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Gun Powder units

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by Revan1000, Mar 25, 2009.

  1. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    There sort of are. The Luchuirp were originally gnomes in Kael's D&D games. He sas that they can still be considered gnomes, but that FfH's gnomes are but a subset of its dwarves.
     
  2. VSPavlov

    VSPavlov Wizard of the Toast

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    Not for gamey reasons, that's for sure - but for design ones. Hippus are mercenaries, not a Mongolic-style horde - so they would adapt their tactics for any new inventions, especially military and powerful. It's hard to find lore reasons, why Hippus lack Gunpowder unit - and if one gives them a gunpowder uhin, it should be a mounted unit, of course (because Hippus give all the best thingies to their cavalry).
     
  3. Thunder_Gr

    Thunder_Gr Emperor

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    You propably know, but, anyway. Lurchuip are the gnomes that were "mutated" or "camuflaged" into/as Dwarves.

    EDIT: I should pay more attention to the page counter. MC has already answered this...
     
  4. Humakty

    Humakty Happy Goblin

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    Well, your reasoning can apply to all civs, why would the Clan not develop firearms ? Most civs in the world knowing about it would try and develop them. So why close this option ? Similarly, why can't an ork decide to build a library, if he thinks it is the only way to compete ?

    Why can't the calab build council of elders if they decide so ? After all vampirism is all about elders. Really old and wise elders.

    Lorewise, I think you can justify most anything. And if you just wan't to make the Hippus really ubber, just tell so, don't invent pretexts. After all, a mercenary civ shouldn't even have acces to libraries, they're just soldiers, not a bunch of weaklings spending their time reading dusty books.
     
  5. WarKirby

    WarKirby Arty person

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    Correct me if I'm wrong here.

    Hippus have a sum total of....1 unique unit.
    0 unique buildings.
    And one unique trait, which makes horses faster.

    Other than that, hippus are bland and normal. Every civ has knights, horsemen, etc. The Hippus ones are slightly better, is all.
    I find them to be pretty underdeveloped as a race, and boring to play.
     
  6. Fenboy

    Fenboy King

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    I suspect the whole "some civs not being able to train arquebusiers" thing is for several reasons.

    1: To encourage aggressive play by those civilisations, all of whom are supposed to be warmongers, with the possible exception of the Calabim. If you can't just spam Arquebuses for defence, your options are more limited.

    2: To balance out some of the more powerful civs. Calabim for example. I think the large numbers of units removed from the Khazad is another example.

    3: All the civs in question are supposed to be somewhat primitive, or at least savage. Weakening them at tier 4 by removing the most technological unit seems to follow on from that. Bear in mind that none save Mercurians can build cannons either.

    At least, that's are what I think the reasoning behind it is.

    edit: I agree with WarKirby. Hippus seem a little bland in the unit selection. Didn't they use to have unique units for Knights back in Light?
     
  7. Humakty

    Humakty Happy Goblin

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    Maybe they seem bland, but they are still one of the most potent civ. Just because of this one trait you despise so much. By itself it tranforms Hippus into a powerfull warmonger, as +1 move and +10 % withdrawal (I think those numbers are correct) on all mounted units makes de facto those units behave as UU's. It's just that the names are the same, but still their horsemen are better, their chariots are better....etc

    it's true clan as many UUs, but goblin ones are crap, and the game is won or lost long before you reach ogre UUs, which are especially slow now, making the Clan lack in top notch rapid units.
    So having MORE UUs, Clan cavalry line is still much much weaker than Hippus's one, who only have one UU.
     
  8. Thunder_Gr

    Thunder_Gr Emperor

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    :lol:
    Slightly better
    :lol:

    Tasunke->Raider,Aggressive + Hippus->Horselords = A major pain, and a very big player in the game...
     
  9. VSPavlov

    VSPavlov Wizard of the Toast

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    By the way, I agree, that Hippus (as I see them) shouldn't have access to libraries, Great Library, Catacomb Librarius and high-level magic users.

    And it's obvious for me, why Clan can't use firearms - it's as logical, as Doviello lack of advanced metal weaponry; they're too narrowminded, not innovative enough to use something so modern. I don't believe even in ork books... but Hippus should be more adaptive.

    And the only reasons, why Calabim have no Elder council should be lore, not gamey ones (I don't believe, that Councils can really affect balance ;). I suppose, that elder Calabim - the ones, powerful enough, to be considered elders - just won't stand one another for more than several hours ;-)
     
  10. Luckmann

    Luckmann Esusian Epicure

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    Oi, do you have ANY idea how crowded crypts can get? YOU spend 500 years with that snot-nosed Flauros and his court of self-important cattle-jesters and see how inclined YOU are to spend quality time with your "family". :mad:
     
  11. SwordofStriker

    SwordofStriker Prince

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    Actually the Illians get the higher tech units like arquebusiers and cannons as well. I'm playing a game as Auric right now. The Khazad get cannons too. In fact their cannon unit is a unique unit is it not?
     
  12. Kyroshill

    Kyroshill Huh?

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    Before I started playing with the "No AI" settings I hated gunpowder because it seemed that anyone who could build them, spammed them instead of building any other units.

    When I was arguing for removing gunpowder entirely, I only felt that one race could be seen using gunpowder at all.... and that was the Khazad. They're underground all the time, so are much likely to find the materials needed. Plus, they would want to use explosives to help with mining, not just military apps (maybe they'd have no mil apps), so that actually makes sense to me.
     
  13. Tacgnol

    Tacgnol Warlord

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    You know, there is a certain amount of irony in how the Orcs, whose entire culture is dedicated to the goddess of fire, are one of the only races unable to use firearms.
     
  14. KillerClowns

    KillerClowns Emperor

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    Maybe they're just too busy with the "fire" half.
    I can't think of any gameplay niche it would fill, but I would seriously love to see (kamikaze?) Goblin Sappers... that seems a very Clannish use of gunpowder.
     
  15. PotatoOverdose

    PotatoOverdose Prince

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    ah sappers, my favorite unit from the warcraft series:love: Maybe, instead of musketmen, the clan could get sappers that use the same mechanic as pyrezombies (which are effectively similar to sappers gameplay-wise) and fireballs. That would be so fun, but probably won't happen because of the weekly "Nerf Pyre Zombies" whine threads.
     
  16. Iceciro

    Iceciro Special Ability: Decimate

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    Hmmm. Sounds like an idea I can steal for my modmodmod. If I can get models, anyways.
     
  17. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    Isn't it possible to rip units out of Warcraft? I believe that's where Yvain came from, though I may be horribly wrong.
     
  18. Tacgnol

    Tacgnol Warlord

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    Dunno how easy it is, but that's definitely where Yvain's from, no question.

    Might be WoW though, but I'd think WoW would be a lot harder to steal from than WC3.
     
  19. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    WoW's models are too high detail for Civ. It SHOULD be relatively easy to extract them with Game Extractor, but I don't even have the game installed currently so I can't really check and see.
     
  20. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    I believe Yvain was taken from the Warhammer mod for Civ IV, which shares at least one member of our art team.
     

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