have time for it in my first spaceport city in this game.

    Towards the end of the era you need to have one chop city ready to go for lanching earth satelite and moon landing. That means having builders to chop, having Reyna with enough upgrades and gold to buy a space port.

    All cities should also have a farm on the highest possible appeal tile, so that you can replace them by neigbourghoods and get that sweet gold. At the end of the era some cities will start their Research labs as well.

    Governors:
    In this part of the game Amani and Liang can be placed, and Reyna needs to start her leveling up. As you need her ready to buy a spaceport.

    Districts:
    Still focus on getting Campuses, then holy sites and theater squares. Also 1 Aerodrome. So much of your yields comes from districts, so planning this is key.
    130 districts.PNG

    Civics/techs:
    Although I dont think you should beeline, aiming towards satelites should be the best way. A strong culture is still important to even have the chance to boost techs like Sanitation and Radio.

    Wonders:
    One of the things that separates this strategy from other SV-games is the Eifel tower(turn 125). This wonder serves several purposes. It boosts flight, gives another boost for faith production, and gives better yield when I start replacing farms with neigbourhoods. That is 4000 extra gold if you have 20 cities.


    Renaissace era 129-157

    The main goals:
    Win the game!

    In this stage of the game almost everything revolves around planning the end game timing. The most important point is getting the three spaceport cities up:

    City 1: A city for chopping 2 first projects (Sat+moon) - must have Magnus when chopping
    City 2: A city for using workers to boost 2 next projects (Mars&Exo) and chopping lasers - Must have Pingala and full harbour or campus
    City 3: A only for chopping lasers -Must have Magnus and full harbor or campus

    To be as fast as possible you also need tons of 1 charge builders!

    In my game I start the era with getting rocketry turn 130. Within a couple of turns I can buy my first spaceport and move off Reyna to the next spaceport city. It will be at least 10-15 turns before I can launch Mars Colony, so it is plenty of time to get enough money to buy another one. After researching nanotechnology there are yet another 10 turns before you have lasers and the need for your third Spaceport, so again you have enough time to get money to buy a third spaceport. In my game I acutally bought a fourth, just for fun, not that it mattered anything.

    Unless you have insane culture output, I dont think it is doable to boost the first two space projects with workers, as you need tier 3 government + Royal society. So those needs to be chopped.
    Martian colony and Exoplanet can be built mainly by builders. I think I used one chop for Exo. When it comes to the laser projects these needs to be chopped. With the boost from Synthetic Technocracy they are very efficent.

    I would reccomend to get 2 military engineers when you are building forts, so that they can run around building Railroads around Your final Space cities. You have to move a lot of workers around, so that helps. Also be sure to have Liang Close to get max charged Builders to use for the boost to mars+exo Projects.

    I tired some different strats on the actual chopping, but the fastest I got was to chop all power consuming chop the first turn and let the city power down. Then balancing the next projects between alu and power consuming so I could keep the city powered.

    Finished the exoplanet expedition on round 153 and game ends 157. That required finishing 16 lasers, and is probably not always possible. But getting the time down to 6-7 turns from Exo to winning should be fine.

    Governors:
    Doesnt matter. You just need to keep magnus and pingala in the right cities. And Reyna needs to move around to buy 3 space ports.

    Districts:
    Having enough gold to buy spaceports is key. Otherwise it doesnt matter much what you do at this point. Early in the era you want to keep the focus on Campuses and theater squares.
    157won.PNG

    Civics/techs:
    One-turning techs is still the most important. Towards the end you want to reach Syntethic techocracy as this makes builder charges and chops much better. I used Communism as my tier 3 government since I had so much gold. If Your gold is short, Democracy should be better.

    Wonders:
    Oxford will give you 2 free techs, and should be planned towards the end of the game. Amundsen-Scott is a significant boost to your science output, and has to be planned quite carefully as the placement restriction is severe. Also you want it the same turn as rapid deployment is finished, so it needs to be chopped or boosted by engineers or both.

    I hope this writeup can be helpful for those aiming to do a quick SV, and I appreciate feedback on what can be done to make it faster still. I know Kilwa is too late at 108! Shoutout to @young.carl.joung for wanting this forum to be about discussing and developing strats! I highly agree with that. Hope we didnt lose you! And ofc @Victoria and the rest of the forum for explaining so much about how the game works.



    If you want to play the game, the seed is:
    Map seed:2100288242
    Game seed:2100288241
    Game Version: 1.0.2.39
    Australia/Astec/Viking DLCs only

    I also put a turn 3 sav file.
     

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  2. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Choral music is gone. New strategy required!
     
  3. ATEX

    ATEX Warlord

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    Haha. Well that was two wasted hours of writing then! Outdated before I even got to post it... I can make New one for work ethics instead. It seems very strong also.
     
  4. ATEX

    ATEX Warlord

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    Where is this info @Victoria? Cant find anywhere where Choral Music is removed?
     
  5. Buktu

    Buktu Prince

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    Choral Music is still in the game. I picked it yesterday and since the updated beliefs in the last patch it is unlikely to remove it from the game any time soon. I guess it was meant like an AI picked Choral Music, your whole gameplan is obsolete now.
     
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  6. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    I thought it went with the last patch? I must be mad, my bad.
     
  7. lotrmith

    lotrmith King

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    You're in luck as Peter then, because excepting an AI stonehenge rush you will have 1st prophet and pick of Choral Music!
     
  8. igorsrs

    igorsrs Chieftain

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    A few points:
    • Lavras have another trick you can use: you get a land tile everytime you spend a great person in its city. You can abuse this to make you megacity aquire some extra wood tiles beyond the third tile range. Bulb all your great writers there, and relocate the works to other cities, this gives you extra chops for space projects later.
    • All those great writers you get in the early game, but can't use (yet) can work as scouts all the way to the mid game. They are better than normal scouts as they have 4 movement (no promotions though) and they won't die by barbarians, they just teleport back to the closest city. You can also use them to help in "barb wars", specially against clasical era horsemen (those are scarier than AIs, for me).
    • Don't discard Earth Goddess for "Dance+Ethics" so quickly... As I said in the other thread, Work Ethics seems good but there is only so much science you can make out of production. Earth goddess with choral music may still be better to finish faster.
    • The updated Feed the World is also much stronger, now it gives 4 housing, 3 food from shrines, for the cost of slower civics early (feudalism, reformed church). I tried it briefly, it does have potential.
    Also, many of tricks in this guide made me curious about trying a sea heavy game with Maori, no holy sites, some Marae, and early Conservation (for faith+production combo). I completelly forgot about using Eiffel to boost the pantheon... :shake:
    My guess is that Maori could get SVs down to the 160's too (with a lucky map, of course).
     
  9. lotrmith

    lotrmith King

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    As you emphasize Holy Sites with shrines/temples for Choral Music, what difference positive or negative do you think Dance of the Aurora would have made versus your choice of Earth Goddess?
     
  10. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Your guess is correct. Any civ’s game is map dependant, especially when it comes to other civs.
    I could write a guide on Kupe SV but meh. 160 is not easy, Kupe floats at the top of a class below s class for SV being held back by culture.
    Certainly Marae’s are not that good (Adjacency issues) and you really need good CS/natural wonders to make it workable... and good science adjacency. Harbour’s are Kupe’s Holy site replacement but I do feel free Inquiry is a trap for a really fast victory.
    Culture pushing is so important, Your production just rocks with fast culture.... and that means skipping culture traps. A double adjacency Harbor card may be nice for shipyards but slowing down feudalism, mercantilism and colonisation is not so good
    It really is quite a different SV game that takes a bit of getting used to. Especially great production cities with loads of late chop ability. No issues with Golden ages (+4 for Marae and +8 for Toa) but weirdly Maraes are just not good enough.
     
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  11. cylenalag

    cylenalag Chieftain

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    We would appreciate it. :)
     
  12. ATEX

    ATEX Warlord

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    I would love to se more guides on different approaches to fast SV, even if they cannot reach wins in the 160s. Kupe would be fun @Victoria, but also Harald or Aztec. Or any warmongering fast SV. @igorsrs The trick with the GW is very nice for the supercity yes. Scouting I never tried. That is a good tip. In the Russian games you can also sell of Great Works that you cant place for a long time as you will have plenty.

    @lotrmith I agree With Earth godess still maybe being the stronger choice, but Im unsure. I need to test more. Feed the world needs to be tested as well, but the biggest problem is that the game has few good reliable scources of culture. Culture is the key… So Earth godess+choral has that going for it. Also the faith output starts of so high, and is high throughout the game With Earth Godess. And faith is versiatile as it is basically production you can move around. Produce it in one town and buy a Settler or a worker in another. Work ethics makes the game easier to play as you can actually hard build many of the things you need for boosts, and there is less stress on getting Magnus to all the cities to chop. The game Im currently playing, Magnus tours the non tundra cities, and the tundra cities just hard build what they need after one chop to get the Larva because of Work Ethics.
     
  13. Minou

    Minou King

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    Choral Music seems to always be picked second by the AIs (Feed the World seems to be first). That being said, it is often possible to get access to Choral Music even if you don't found a religion. IN my current game, a neighboring AI helpfully sent missionaries with Choral Music Catholicism to my lands. You can guarantee access by conquering a city with the religion, though this may be very slow if it is founded far away.
     
  14. playshogi

    playshogi Emperor

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    Russia + work ethic + voidsingers. At the medieval you can get a 20% of faith income boost to gold, science and culture. My last Russia game, I already had 200 faith per turn at the Medieval. Plus, there are slots in the monuments for great works, so all those great writers can be used without building theater squares and build campuses instead.
     
  15. Hogimus

    Hogimus Chieftain

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    What map type did you use? Lakes? I have never tried that one. Is it just one big landmass with lakes throughout? I usually always play Continents, Continents and Islands, or Pangea. I was trying last night to get a good game going, but I kept getting maps with almost no tundra. Is there a map type people have a lot of success with when using Russia?
     
  16. lotrmith

    lotrmith King

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    Lakes and Inland Sea have pretty much solid land across the entire northern and Southern map borders.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2020
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  17. ATEX

    ATEX Warlord

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    Lakes map is great. Ive had really good maps on that template at least.
     
  18. JesseS

    JesseS Warlord

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    Nice finish and guide! Choral music, feed the world, and work ethic all seem like good choices for this strategy and I bet the optimal one will shift game to game, depending on the map (cultural CS availability, food, available chops/production). Interesting strategy to use Eiffel Tower to enhance the farms to neighborhoods gold.

    Couple questions:
    • Were you doing any early chopping in the Capitol to accelerate ancestral hall?
    • Did you build the Forbidden City or Big Ben?
    • How much slower do you think this strategy would be without those initial tundra spice tiles in the Capitol?
    • Do you think you would be able to generate enough faith to buy spaceports with Moksha (probably using gold for builder and settler expansion after turn 90-100)?
     
  19. lotrmith

    lotrmith King

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    Without the spices I expect significantly slower by at least 10+ turns.
     
  20. ATEX

    ATEX Warlord

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    Thanks, I think you are right about the faiths.

    • No chopping I think. Maybe one deer. But remember that capitol has very strong production from early on, and since Im buying the Settlers, I need the AH mostly to get the extra Builder. That affects timing. When I buy the first wave I send the settlers out and wait for AH to actually settle them. Sometimes I use those extra turns to settle a bit further off.
    • Nope. I think the cost was too high for them to be worth it.
    • I agree With @lotrmith. You need to work tiles With Food early, so less tundra tiles to work. So that would slow it down quite a bit. Having a usfull first world congress, or not the Worst possible Future Tech tree layout would drag it the other way again.
    • Yes, but I dont think it matters. Remember from turn 108 at least Im only 1- turning techs, and Space race is done in 5 turns. So basically everything I do after I start 1-turning is irellevant, as it cannot be optimized further. I think the correct way to analyze fast SV now is how do you move the point where you start 1-turning from 108-area, to maybe 70-80s. That would speed up the game a lot. Even this map with optimal tech tree would be in the 140s, so if I can improve the early game, maybe we are talking 130s... I dont know yet, but 140s Im convinced we will see if someone is willing to put the effort in.
     
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