Gun Powder units

[Luckmann]

What kinda ticks me is that Yvain is so dissimilar from the other treants. If we could have one of the other treants extracted from WC3 and ported over to replace the current treants, that'd be awesome.

 

[Emptiness]

I prefer the current Treants. I don't really like playing FfH2 and seeing Warcraft art. If anything, Yvain should be replaced with custom art to make him more like the other Treants (although more powerful looking, of course).

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I don't like seeing that kind of art in FfH either. It seems less kind of cartoonish, and not serious enough for Erebus.

Personally, I'd rather see Yvain go back to being an Elf. It might also be nice to make him a Satyr-druid, making the "favorite son of Cernunnos" thing literal instead of just figurative.

 

[KillerClowns]

I don't like seeing that kind of art in FfH either. It seems less kind of cartoonish, and not serious enough for Erebus...

I think it fits Yvain nicely, though I'd prefer if he were a satyr/elf who got turned into a treant by some means or another, for quite a few reasons you've mentioned before. But he is described as being an eccentric wanderer, and that is a very eccentric form.

 

[deadliver]

Oi, do you have ANY idea how crowded crypts can get? YOU spend 500 years with that snot-nosed Flauros and his court of self-important cattle-jesters and see how inclined YOU are to spend quality time with your "family".

This is simple. Remember the Calabim still rule a human population which are used as little more than cattle....not much room for Elders to emerge.

 

[Emptiness]

Personally, I'd rather see Yvain go back to being an Elf. It might also be nice to make him a Satyr-druid, making the "favorite son of Cernunnos" thing literal instead of just figurative.

That also sounds acceptable.

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As for the whole Calabim-Elder Council thing, I think it's a case of balance dictating that they don't get it. The Calabim seem to do just fine tech-wise without the ability to build it. The fact that the Calabim can't build a building called "Elder Council" doesn't mean that there are no Calabim elders, nor does it mean that the Calabim don't have councils.

 

[deadliver]

That also sounds acceptable.

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As for the whole Calabim-Elder Council thing, I think it's a case of balance dictating that they don't get it. The Calabim seem to do just fine tech-wise without the ability to build it. The fact that the Calabim can't build a building called "Elder Council" doesn't mean that there are no Calabim elders, nor does it mean that the Calabim don't have councils.

However it does make sense if you do not read too deeply into it that they do not have Elder Councils. Also the background pretty much lays out that only the two vamp leaders exercise judgement, with the aristocracy basically a buffer between them and the outside world. Such an arrogant attitude would preclude relying on elder councils, especially if those councils were made up of older/elder humans.

 

[Tasunke]

hmm, if we spent all our money on "guns" we wouldn't have any left for the bribes. Our tried and true tactics with the horse should be enough to win the day. I say only give guns to our best marksmen, but make them damned good guns.

mechanic: give hippus a national unit gunhorse in the slot of arquebusiers, with the 4 national limit of course. Perhaps slightly stronger or just a badass gun version of the horse archer.

 

[JonathanStrange]

Yvain is such a cool hero, but while I kind of think he'd be better portrayed as an Elf hero, I've grown accustomed to what he looks like now. If he were changed, I'd at least like Yvain to continue being powerful looking.

 

[Tasunke]

are infernals currently able to build arquebusiers?

 

[Fenboy]

I just checked in Worldbuilder, and it seems the ability of the Infernal to build Arquebusiers was taken out some time ago. Like the Mercurians, they can still build Cannons though.

 

[Dora190]

hmm, if we spent all our money on "guns" we wouldn't have any left for the bribes. Our tried and true tactics with the horse should be enough to win the day. I say only give guns to our best marksmen, but make them damned good guns.

mechanic: give hippus a national unit gunhorse in the slot of arquebusiers, with the 4 national limit of course. Perhaps slightly stronger or just a badass gun version of the horse archer.

Of course there is another reason why gunmen on horseback don't fit. The time line of FFH2 ends with the introduction of Gunpowder. These are incredibly primitive weapons by gunpowder stds. They were big, cumbersome and prone to failure and very inaccurate. They only reason they became popular was because they were very easy to use, no years of training and skill required. Frankly I don't think the cannons should be as good as they are and I don't think the gunpowder units should be any more effective than an archer, but they should be cheap. One reason Pikes came back into fashion around the same time as the black powder units. Pikes -> kill cavalry, Guns -> useful against pikes (Assuming its wasn't raining then all bets were off).

Frankly CIV4 has completely skipped the first 3-400 years of gunpowder development and jumped in to the 18th century (muskeeters and safe Cannon) Useable firearms appeared way before them. Anyone interested should look up what a handgun actually was.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Frankly CIV4 has completely skipped the first 3-400 years of gunpowder development and jumped in to the 18th century (muskeeters and safe Cannon) Useable firearms appeared way before them.

Civ4 Musketmen are supposed to be 17th century muskets, I think.

 

[Dora190]

Civ4 Musketmen are supposed to be 17th century muskets, I think.

which does prove my point

 

[Lone Wolf]

Frankly CIV4 has completely skipped the first 3-400 years of gunpowder development and jumped in to the 18th century

View Post
Civ4 Musketmen are supposed to be 17th century muskets, I think.

which does prove my point

???

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[Dora190]

Gunpowder was first used in the 13th century. Not the 17th.

 

[Hawkwood]

Cannons were first used in the 14th century, hand cannons in the 15th. Though I do agree that the current gunpowder units are stronger than they should be, not only with regards to historical accuracy, giving them a national limit seem to be popular among modmods, so I'm assuming they are also a bit overpowered in their current state.

 

[Tacgnol]

I really don't think they're too strong, Mithril Champions are better against melee and at city attack, all arquebuses really do is allow civs without mithril to have a fighting chance once the endgame techs start getting researched, as well as providing a cheap unit available with no buildings, but Champions are nearly always a better choice in a city with mithril and a training yard.

 

[Tasunke]

I think a weaker n cheaper arquebus would be nice ... although I am fine with current implementation. Given their current strength, I think a limit of 10-20 would suffice ... maybe less but on a giant map maybe 10 is too few, heh.

 

[Dora190]

Cannons were first used in the 14th century, hand cannons in the 15th. Though I do agree that the current gunpowder units are stronger than they should be, not only with regards to historical accuracy, giving them a national limit seem to be popular among modmods, so I'm assuming they are also a bit overpowered in their current state.

Sorry not paying attention here, first rudimentary cannons appeared in far east in the late 13th Century. Europe was later.