Gunpowder in medeival 2...

[kibbles]

Still confused with this a little... HOW SHOULD I USE GUNPOWDER?!?! I read a tutorial on TWC, they mentioned there is a "bug" with the rank fire of musketeers, but that kingdoms "new" gunpowder units had it fixed. So what does that mean? And which new units?

 

[LightSpectra]

Still confused with this a little... HOW SHOULD I USE GUNPOWDER?!?! I read a tutorial on TWC, they mentioned there is a "bug" with the rank fire of musketeers, but that kingdoms "new" gunpowder units had it fixed. So what does that mean? And which new units?

It seems their horrible inaccuracy is inevitable. I tested out maxed out Ottoman Janissaries in various situations and full-line valley shots only took out three or four soldiers each round.

But what they are good for is routing enemy units, so try doing a cavalry charge with your muskets.

 

[Maniacal]

The early gunpowder units were not very useful for actually killing a lot of people. Mostly they were just scary.

There was a bug in that the musketeers would fire at random or something, I don't remember, but they were not very useful, Kingdoms supposedly fixed it, and new units, well, new units intriduced in kingdoms obviously. I don't understand what your problem is, your question doesn't fit in with hat happens in game.

 

[Phrossack]

Wait- are you saying that they're inaccurate in Kingdoms or vanilla? I have vanilla, and the gunners' accuracy is unbelievably good! But yeah, they suffer from a lot of bugs. For example, if they take losses, they will stop shooting until you tell them to stop their current orders, even if they have none.

 

[Maniacal]

When you install Kingdoms, does it patch the grand campaign in Medieval 2 as well?

I don't know as I switched to playing Stainless Steel by that time.

 

[kibbles]

Well, what I have noticed, when I am playing Kingdoms the front rank kneels after firing and begins reloading, allowing the second rank to fire. In vanilla, musketeers would always start this annoying rotation animation that would take a long time, barely allowing them to squeeze in two volleys before having to retreat. I am also still wondering about a pike and musket combination... I guess my point for this thread is to try and to innovate better ways to use gunpowder, if this is a pointless idea, please don't hurt me!

 

[Maniacal]

Get the Stainless Steel mod or another mod that has fixed up the gunpowder units. They still won't be terribly effective but they will be a LOT better.

 

[Dachs]

The early gunpowder units were not very useful for actually killing a lot of people. Mostly they were just scary.

PrinceScamp's lack of knowledge about the Italian Wars makes little Gonzalo Fernández de Córdoba cry.

 

[Phrossack]

kibbles, a pike-and-shot combo is indeed devastating. Form your gunners into a line two men deep, then put your pikemen a few inches behind them. I use it quite a bit. Cavalry may run the gauntlet of gunfire, only to be impaled by waiting pikes. I can see why the Spanish loved the Tercio so!

Also, put basilisks and ribaults on one flank, and let them fire at will.

 

[Maniacal]

PrinceScamp's lack of knowledge about the Italian Wars makes little Gonzalo Fernández de Córdoba cry.

Those were not until 1494. I was referring to the eary units which are the ones I used in the game except in custom battles (I nvever got past 1400 iirc).

 

[kibbles]

Get the Stainless Steel mod or another mod that has fixed up the gunpowder units. They still won't be terribly effective but they will be a LOT better.

So Stainless Steel fixes the rank fire bug?

Edit: another thought, wouldn't it be ideal to place ribaults(very tightly) in between your troops, that way during a charge there is only one guy and he is shielded by his own the ribualt. I will have to try this!

 

[Maniacal]

So Stainless Steel fixes the rank fire bug?

Edit: another thought, wouldn't it be ideal to place ribaults(very tightly) in between your troops, that way during a charge there is only one guy and he is shielded by his own the ribualt. I will have to try this!

When threatened the artillery crew will try to run in front of the machnie and shield it with their incredibly inneffective corpses, iirc. Also he will still be vulnerable to missile fire. If you try that make sure the ribault is slightly back a couple of ranks or so or perhaps counter-cahrge the enemy as soon as they start charging your line (and make sure to turn off your artillery so they don't shoot your own troops by mistake).

Stainless Steel I beleive fixes that bug, and a whole lot of other bugs.

 

[kibbles]

Ok, so i am in my Portugal campaign, turn 220 (I already lost my victory conditions) and of course I have all my late techs unlocked (with the exception of the musketeer). But I LOVE the Portuguese Arquebusier! They get a sweet armor upgrade and when you have an alchemists, watch out! These guys haul ***! Another thing about gunpowder though, my general made an announcement before one battle that the enemy lacked heavily armed soldiers and so would suffer much under gunfire. I always thought that bullets pretty much did the same thing to every unit? That's why it is so effective against armor. But as the battle began my Arquebusiers did indeed mow them down VERY effectively them losing about 1/3 of their guys before even reaching my line. O yes one more thing. I did find the pike and gun combo pretty effective, but instead of putting them behind the pikemen I put them right in front but within the pikes.

 

[Phrossack]

You lost, but can keep playing? Cool! I never really bother to try to win, anyway.

But yes, there are few things I love more than well-armored missile troops, and Portuguese Arqubusiers fit into that category. They're just great, especially when used in concert with Aventuros in partial plate, basilisks, ribaults, the awesome Jinetes, etc. Portugal's superb!

 

[Maniacal]

Strong armour was not entirely uneffective against gunpowder weapons, especially smaller and lighter ones, like pistols.

 

[Flying Pig]

Use them against elite armoured infantry.

 

[aronnax]

I use gunpowder units very little because they have a short range and run out of bullets quickly. Plus they hurt themselves. So I got with Archers all the time.

 

[Flying Pig]

Awesome archers are good, but if you can use guns to batter his elite armoured troops then you're onto a winner - but the Retinue Longbows from England are probably my favorite unit.

 

[Dachs]

Sphendonetai are better than all of em combined.

 

[Flying Pig]

Remind me which ones they are?