gunpowder

[King of Town]

Do you think they should bring old saltpeter back in order to have gunpowder units? I know I wouldn't mind it especialy if in exchange you could get a bonus for musketmen to make them more useful. Anyone know why they toook it away in the first place? I kinda liked it because that was one resource that if you didn't have it in your area, you had to go on a an all out bloody rampage to get, or else you'd get left behind and your army would get ripped to shreads.

 

[Bast]

For sure. I love Gunpowder and usually beeline to it. This would only make it more powerful.

 

[PibbZ]

Im glad they removed it, was one of the few resources i hated back in the days.

 

[Quildavyr]

I hate saltpeter too.Once i played on huge map.There were 14 civilizations, but only 4 Saltpeter source.Only two civ had it.I lost the game
I don't want it back!!

 

[LuKo]

Gunpowder units are really important and World maps are too small to have another resource.

 

[Bast]

Actually you guys are right. Having saltpeter means that you have to you might have to go to war to get gunpowder units. That would be awful!

What I like to do is go to war WITH gunpowder.

No to saltpeter.

 

[King of Town]

I don't know, I just think it would sort of add a realistic twist. Plus a good way to get revenge. If Monty has been annoying you with his units, or if mansa has been outreching everyone but they don't have saltpeter and you do it would turn the tables. All of the sudden you'd have grenadiers, and cavalry while the poor backward army led by monty would still have macemen. That's how some civs got taken out in the real world.

 

[HiroHito]

yeah but welcome to a game anyway.

 

[FuRRie]

I'd prefer to see some of the resources that are in the scenario's before they add Saltpeter

 

[kazapp]

Adding a few new resources ain't a bad idea, but there should be a real reason for doing so, adding something substantial to the game.

Adding must-haves are a bad decision, however. Salpeter didn't add anything to the game once you had it, it only meant defeat if you didn't. If it must be in Civ4, let it give a 10% discount on producing gunpowder units or something that doesn't completely hose the civs without. (Or change the power balance between Cavalry and Rifleman along the Chariot and Axeman lines, allowing survival without Copper).

It should be resources that enhance certain styles of gameplay, preferably styles that are believed to be underpowered today.

If, for example, the play style of having lots of unhappy citizens was considered underused, you could add the Poppy Flowers resource to the game... ;-)

 

[King of Town]

So should iron, copper, aluminum, coal, oil, and horses be removed?

 

[Soneji]

Yes, I don't think you should just be able to build gunpowder units out of fresh air when you need the iron to build the maces etc

I'm all up for it! Just another condition that needs to be met for victory!

 

[Lord Neil]

They removed the saltpeter resource for two reasons:
1) Musketmen were a big step up from pikeman and if you didnt have them your oponent would have a massive opportunety to attack you and cause major damadge with Cavalry.
2) Saltpeter was very common so they didn't need it to be realisic.

note: saltpeter only allowed musketmen, cavalry, a couple naval units, and I think a building.

 

[Fridge]

King of Town...

The difference with copper, iron, horses etc. is when these appear there's usually still room to expand and found cities nearby to grab them. By the time gunpowder (and therefore Saltpetre) appears, the whole map has usually been settled, so it's just pure luck who gets the resource and who doesn't.

 

[Soneji]

Exact same could be said for aluminium, uranium etc

 

[jdurg]

To be truthful, you really don't "need" saltpeter in order to produce gunpowder. Many resourceful chemists through the years have figured out ways to generate the potassium nitrate needed for the gunpowder through various other means. In many cases they even made it so that potassium nitrate wasn't needed at all and some other oxidizer was used.

If they were to make saltpeter a required resource for gunpowder units, I think it should be obsoleted with some other "advance". (I'm at work right now so I can't recall when chemistry comes into play).

 

[King of Town]

[

note: saltpeter only allowed musketmen, cavalry, a couple naval units, and I think a building.[/QUOTE]


I had forgot this was true, and this could be accounted for as the advance made as chemists come up with new ways to replace saltpeter. This would still give an advantage to those who had the saltpeter, but not particularly a game changing one.

 

[RedRalph]

In C3, if you didnt have saltpeter or a very weak neighbour who did, the game was in effect over. It was a pain, even in c4, you're almost always going to have at least Iron or Copper, which means you can get horses, which means you can usually get whatever other resource you need... no resource should be so critical the game isnt worth playing if you dont have it

 

[Swedishguy]

PLEASE DON'T bring gunpowder back to the game. Copper, cool. Iron, a bit over-powered but it works. Horses, a good back-up plan if you lack iron. Saltpeter, a resource that encourages unfairness, and on a whole less fun.

My two cents.

 

[CivDude86]

You can't make aluminium from crap can you. If anything it should require horses. And we might as well bring back rubber while were at it and add a % chance that these resources will move to somewhere else each turn. This game would be a lot easier if they couldn't build muskets and infantry.